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Would open element air cleaner be better than stock?
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Would open element air cleaner be better than stock?
I have a 1982 quadrajet carbed firebird with the stock snorkel (not the cold air one) and I wanted an open element air cleaner for more air flow. I don’t have the one that goes up in front of the radiatior so I’m getting warm air anyway. Would I see an increase in performance? I was reading a different thread and somebody said one would notice a flat spot just off the bottom at low rpms is that true? I am planning to cap the vacuum for the heat riser thing and get a valve cover breather
heres the filter https://www.summitracing.com/parts/s...iABEgJ6L_D_BwE
Re: Would open element air cleaner be better than stock?
Originally Posted by 82Firebird5.0
I have a 1982 quadrajet carbed firebird with the stock snorkel (not the cold air one) and I wanted an open element air cleaner for more air flow. I don’t have the one that goes up in front of the radiatior so I’m getting warm air anyway. Would I see an increase in performance? I was reading a different thread and somebody said one would notice a flat spot just off the bottom at low rpms is that true? I am planning to cap the vacuum for the heat riser thing and get a valve cover breather
heres the filter https://www.summitracing.com/parts/s...iABEgJ6L_D_BwE
The only thing that will change will be an increase in air intake noise. If you disable the heat riser, the engine will be harder to keep running when cold, and if you live in a smog-check state, it may cause you to fail the check.
Disconnecting this and that on an older ecm-controlled engine expecting an increase in performance usually doesn't end well; your best bet is to leave that stock engine stock.
Re: Would open element air cleaner be better than stock?
You could put the scoop/duct back on... The carb can flow better than the single snorkel, so yeah, a higher flow air cleaner would support more power. Question is whether the engine needs more air. With most of the smogtastic V8s, you really can't go wrong. If you want to change it, go for it.
Re: Would open element air cleaner be better than stock?
I recommend leaving it stock. I have been running an open air element for years. The previous owner ditched all the stock components, but if I had them they would all go back on. I recently changed it over to a stock style intake, because the only thing an open element does for you is suck in hot dirty air off the engine, plus give you a little more intake noise. No performance benefit whatsoever.
Re: Would open element air cleaner be better than stock?
Originally Posted by Drew
You could put the scoop/duct back on... The carb can flow better than the single snorkel, so yeah, a higher flow air cleaner would support more power. Question is whether the engine needs more air. With most of the smogtastic V8s, you really can't go wrong. If you want to change it, go for it.
Re: Would open element air cleaner be better than stock?
Originally Posted by Aaron R.
I recommend leaving it stock. I have been running an open air element for years. The previous owner ditched all the stock components, but if I had them they would all go back on. I recently changed it over to a stock style intake, because the only thing an open element does for you is suck in hot dirty air off the engine, plus give you a little more intake noise. No performance benefit whatsoever.
you didn’t notice any decrease in power by switching back? It seems like the stock air cleaner would be a lot more restrictive. I am putting a cam and intake if that makes a difference
Re: Would open element air cleaner be better than stock?
Originally Posted by ironwill
The only thing that will change will be an increase in air intake noise. If you disable the heat riser, the engine will be harder to keep running when cold, and if you live in a smog-check state, it may cause you to fail the check.
Disconnecting this and that on an older ecm-controlled engine expecting an increase in performance usually doesn't end well; your best bet is to leave that stock engine stock.
even if I plug the vacuum line and get a breather for the valve cover? My choke kick down isn’t working right I need to get that figured out
Re: Would open element air cleaner be better than stock?
Originally Posted by 82Firebird5.0
im getting a cam, intake, exhaust for it
Might help, might not. Motortrend's Engine Masters did an episode where they tested a bunch of styles of air cleaner and the single snorkel style like yours killed a hundred horsepower, of course that was on a 750 horsepower engine. They figured from comparing the dyno charts a single snorkel style air cleaner was not a restriction until over ~300 hp. That's not a true scientific test, and they were using a MOPAR air cleaner, but I would imagine a stock F-body single snorkel would be similar.
The concern over "hot" air for the intake might be an issue with fuel injection systems which deliver fuel after the intake runners. In carbs and throttle body injection where the fuel is being introduced ahead of the runners, the process of fuel atomization will lower the temperature of the intake charge dramatically. Carb icing while usually not a problem on passenger vehicles, is a real thing.
Re: Would open element air cleaner be better than stock?
Originally Posted by 82Firebird5.0
im getting a cam, intake, exhaust for it
If you are, then you will need to increase the amount of air available, the stock snorkel is not where that's at. Properly filtered air from the outside of the engine compartment is where you need to get your air from, and you don't need to wait for your other stuff to be put on your motor. You may not notice any benefit by putting the air system on before, but you will definitely notice the improvement after the cam,, intake and exhaust system.
Re: Would open element air cleaner be better than stock?
I'd opt for cold Ram Air over an open element, if you have a spare single snorkle you can always steal the snorkle off one to make a dual on the other or buy one premade after market.. Ram Air you can feel with speed increase even on a stock motor..
Re: Would open element air cleaner be better than stock?
Most of the fabricated dual snorkel setups you see with a second single snorkel tacked on are still far from the factory dual snorkel. The single snorkel necks down so much that even two of them isn't close to the size of the snorkels on the HO setup. Either look in a junkyard for older GM cars with much larger snorkels (cars/trucks), or look to an aftermarket air cleaner with snorkels you can plumb to a cool area away from the engine compartment. Or live with the open element air cleaner that is tried and true.
There's really no good answer, because there's only so much you can cram under the hood of a thirdgen. The $20 chrome classic is a fine compromise for it's cost. Something like the HO Z28 air cleaner is fantastic if you have a Camaro, but on a Firebird you lose most of the benefit without the Camaro headlight pockets. Any ram air effect even with the Camaro setup on a Camaro isn't worth what most ducted setups would cost. It makes a difference, but not hundreds of dollars worth of difference.
Re: Would open element air cleaner be better than stock?
Regarding the snorkel and scoops of the L-69 air cleaner vs the LG4/L03 air cleaner, it's not just the single vs dual snorkels, Each scoop/snorkel on the L69 is larger than the base ones. I had an excellent picture comparing the two on my 1987 IROC thread, but it appears photosuckit stole them. They should be on my home computer, I'll look for them later.
Re: Would open element air cleaner be better than stock?
Oh man, down the 80's air cleaner rabbit hole we go... If you want to make the most of the stock air cleaner...
Get the stock duct and scoop, along with the preheater tube and put it back to stock so you're at least getting the cold weather/cold start benefits and cool/ram air effect.
You don't hear about it much anymore, but the carbed cars have a backfire/flame arrester tack welded to the inside of the air cleaner. At your own peril, you can use a chisel to break the welds and remove the arrestor and gain some additional flow.
Air cleaner with arrester present. Compare to the TBI air cleaner in the previous pic that doesn't have said arrestor.
Another early 90's trick is to find a full size Chevy with the taller air filter and salvage the lid, which allows you to run an inch taller full size Chevy air filter. Just keep it mind, it might not fit under your hood.
But ultimately, all of the above will come short of the stock Z28 HO aircleaner, or a $20 chrome open air cleaner (when the engine is cool) for performance. The lid-flip was always too ******* to actually be seen doing. The worst of all worlds.
Re: Would open element air cleaner be better than stock?
Originally Posted by chazman
Regarding the snorkel and scoops of the L-69 air cleaner vs the LG4/L03 air cleaner, it's not just the single vs dual snorkels, Each scoop/snorkel on the L69 is larger than the base ones.
That's what I was getting at about most of the fabbed versions shared over the years. The HO dual snorkels are each about 4 times the size of the stock single snorkel at their narrowest points. It wouldn't even be worth the trouble to add a second single snorkel to the LG4/L03 air cleaner, you'd have to have about a half dozen snorkels added on to equal the stock L69 setup.
Re: Would open element air cleaner be better than stock?
Originally Posted by Drew
That's what I was getting at about most of the fabbed versions shared over the years. The HO dual snorkels are each about 4 times the size of the stock single snorkel at their narrowest points. It wouldn't even be worth the trouble to add a second single snorkel to the LG4/L03 air cleaner, you'd have to have about a half dozen snorkels added on to equal the stock L69 setup.
Re: Would open element air cleaner be better than stock?
Originally Posted by Drew
That's what I was getting at about most of the fabbed versions shared over the years. The HO dual snorkels are each about 4 times the size of the stock single snorkel at their narrowest points. It wouldn't even be worth the trouble to add a second single snorkel to the LG4/L03 air cleaner, you'd have to have about a half dozen snorkels added on to equal the stock L69 setup.
Re: Would open element air cleaner be better than stock?
Doubling the GM 1.5" opening should be more than enough for a stocker motor according to https://www.ramairbox.com/flowtest.html
Ram Air Box does offer repros of the H.O. scoops and hoses, Mod works great on an old '65 Buick WildCat 425
Re: Would open element air cleaner be better than stock?
Originally Posted by Camaro86IrocZ
Doubling the GM 1.5" opening should be more than enough for a stocker motor according to https://www.ramairbox.com/flowtest.html
Ram Air Box does offer repros of the H.O. scoops and hoses, Mod works great on an old '65 Buick WildCat 425
Re: Would open element air cleaner be better than stock?
Originally Posted by Camaro86IrocZ
I'd opt for cold Ram Air over an open element, if you have a spare single snorkle you can always steal the snorkle off one to make a dual on the other or buy one premade after market.. Ram Air you can feel with speed increase even on a stock motor..
I agree I did the same on my 88 350. I made one out of some pvc piping and a 4 inch k&n cold air filter. I cut a hole in the hood and made my own ram air tunnel for it works great with shorty headers and three inch dual exhaust from flange to turn downs at rear. I just need to upgrade from my throttle body for more fuel a different intake and better flowing heads.
Re: Would open element air cleaner be better than stock?
Originally Posted by Drew
Oh man, down the 80's air cleaner rabbit hole we go... If you want to make the most of the stock air cleaner...
Get the stock duct and scoop, along with the preheater tube and put it back to stock so you're at least getting the cold weather/cold start benefits and cool/ram air effect.
You don't hear about it much anymore, but the carbed cars have a backfire/flame arrester tack welded to the inside of the air cleaner. At your own peril, you can use a chisel to break the welds and remove the arrestor and gain some additional flow.
Air cleaner with arrester present. Compare to the TBI air cleaner in the previous pic that doesn't have said arrestor.
Another early 90's trick is to find a full size Chevy with the taller air filter and salvage the lid, which allows you to run an inch taller full size Chevy air filter. Just keep it mind, it might not fit under your hood.
But ultimately, all of the above will come short of the stock Z28 HO aircleaner, or a $20 chrome open air cleaner (when the engine is cool) for performance. The lid-flip was always too ******* to actually be seen doing. The worst of all worlds.
mine never came with a scoop this is the factory setup. I don’t have a lot of money to throw around I just was wondering if the open element would be better than what I have as it only costs $30
Re: Would open element air cleaner be better than stock?
Originally Posted by Drew
Most of the fabricated dual snorkel setups you see with a second single snorkel tacked on are still far from the factory dual snorkel. The single snorkel necks down so much that even two of them isn't close to the size of the snorkels on the HO setup. Either look in a junkyard for older GM cars with much larger snorkels (cars/trucks), or look to an aftermarket air cleaner with snorkels you can plumb to a cool area away from the engine compartment. Or live with the open element air cleaner that is tried and true.
There's really no good answer, because there's only so much you can cram under the hood of a thirdgen. The $20 chrome classic is a fine compromise for it's cost. Something like the HO Z28 air cleaner is fantastic if you have a Camaro, but on a Firebird you lose most of the benefit without the Camaro headlight pockets. Any ram air effect even with the Camaro setup on a Camaro isn't worth what most ducted setups would cost. It makes a difference, but not hundreds of dollars worth of difference.
yeah I don’t have a lot to spend so even if it’s not ideal it should help a little bit. I can’t even afford a different exhaust
Re: Would open element air cleaner be better than stock?
Originally Posted by Camaro86IrocZ
I'd opt for cold Ram Air over an open element, if you have a spare single snorkle you can always steal the snorkle off one to make a dual on the other or buy one premade after market.. Ram Air you can feel with speed increase even on a stock motor..
I’ve got an 82 firebird so I don’t really have room for a ram air and I’d rather not start cutting things either. I just wondered if a open element would be an improvement or is there any issues that it could cause like a drop in power at certain rpms or something. (I’m getting a cam, intake and eventually exhaust
Re: Would open element air cleaner be better than stock?
Originally Posted by 82Firebird5.0
does that actually work? Lol that’s what my auto shop teacher said too I just was worried about sucking in more dirt
It actually does work and has been proven on engine dyno runs.
Originally Posted by 82Firebird5.0
I’ve got an 82 firebird so I don’t really have room for a ram air and I’d rather not start cutting things either. I just wondered if a open element would be an improvement or is there any issues that it could cause like a drop in power at certain rpms or something. (I’m getting a cam, intake and eventually exhaust
Just get the open element. The handful of horsepower you might potentially lose vs a "cold air intake" you will never feel anyway.
Re: Would open element air cleaner be better than stock?
Originally Posted by 82Firebird5.0
mine never came with a scoop this is the factory setup. I don’t have a lot of money to throw around I just was wondering if the open element would be better than what I have as it only costs $30
The scoop might be gone now, but it was there when the car was new.
Seat of the pants, if you want to feel and hear, ie perceive an actual change, the chrome open element type is your best bang for the buck. The perception is that it makes the car faster because of placebo effect, plus the noise increase, and to a lesser effect - a mild performance gain at low temps.
Nothing else is as likely to fool you as much.
As far as actually making the car faster? Not enough to worry about. But it'll seem like night and day.
Re: Would open element air cleaner be better than stock?
Originally Posted by chazman
I don't think you'd be sucking in more dirt. The filter will still be there.
My butt dyno says 0-9 extra horsepower and better sound, too.
Well it's free, so why not... But this isn't a rusted out 79 Ferrrd Bronco. P-jammie pants might be the comfiest attire on the planet, I'm still going to put on clean jeans to go to Walmart, even if I do have the flu, haven't slept in 5 days, and feel like the walking dead. Know what I mean?
Re: Would open element air cleaner be better than stock?
Originally Posted by Drew
The scoop might be gone now, but it was there when the car was new.
Seat of the pants, if you want to feel and hear, ie perceive an actual change, the chrome open element type is your best bang for the buck. The perception is that it makes the car faster because of placebo effect, plus the noise increase, and to a lesser effect - a mild performance gain at low temps.
Nothing else is as likely to fool you as much.
As far as actually making the car faster? Not enough to worry about. But it'll seem like night and day.
I just found out my car has an aftermarket AC compressor and it appears that it causes a clearance issue and makes it so the snorkel wouldn’t fit. I think maybe it was removed but I’m not sure
12-04-2019, 07:21 PM
