Chuck84TA

ok, looking to get some new shocks....

My primary use will be spirited street and no serious racing ambitions. I want the most for the money, but I do not need closed course racing shocks.

Many options to choose from so I wanted to see if I can get some ideas about costs and bang for the buck results that some of you who have purchased after market shocks...

So I decided to try a rating system.

Performance 1-10. 1 being Monroe 10 being ???

Costs 1-10?

Overall quality 1-10

Thanks!

Chuck

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

Koni are pretty high on the list. Pricy, but they are adjustable with a small dial on the top in the engine bay. Ive used them in the past on a coil over setup, went back to stock only because I sold everything as a kit, dont like the coil over setup personally. Hope this helps some. Btw Quality is very high with these. KYB is another option but Im not a fan.

naf

iTrader: (7)

If you're not running new springs, bushings and sub frame connectors I'd spend the money there before upgrading much past the KYBs.

Zach/90\irocZ

iTrader: (6)

I disagree
for handling i would invest 1st in tires or wider wheel setup... with good tires..... then i would upgrade to a good quality strut/shock combo.... then springs/bushings....... then steering items..... SFC would be the last thing i would invest in.... money in SFC could be put into a good struts.... you can get shocks later if funds are low and assuming rear shocks are not blown....

1.koni/blistiens
2.kyb
3.monroe

Reid Fleming

iTrader: (2)

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...og-5662-a.html

Pretty much sums up my thoughts.

Chuck84TA

Thank you!

I definitely will go with the Koni Yellows.

I already ordered the Moog 5665/5662 springs and I plan on replacing the bushings first.

Then when tire rack has a sale on the Koni's Ill snap them up

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

I think i got the moog 5665, i know its the 350 iroc springs. Btw just a fyi. And this im sure most here will reiterate. Please install the springs safly. There is an excellent post here, dont have the link, with very detailed instructions I used. Involves a small piece of pipe, washers and a nut in addition to the hook design installer which goes on the inside of the spring. These things can kill you under pressure. After the konis and springs, if all your ball joints , bushings and such are questionable, moog replacments would be another upgrade. Dont discount subframes, they really tighten up a t top car if thats what you run. Hope this helps and take care. Ill try to search the post to link it here for you.

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

Chuck here is the link :
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...y-install.html

I used this method and it works. Please read it carefully. Hope this helps. Please stay safe.

Chuck84TA

Thanks IROCZ1989!

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

I went with the Koni Yellows and the Moog 5664s. I have enjoyed them, even when I just ran the Koni Yellows for a week I noticed a large difference. To be fair though I was replacing the 20 year old stock struts and shocks! I will fore warn, The 5664 Moog is a stock spring for a fully optioned out Z28 convertible with all the smog equipment so I you are like me and have removed or replaced many parts with fiberglass or aluminum you will probably need to remove a spring coil to reach a height that doesn't look like an SUV or truck.

rsmith085

iTrader: (1)

I've got the better Monroe's(Sensa trac or something I think) and don't have any complaints. I know KYB, Koni ect is a much better piece but anything is going to be better than the wore out stock ones.

Also make sure you get new dust boots if your original ones are gone(as in my case) or tore up. Dirt/grime will get on the strut shaft and proceed to scar the seal and shaft. I could not find stock replacements anywhere so I just ordered some Energy Suspension universal ones, costs all of $15 or so.

Also I suggest going with tubular control arms and panhard bar out back. It really tightens up the rear of the car and keeps it from squirming around during spirited driving.

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

I did the exact same thing just because it was so cheap and easy but I'm not sure how much damage, if any, not having the boots would have. One member had proposed the argument that you rarely if ever see the construction, road paving, excavating, etc., equipment wearing a cover on their hydraulics.

rlewi771

I disagree with you. A shock cannot perform to it's full potential with a chassis that is free to flex. I certainly wouldn't put SFC's at the bottom of the list.

SlickTrackGod

.

TPI-Formula350-

SFC are far from over rated, in these cars they are a must.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

When dealing with 20+ year old cars, there is no 1 magic part.

First you got to get it all to new specs or better, that means replacing all worn bushings, links etc...

Then you can start upgrading stuff.

SFC's are not going to make a worn car a winner. They are just part of the picture.

They will stiffen the car, prevent further cracking of the body ( look at the corner of the door openings sometime on a 3rd gen, most are cracked)
They also provide the basis or a firm chassis that you can then start building on.

There is not a single unibody car out there that would not benifit in some form from having sfc's installed.

Its not a one or the other choice if you are building a 3rd gen to perform at a higher level.

That said, not everyone with a 3rd gen is looking to build a track star. Many would be very happy with a stock 3rd gen, once it is returned to like new specifications.

Still, even these people would be very happy and notice a tremedous improvement if sfc's were installed.


Now, since this is a thread about shocks and sturts, we can let the op decide on sfcs when they wish, lets continue to discuss shocks and struts.

AS some have stated. it really is a get what you pay for area.

If you are on a limited budget, KYB's are fine. Pay more for the better rears.

Tokico and Konis are grreat. Adjustable are even better, though for to expensive for a non race application, unless you got cash to burn.

Rear has many more options. They take the same shock as a 67-69 f body, so you can look at the huge market for them for more options.

TPI-Formula350-

I agree 100%....
getting back to shocks and struts, I'd also go with Koni if I had the extra cash. I'm currently running KYB GR2s and they have been good to me. They are a step above stock but if your looking to do serious autoX go with Koni.

Zach/90\irocZ

iTrader: (6)

I think they are bottom of list... Lets think track/auto cross in mind..
there are thirdgens in auto cross seen not using them with no complaints..
SFC are not going to make you wonders on the track it's not going to cut off 3 secs off your track time ..
I think track times would be nearly the same....
if setups are identical ..
SFC are not gods gift for a thirdgen .... yes it will stiffen the chassis up on a thirdgen ...but there are overrated for what you make them out to be until there's hard proof on the track for comparison that you can show ....
me but until then they will be on the bottom of my list Will I put them on there sure once I completed every other suspension upgrade/restoring ...

Upgrade shocks/struts first best kind you can afford

Koni
Blistien
Tokico
Kyb
Monroe


Even if I was just going to street drive only ...SFC would be the last on my list
I alway look at the cost too performance gain I want the most bang for my buck
And that would be Shocks/struts even throw in a couple of bushing replacing your already there mightiest well

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

SFC's are not going to shed seconds of your time, but single part will. SFC's are more about adding structural integrity to the car, preventing it from folding in half. Also they add CONSISTANCY be eliminating unpredicable flex.


You are right, there are a lot of guys without them that don't complain, thats because they don't know what they are missing.

I have never heard anyone say they installed SFC's and did not notice an major improvement in the car as soon as they pulled out of the garage.
If you have never installed any then you don't know what you are missing. It truely is a night and day difference, especially on a street driven car.

Anyway, this guy wants to know about shocks.

Tibo

iTrader: (15)

Come on guys, the discussion is about shocks/struts and personal experience. NOT argue about SFCs. Keep it up and this thread will be

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

I have to agree as well. Its hard to believe but these care are approching classic years. Take mine for example. First and formost any suspension upgrade you need to bring the car back to original specs. Which means replacing all worn bushings everywhere. Ball joints , tie rods, check a arm bushings, trailing arm links, panhard rod links, pitman arms,. This will bring it back to stock specs, which are pretty dam good for a car this old.
End links and sway bar links are almost always overlooked and can make a car handle terrible when they go. Now at this point you can decide when upgrading suspension components bushings if its better to upgrade to a part that is stronger and already come with a poly bushing. So many parts that make this car handle well that to say replacing shocks is top priority is insane. You can get Konis which I feel is a very good shock/strut. But say your endlinks are broken and or missing. Konis wont be worth a dam in this situation.
On the sfc, take a step back and think about ir for a second. Most cars before the unibody were full frame vehicles. Gm went to unibody,because #1 cheaper,#2 lighter( to get more mpg in addition to the efi) . These cars flex, there is no arguing that. Add add in a ttop car which takes away more metal from the frame to make the vehicle flex even more and you have a situation where sfc can be a worthy addition to any package. I dont road race and cant comment on there ability in that situation but when I first got my car in 96 I installed sfc and on a bone stock motor with just cat back , headers and drag radials I turned consistant 1.70 short times at a 14.2 @97. It launched hard. I actually got stress cracks at the edge of the two windows that I had repaired before installing these. And went on to turn numereous 12.60 @ 112 times the following year with an ati procharger on the same setup, and never any stress cracks since. Just my experience. In my situation well worth the money. Hope this helps. Take care all and Merry Christmas

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

If the OP can afford Konis, I say get them. They will be the last ones you will have to buy, Koni will rebuild them.

If you can't afford them, Tokicos,

If they are too pricey, KYB.

Zach/90\irocZ

iTrader: (6)

I 2nd that


Think your getting the wrong pic
I'm not denying you at all about SFC I agree with you 100% on that it will make a solid car
It is one of my next upgrades and I can't wait

It was on my Christmas list I gave to my wife lol

Just saying invest in good shock and struts first then SFC if you had the money
Don't want to spend money and be left with crappy Monroe's

It's not a discussion Correct but people are saying it SFC should be installed first
When a set of koni yellow like the OP decided on is better bang for Buck then SFC

Koni has lifetime warranty
And are adjustable I believe

I would set with softest and work your way up for your driving style here's a good link
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/susp...djustment.html

And will work on Lowered thirdgens Monroe's just blow don't last long on lowered car

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

IMO it does not matter what order you install parts, when you need all of them anyway.

Zach/90\irocZ

iTrader: (6)

True

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

Please note that the OP is interested in struts and shocks at this point.

JamesC

Chuck84TA

Thanks for all of your inputs.

It looks like it boils down to "you get what you pay for"... Koni's are VERY HIGH on my list for great accolades, easy adjustment, and longevity despite the high cost...I plan to keep this T/A for a long time so the high cost of Koni's is not a real issue anyway

Regarding suspension upgrades like SFC's and new bushings, etc... I will address those also, in time...

Merry Christnas

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

I thought you might find the following interesting:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/afte...rops-koni.html

Here's the warrantee:

http://www.koni-na.com/warranty.cfm

Pretty tough to beat that, huh?

JamesC

Chuck84TA

Pretty tough to beat that, huh?

JamesC


A warranty that basically guarantees it for life? YGBSM! But they'll do it!

That's it, I am buying the whole set for sure!

Well worth the cost alone with that guarantee!

Reid Fleming

iTrader: (2)

I'm going to try and keep this shock related and not SFC related.

However, let me add that I would do struts/shocks and springs before doing SFC. Why? SlickTrackGod uses laser levels to make sure his ride heights are perfectly equal before doing subframe connectors. The argument being that bolting SFC onto a car that is crooked will result in something approximating a stool with one leg shorter than the others.

Now I'm not that picky. But changing the rear shocks and springs (at the same time) did drastically change my ride height. Changing the front struts changed my ride height. Changing the front springs later on changed my ride height. Changing from one Goodyear up front and one Michelin up front (both the same size/aspect ratios) to Michelin on both sides changed my ride height.

It's only after getting new shocks/struts and springs as well as same sized BRAND of tires that my car resembled something close to level.

Now when it comes to suspension, getting good struts/shocks is about 80% of your performance gain. The other 20% comes from everything else combined.

SFC are definitely recommended. But they're more for rigidness and general tightness. A SFC will make your car feel better going up a steep driveway when you're turning onto it at 45 degrees. Shocks have little to nothing to help you in this regard. But a lot of handling performance comes from the ability to move freely while retaining firmness. A rod ended lower control arm is great for turning, but not so good in the steep driveway situation where the SFC helps.

I equate Koni vs Bilstein as being like Z06 vs Z51. Both are great setups. But the formers are just meant to handle. While the latters are still really good, but a tad more forgiving......Having said that, I don't even have my front Konis turned down all the way to full soft. With 0% being full soft and 100% being full firm, I run mine about 25-30% (variable ****). I'll occasionally bring it up to about 45%.

Tip: If you plan on doing aftermarket solid bearing strut mounts later on, leave the dust boots off your new front struts when you install them. It saves you having to remove the struts to remove the dust boots later on, when you want to use the newer strut mounts.

Chuck84TA

Thanks Reid!

When you mentioned the reasons for waiting for the sfc's until all other suspension modifications makes the most sense! I didn't stop to think about the rigidity issue when the new shocks, springs, bushings, wonder bar, lca's, etc would change the car so that it would actually be more of a benefit to install the sfc's last to "lock in" all of the rigidity improvements that were made.

Do you agree with that assessment?

Thanks!
Chuck

Reid Fleming

iTrader: (2)

Part of it has to do with the fact that I don't own a welder.

Things like LCA and bushings shouldn't affect the ride height. But the springs/shocks definitely will. But you are right in that each piece as it goes in will tend to stiffen things up just a bit tighter.

To give a reference in my own case, my ride heights changed as such from original to new springs/struts and shocks/tires.

0.5.....-0.25
1.25....1.00

The car is within 1/4 of an inch from side to side now.

I think I've pretty much exhausted this topic.