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Ive heard about LS1 Brakes from a 4th gen most people say they are great I’ve never tried them are they really all that much better than say ...if I restored the stock calipers rotors and pads and lines with brand new everything I’ve tested that before and it’s was decent better than I expected...Honestly I’m looking for Excellent Brake feel and performance not just ...”Okay it’s better than it was”...So I just want to know before I go grab 4th gen Brakes from the junkyard is this a waste of time just get brembos? Or Go For it?...
I understand you can’t compare seats to Brakes but hear me out ...I tried 4th gen seats and it’s was Terrible it was worse than stock seats and someone told me they will be better they make my back hurt honestly
Buy 5th gen SS 4 piston brembos and never have to upgrade your brakes again. My brake build for 4 pistons all around with 18x9 wheels is gonna cost me only 4k. The OEM brakes I built to absolute max were not bad by third-gen standards. But I spent a grand on parts to get it there. Drilled and slotted rotors, Stainless/PFE/Kevlar flex hoses, fancy pads, etc. the late model GM upgrades are decent but it's hard to fit anything great under the 16s.
There is a lot of options out there. You can get used Brembos (I paid $400 shipped for my rotors and calipers off a 15k mile car) or junkyard LS1 brakes (Super cheap) to piece a set together to save big. I would just go all out. Don't end up like I was when I was newer to thirdgens. OEM is trash. While the cheap late model upgrades are not bad, you will find yourself thinking "only if I saved $200 more to get the Vette, brembos, etc".
As to how good LS1's are I have them both front and rear with drilled and slotted rotors. Also did the stiffer of the 2 springs ( forget the #of the spring) for the proportioning valve. The brakes are well balanced with just a very little hint of the rears locking up before the fronts. Since I'm still using 16" wheels 5th gen ou newer options are out.
I can run an entire 20 min track night session on a 2.1 mile 11 turn road course without fade issues. Running late times averaging 1:53.
Last edited by daferris; 03-21-2019 at 08:04 AM.
Reason: Spelling
Personally I'm going with the C6 Z51 setup that way down the road I can always replace the calipers with a 4 piston replacement if I want to take it to the next level.
Spending a lot of money on brakes doesn't necessarily equal more. The tires have only so much grip with the road. Having massively powerful brakes can make the brakes overly touchy with a lack of feedback, and be way too easy to lock up. 3000 lb-ft of total braking torque is enough for a typical street performance car. Grippier street tires can hold about 3500 lb-ft torque. Track tires will hold about 4000 lb-ft.
Racers want smaller diameter brakes with less inertia for quicker acceleration and deceleration. Heat is managed by rotor mass, not the diameter. For example, a race car might be equipped with 12" rotor but the rotor will be much thicker than your street car. Modern brakes from LS powered cars have rotors that are about 1-1/4" thick on the front and between 1 to 1-1/4" thick on the rear.
By my calculations with 100 lbs force on the brake pedal, and a stock 3rd gen "NB code" disc-disc prop valve....
* The 4th gen Camaro LS1 brakes front & rear generate around 3100 lb-ft torque. The balance will be about 80/20% braking front and rear.
* 5th gen Camaro SS brakes front & rear generate about 3350 lb-ft torque. Balance will be the same with 80/20% front and rear.
* C6 Z06 Corvette brakes front & rear don't generate any more braking torque than the 4th gen Camaro LS1, and the balance is about the same.
* C6 HD Z51 brakes front & rear produce a little less braking torque than the C6 Z06 and Camaro LS1, and balance is very slightly improved.
* '09-13 CTS-V brakes front & rear generate about 3450 lb-ft braking torque. Makes sense, it's a heavy 4-door sedan. Balance is about 80/20%.
* By comparison, Wilwood Superlite 6P front and 4P rear generate a whopping 4000 lb-ft braking force with better balance than any of the OE brakes.
* My own car has C6 Corvette front and 3rd gen 1LE rear that produces a lousy 2700 lb-ft torque and a horrible 82/18% ratio. Just swapping out rear brakes for Wilwood Dynalite will change that to 3000 lb-ft with a freaking awesome 73/27% ratio.
Ive had LS-1 brakes for about 4K miles. They are a significant step up from 92's and as Scott from BBU told me, they are what should have been put on the car from the factory. I agree with him but they are pretty far from anything like track ready. If you want good, go LS, if you want great get better stuff. My 2 cents.
Spending a lot of money on brakes doesn't necessarily equal more. The tires have only so much grip with the road. Having massively powerful brakes can make the brakes overly touchy with a lack of feedback, and be way too easy to lock up. 3000 lb-ft of total braking torque is enough for a typical street performance car. Grippier street tires can hold about 3500 lb-ft torque. Track tires will hold about 4000 lb-ft.
Racers want smaller diameter brakes with less inertia for quicker acceleration and deceleration. Heat is managed by rotor mass, not the diameter. For example, a race car might be equipped with 12" rotor but the rotor will be much thicker than your street car. Modern brakes from LS powered cars have rotors that are about 1-1/4" thick on the front and between 1 to 1-1/4" thick on the rear.
By my calculations with 100 lbs force on the brake pedal, and a stock 3rd gen "NB code" disc-disc prop valve....
* The 4th gen Camaro LS1 brakes front & rear generate around 3100 lb-ft torque. The balance will be about 80/20% braking front and rear.
* 5th gen Camaro SS brakes front & rear generate about 3350 lb-ft torque. Balance will be the same with 80/20% front and rear.
* C6 Z06 Corvette brakes front & rear don't generate any more braking torque than the 4th gen Camaro LS1, and the balance is about the same.
* C6 HD Z51 brakes front & rear produce a little less braking torque than the C6 Z06 and Camaro LS1, and balance is very slightly improved.
* '09-13 CTS-V brakes front & rear generate about 3450 lb-ft braking torque. Makes sense, it's a heavy 4-door sedan. Balance is about 80/20%.
* By comparison, Wilwood Superlite 6P front and 4P rear generate a whopping 4000 lb-ft braking force with better balance than any of the OE brakes.
* My own car has C6 Corvette front and 3rd gen 1LE rear that produces a lousy 2700 lb-ft torque and a horrible 82/18% ratio. Just swapping out rear brakes for Wilwood Dynalite will change that to 3000 lb-ft with a freaking awesome 73/27% ratio.
Not to hijack but I have the baer 2 piston brakes (88-96 vette) and 4thgen 98-02 brakes in the rear on my originally drum rear car. Should i invest in an aftermarket prop valve?
i went with 5th gen camaro brembos as well. my car is only going to be a nice day, summer car so i figured i'd spend a little more on brakes because this will probably be the only set of brakes i'll ever have to install. didn't make sense to buy LS1 brakes now and then upgrade later. i painted the calipers to match the car with G2 paint. turned out pretty good. car isn't driveable yet so can't comment on how the brakes feel / work. hoping to get the car running this summer.
Not to hijack but I have the baer 2 piston brakes (88-96 vette) and 4thgen 98-02 brakes in the rear on my originally drum rear car. Should i invest in an aftermarket prop valve?
Not sure of the specifics of your front brakes. I am assuming it is the standard C4 Corvette brakes with 12" rotor and 1.5 inch pistons?
You've got about 2480 lb-ft braking torque with a 74/26% ratio. I don't think you need any more rear brake, especially if you still have high travel suspension (like stock). My guess is an aftermarket prop valve would not be beneficial to you.
This is with an "NB code" prop valve. If you have a different code valve then I can run calculations if you're willing to remove the plunger and spring and to take a few measurements for me.
Do any of you guys have Wilwood Brakes
If I wanted to use those calipers is it the same as any other Big brake upgrade by getting the spindles brackets and pads and stuff
Contact Scott at bigbrakeupgrade@gmail.com and tell him what you would like to do. He has brake upgrades that work with Wilwood calipers, Z06 calipers, Brembo, C5/C6, and he can help you outline what you might want.
I think I have settled on Baer's Track 4 kit for the front and Baer's SS4 kit for the rear. I can get both shipped from Jegs for $4,102.68. That is including tax.
My question at this time is am I just paying to much for this setup that I could get similar elsewhere or is this pretty reasonable?
What I like about the Baer kits is that the front comes assembled with modified spindles and rear comes with emergency brake. Both kits seem to be a pretty simple install. The only modification is drilling out some existing holes bigger in the rear flange.
I will be putting these on a 1991 Camaro Z28 305 TPI with rear drums and 19" Variant Helium rims.
I will also utilize putting the stronger spring in the stock proportion valve to get the rears to do their share.
I think I have settled on Baer's Track 4 kit for the front and Baer's SS4 kit for the rear. I can get both shipped from Jegs for $4,102.68. That is including tax.
My question at this time is am I just paying to much for this setup that I could get similar elsewhere or is this pretty reasonable?
What I like about the Baer kits is that the front comes assembled with modified spindles and rear comes with emergency brake. Both kits seem to be a pretty simple install. The only modification is drilling out some existing holes bigger in the rear flange.
I will be putting these on a 1991 Camaro Z28 305 TPI with rear drums and 19" Variant Helium rims.
I will also utilize putting the stronger spring in the stock proportion valve to get the rears to do their share.
I think I am going to go with the Brembo setup below from Scott at bigbrakeupgrade. His setup is bigger than the Baer kits I was looking at (13.6" rotors in front and 13.3" rotors in rear compared to 13" font/12" rear) and cheaper, especially since I will do the front spindle modification myself.
Anyone thinking of upgrading their brakes, I highly recommend you reach out to Scott. He is very responsive to emails and patient with you while you try to figure out what you want and how you want to do it!
I'll post before and after pics once project is complete.
03-20-2019, 09:50 PM
