Hubes

Im just wondering what is the diameter of a stock wonderbar, and is it solid or hollow? thanks

DJP87Z28

A stamped piece of sheet steel. Nothing special about the stock STEERING BOX SUPPORT.

1brd2brd3brd4

I take it you dont like the term "Wonder bar"LOL

FYRCHKN

I think the op was referring to the actual bar that bolts up to the sway bar mounts and runs from frame rail to frame rail across the front of the car.....I take it you're referring to the stamped triangle piece, right?


I don't know what the stock diameter was, but I made mine out of 1" tubing with 1/4" plate for the mounting tabs.

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

I am amused at the name, especially since many members crow about how wonderful (pun intended) their car performs after installation. The fact is that the brace was/is a BandAid to prevent cracks in the steering box area. In a blind test, most drivers wouldn't have a clue if the brace were installed or not. It was certainly never intended to be the "performance" part that it's become in recent years.

JamesC

FYRCHKN

That's exactly why I made mine....to try to help prevent any future damage. It's definitely nothing like installing a STB.

racing geek

iTrader: (5)

I know the tube is hollow but I'll post up the measurements tomorrow morning.

skiroulertx447

it says on tds it improves handling more than a stb, but most of it is probably physchological. I just ordered one along with a door hinge repair kit. So I will find out this spring if it changes anything.

lonsal

iTrader: (2)

OEM Stering brace is hollow .75" in diameter.

Lon

micktroup

I installed a Wonderbar from TDS about a year ago. The difference was NIGHT AND DAY! It was obvious going out the driveway as the car did NOT creak and groan over the usual dip- I know because I tried it with AND without the Wonderbar.
I followed with a STB from BMR and while it improved things further, it was not as DRAMATIC an improvement as the Wonderbar.
Also, at speed, the front end felt tighter AND there was a noticeable reduction in the number of creaks and rattles we are used to.
FINALLY, the TDS unit is a breeze to install- the 3rd bolt hole enables you to bolt it up and THEN swing the sway bar and bushings up as a seperate task- much better than other units that require 3 hands for easy installation!

travishenry

any pics of the wonder bar on the cars.

micktroup

Should have asked me YESTERDAY! I had the car on the rack installing LCAs and panhard bar. I will see what I can do tomorrow...

racing geek

iTrader: (5)

Sorry, I didn't have time this morning. The wonder bar I have in my basement has next to no rust on it so that didn't cause inaccuracy. The mounting flang is 1/8" thick, and the bar is 3/4" diameter with a wall thickness of 1/8".

Hope this helps,
Mike

travishenry

ok cool just wanted to see how it fits. No biggie.

krisb410

iTrader: (9)

There are tons of pics on the board already. I did a


https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...erbar-car.html

there are plenty of other threads

Hubes

thanks guys

FueledSoul

iTrader: (18)

a radio that improves handling?

krisb410

iTrader: (9)

Took me a second before I got it.

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

JamesC

DJP87Z28

Reason for nickname: You wonder what that bar dose.....

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

I think the "discovery" of the Wonderbar occurred here on TGO when members found out that the IROC was equipped with it and other thirdgens weren't.

I may be one of the first members to actually buy an after market piece, a Global West version, on 10/18/99 (I also purchased their SFC's a bit later). At that time, as far as I recall, Global West was the only manufacturer. Since info on TGO and other thirdgen sites has piqued interest in the intervening years, other manufacturers have jumped on the bandwagon, and the Wonderbar was somehow transformed from a simple brace protecting a vulnerable area into a performance piece. Whatever your feelings about it, simple brace or performance piece, the Wonderbar "is" a valuable addition to any thirdgen. Just don't except too much.

JamesC

91_5.7_TPI

iTrader: (2)

I wouldn't say that it made the car handle any better or anything of that nature, but it did seem to tighten up the front end of the car. Steering seemed somewhat more responsive and it just seemed 'firmer'.

krisb410

iTrader: (9)

FueledSoul

iTrader: (18)

Wasn't it introduce during SCCA because of the cornering forces involved that the box, mounts, bolts etc would brake and or flex the frame rails to a degree under heavy loads? thats why its named the "steering brace" because it corrected the problems?

DJP87Z28

Nothing to do with racing. It was the then new 16x8 wheels & 245/50/16 tires that put the stress (possible cracking) on the steering box mounting. GM's bandaid fix was the added brace across the front of the rails.

Anyone that thinks it firms up the car is justifying the money he spent for it. Or empty wallet feeling.

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

The following is from How to Tune and Modify your 1982-1998 Camaro by Jason Scott:

"The problem stems from high forces transmitted from the steering box to the chassis, especially under low-speed cornering, such as when maneuvering around a shopping mall parking lot. Fat performance tires present a great deal of resistance at low speeds, which imparts considerable stress into the steering system, and ultimately attempts to rip the steering box from its mounting surface--especially during "full-lock" turns, where steering torque is greatest. Over time, these forces weaken the chassis surface around the steering box and can result in torn metal.

"Whether the chassis is weakened or torn at the steering box, the result is the same--steering actions are delayed while the chassis flexes, leading to unresponsive and erratic steering. Ironically, though the damage stems from low-speed steering, the resulting problem is far more serious at high speeds than low ones.

"It is possible to repair the damaged area, though the best solution is to avoid the problem in the first place by installing a brace that reinforces the steering box mounting area."

A little more meaningless history for the fun of it: Another tidbit that I found amusing along the way was the frenzy over the Wonderbar once it was "discovered". I'd see used pieces of rusty junk selling for $50 or $60 on e-bay--when they were still available from GM for around $34. (E-bay and the uninformed are a match made in the nether regions!)

JamesC

91_5.7_TPI

iTrader: (2)

If this is part of the problem the steering brace corrects, doesn't it stand to reason that installing one would negate that problem therefore improving the feel of the steering?

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

If there is a problem, I'd think so, which is why I believe that many who claim such a "night and day" difference after install had a torn and/or weakened chassis to begin with. If that's true, however, perhaps repair would be better in the long run than than trying to reinforce a weakened area after the fact. Anyway

JamesC

lonsal

iTrader: (2)

The brace is meant to be used to prevent the steering gear box/frame cracking problem. If your front subframe is cracked get it repaired. Don't use the brace as a bandaid in lieu of repairing it.

Lon

91_5.7_TPI

iTrader: (2)

Mine's not cracked. I installed the wonder bar years ago, and thought the feeling of the steering was a little different.
Then about a year ago, it did crack. Got it welded up about six months ago. That's why it's not cracked lol.

Mark in Maine

Does anyone know how to go about fabricating one of these things? Doesn't look like there is much to it - end plates and a tube - does someone have a drawing or instructions that can be followed to make a steering brace?

krisb410

iTrader: (9)

They are so cheap it's not worth the hassle to make one.

micktroup

Dude, $55 at Top Down Solutions, POWDERCOATED and ready to install!! What is your time worth?

chevyracingrox

I made mine out of square tubing we have laying around. just measure the distance between the frame rails where it mounts and weld little mounting tabs on it. very simple. mine was free.

Mark in Maine

I'm learning how to fabricate, just thought it might be a good simple project for the experience - you're right, though - they are pretty cheap to just buy . . .

chevyracingrox

they're not that cheap. unless you call $60 cheap. i don't. just make one, its an easy project, especially since your starting to learn fabricating.

krisb410

iTrader: (9)

Man, if $60 makes or breaks you, what are you doing owning a 3rd gen 3rd gens can nickle and dime you

chevyracingrox

$60 can buy a lot of gas. I wouldn't spend it on a wonderbar, there are so many things that you can do with a third gen for $60 besides a little part that does so little its effect can be brought into question. I'm just saying.

krisb410

iTrader: (9)

Well, what's cheaper? Wonder bar, or having the "frame" welded up and repaired? These cars are getting up there in age.

chevyracingrox

if your really convinced about the frame cracking I'm just saying making your own would save money that could be used for something else. if you make your own it still does the same job as the $60 one.

91_5.7_TPI

iTrader: (2)

If you can fabricate and have the stuff, go for it. But, yeah, $60 is cheap for the insurance it gives you, especially compared to $750 shocks, or $600 brakes, or $1500 stereo, or a few grand in paint and body....

Guest

Since everyone has hit the nail on the head already about the wonderbars intended origination, nothing further on that fact.

However, I have stated on here years ago that IF you install one and DO IN FACT notice a difference in steering response, you are already suffering from chassis fatigue. Not necessaraly a cracked chassis, but fatigued flexing metal from years of atrition that could and generally will result in faliure.

GM designed this bar for the larger tire IROCs to prevent the chassis from fatiguing and then cracking over the years.

Conclusion: I would highly suggest that if you did install one and you did notice "a big difference" in steering feel, you take your car down and have the frame further braced and welded becasue they will even crack WITH a steering brace when older and fatigued.

I had a fatastic integrity chassis. When I installed one, I felt absolutely no difference.

Dean

edit: best way I can describe this is adding one now with a noticible difference is like putting the car back to how it was new WITHOUT one. You basically want the chassis stiff without one and then addd one to help keep the chassis integrity over the next 20 years.

91_5.7_TPI

iTrader: (2)

I agree. I noticed a difference with mine when I installed it a few years ago. Then, the area around the steering box (the two pieces of sheet metal welded together) went ahead and split anyway. Fixed that this fall.

92RS_Ttop

iTrader: (3)

I fabbed and installed my own steering brace/wonderbar when I rebuilt the front end of my camaro. I had to replace the entire front frame section as well as the frame rail on the driver's side back to the crossmember. I figured it would be good "added insurance." I made mine out of a piece of solid .75" round bar steel with 3/16" mounting plates on the ends. The worst part was cutting the plates and making sure I got the holes lined up right for the bolts. I had to pay for the steel as I didn't have it laying around, and it cost me all of $30. That's better than half the price of the aftermarket ones when you include shipping, and I enjoy fabbing my own stuff. I also enjoy saving money as I don't have a lot to spend on upgrades for the car since my wife stays at home with the kids. The more money I save on one area of the car is money I can spend on other areas, like a V8 swap or shaving the door handles.

krisb - Are you saying that to own a thirdgen you should be a millionaire or have a 6 figure salary?? There are a lot of teenage owners and people with families on this site that can't afford to fix the car and spend money upgrading it as well. I didn't think these cars were in the same price/cost class as the firstgens were. And to answer your question of which would be cheaper, welding the frame or buying a wonderbar - I already have a welder so welding the frame would be free vs. paying for an aftermarket or fabbed wondberbar.

krisb410

iTrader: (9)

No, I am not saying that you you need to be a millionaire . I am just saying, what's cheaper/easier for most people. A $60 part, or taking it to a welder to fix/repair, and probably end up getting one. We all know how much all the little things can add up to.

You are an exception, because you own a welder and can do the repair and fabrication yourself. UNLIKE most, and I quote, "teenage owners and people with families on this site", who do not have the proper tools or time to fabricate parts.

JeremyNYR

iTrader: (2)

I'm sure the aftermarket ones are great and we want to support the sponsors and all... but the most economical option is to grab one at a junkyard. I picked one up in decent condition years ago and I'm sure I paid under $10 for it.... cleaned it up and resprayed it black and it looks like new. When you go to pay for it just call it a steering brace though, "wonderbar" makes the junkyard owner think it's worth a little more than a "steering brace". While you're at it, you can also say it's for a Cavalier to knock off a couple more bucks.

92RS_Ttop

iTrader: (3)

I agree that its easier to just buy the parts already made. Personally, I have always been of the opinion that its better to do it yourself than pay someone to do it. To me, it's better to spend $300-$350 for the welder, mask, gloves, gas bottle, steel, etc to fab your own parts than to pay someone $60+shipping for a part. If you want to learn to fab your own parts or do your own mods, it will pay off in the long run. In fact, I didn't own a welder till I owned my Camaro. The wonderbar was the first thing I ever fabbed for it.

I freely admit that I am always looking for the cheapest option, even when I think I've already found it. It's what allows me to do this kind of stuff on such a limited budget.

If, as Mark says, he is learning to fab his own stuff, this is a great project to start out on. It's very simple to do, and unlike some things *cough* 10-foot wings and cheesy body kits *cough* it actually is a useful improvement to our cars. I don't want to see someone discouraged from doing things themselves. Even if you screw it up and end up buying one, you still learn from the experience.

Sorry, I'll stop ranting now.

Mark in Maine

Either way, it sounds like cheap insurance - my car doesn't feel particularly mushy up front, but I'll brace the front of my subframe anyways, even though there's no visible sign of cracks or noticeable fatigue. Just as soon play it safe . . .

racing geek

iTrader: (5)

I'm a teenager with a bunch of money into my suspension and I have a welder in the garage. I'm breaking all your examples! LOL

I don't think this matters much to some, but the other benifit of going aftermarket is to have it powdercoated.

Personally, I'm running the wonderbar that came on my car 22 years ago and I haven't had a problem at all... even with all the autocrossing I do.

Mike

Dizturbed One

I would HAVE to say that a wonderbar does PLENTY as far as performance goes. It is stopping the forces on the frame rails from camber and toe forces from the tires, etc. Therefore keeping the "square" of your flimsy unibody frame horns intact during cornering.

I noticed quite a difference when I threw a nice new wonderbar on my loose old front end. Especially at low speed turns and the freeway onramp. Almost just as much as I feel the 36mm swaybar in turns. AND it helped with alot of the rattling.

But I can see one point that JamesC and another guy was stressing... And if I had a garage at the time, I would've just made one. Because chromoly, powdercoating, and R&D (yeah right) applied... Just isn't enough to pay for it in this case. Any bar with some steel plate and holes at the end will serve you just as good.