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Finally started a new project this week. I picked up a 92 RS last week and was wondering if anyone had any feedback on a Qaudra Link install from DSE. I didn't see much when searching but its very possible I overlooked someone that's done it on here. I need to hammer out a few dents in the quarter so I ended up pulling the interior out (and because the carpet smelled like mold). Might as well throw a quadra link in while I have the guts removed.
I'm still baffled by this car. I found an inch of water in the trunk when I pulled the carpets but no rust. The car is nearly rust free. Coming from the midwest and being 25 years old, that is rare.
Well I take it that no one has done this by the lack of responses. I'll keep everyone posted on the install. Hopefully I can have this in the car in the next month or so. I don't work in the same state that I live so time for a project like this is always difficult.
Finally started a new project this week. I picked up a 92 RS last week and was wondering if anyone had any feedback on a Qaudra Link install from DSE. I didn't see much when searching but its very possible I overlooked someone that's done it on here. I need to hammer out a few dents in the quarter so I ended up pulling the interior out (and because the carpet smelled like mold). Might as well throw a quadra link in while I have the guts removed.
I'm still baffled by this car. I found an inch of water in the trunk when I pulled the carpets but no rust. The car is nearly rust free. Coming from the midwest and being 25 years old, that is rare.
The water is likely from a failed hatch seal.
The reason that you're not finding much about the quadralink is that DSE stuff is $$$ and people don't typically spend big$ on these cars, and those that care enough to typically build their own stuff.
Yeah that makes sense. I've actually been a member of this Forum for quite some time. I joined up when I bought my first third gen years ago but it never amounted to anything more than a pipe dream. Now we finally have some resources to build something fun, its just the challenge of time nowadays.
She'll get all new seals during the rebuild process. I wish I could say I was good enough to build a suspension system on my own, but I only know enough to be dangerous. Plus I can't say I know enough about suspension systems to build something that will actually benefit the car. I've read plenty, but that doesn't always translate to reality. I think in the end I would be better off using something prefabbed like the quadra link.
This should be a fun project. I've been looking forward to picking up another third gen for quite some time. I appreciate the insight crossfire.
The reason that you're not finding much about the quadralink is that DSE stuff is $$$ and people don't typically spend big$ on these cars, and those that care enough to typically build their own stuff.
I think the main reason is because it is questionable if it is an improvement, maybe even a downgrade depending on the intended use.
Really? I wasn't expecting to hear it could be worse. The real reason I wanted to run the Quadra link is so I can throw some large meats out back. I'd like to run a deep dish concave rim. I need to cut out some of the sheet metal in the wheel housing but I'm not comfortable doing that without some sort of reinforcement for the rear end. The Quadra Link seemed like a good way of going about it.
Maybe not a totally objective discussion, but keep in mind that SlickTrackGod does speak with authority, both in profession and personal experience with 3rd gens. And so does Detroit Speed... so have fun with making sense of that!
Great information qwktrip! I read thru Ron's entire thread once last night. That is going to take a few more run throughs to fully grasp. I see SlickTrackGod's point about the wheel hop. That sounded nasty and it appears as if the driver loses control of the car for a split second. Not a good combination. On the flip side, the driver was pushing that car really hard, why just the one wheel hop and nothing in the other corners? I have no idea, just something I noticed.
I'm working out of town next week so I'll do some additional research before I order anything. Thank you for the great information.
Prossi, have you worked with a Quadra Link before and saw negative results? I thought I had this all worked out but now I'm second guessing myself. I'd like to run some wide tires out back (335s) so I liked the extra support the quadra link gave me. I'm not a fan of cutting out the extra sheet metal in the wheel housings unless I am sticking more in somewhere for support.
My build is purely a street car. I'm sure it could go to the local drag strip once or twice but in reality, I'm building something fun to drive that looks good.
Prossi, have you worked with a Quadra Link before and saw negative results? I thought I had this all worked out but now I'm second guessing myself. I'd like to run some wide tires out back (335s) so I liked the extra support the quadra link gave me. I'm not a fan of cutting out the extra sheet metal in the wheel housings unless I am sticking more in somewhere for support.
My build is purely a street car. I'm sure it could go to the local drag strip once or twice but in reality, I'm building something fun to drive that looks good.
There is no reason you can't fit that size tire with a typical minitub
. I'm running 18x12 wheels with 335/30/18 with a minitub
I reinforced the structure with heavier sheet metal 11ga, and tied everything back together so its as strong as stock if not stronger.
As for the quadralink, its too new to have any real feedback on it. However I don't feel that its much better than other setups out there dollar for dollar
I also have respect for Deans insite and from what I've seen there are possible problems with it.
There is no reason you can't fit that size tire with a typical minitub
. I'm running 18x12 wheels with 335/30/18 with a minitub
I reinforced the structure with heavier sheet metal 11ga, and tied everything back together so its as strong as stock if not stronger.
As for the quadralink, its too new to have any real feedback on it. However I don't feel that its much better than other setups out there dollar for dollar
I also have respect for Deans insite and from what I've seen there are possible problems with it.
Thanks 86TA. I'll pass on the Quadra link and run the stock rear suspension with some minor upgrades. If I remember right, you did a build log on your mini tub project some years ago. I'll search for it so I can see how you strengthened the rear sheet metal. My apologies if I am confusing you with someone else.
There is no reason you can't fit that size tire with a typical minitub
. I'm running 18x12 wheels with 335/30/18 with a minitub
I reinforced the structure with heavier sheet metal 11ga, and tied everything back together so its as strong as stock if not stronger.
As for the quadralink, its too new to have any real feedback on it. However I don't feel that its much better than other setups out there dollar for dollar
I also have respect for Deans insite and from what I've seen there are possible problems with it.
I just found your tub thread. Link below for anyone else wanting to read through it again.
The Quadralink has been around for a long time in other iterations in different cars, there are a lot guys going very fast using them in those other cars too. I really doubt it makes much of a difference whether it is in a 1st gen or a 3rd gen f-body, or any of the other cars they make them for. I don't think it is all that special, 4 link suspensions have been around for decades and the Quadralink was designed by former GM engineers
IMO Most rear suspensions are all about the same, I doubt the Quadralink is worse than any of the others. You may or may not like how it handles in the end.
I think the main reason is because it is questionable if it is an improvement, maybe even a downgrade depending on the intended use.
I haven't looked at your links yet, but...
Well that's the truth, but the fact is that people don't think that way. People have been trying to convert the rear suspensions on these cars for years to something they are more familiar with, even though it's one of the few that can really be made to work for both straight line and curves at the same time.
There is a reason why cars with traditional 4 links have TA conversions for them, and they are allowed in classes where mustangs compete with f-bodies...
Well that's the truth, but the fact is that people don't think that way. People have been trying to convert the rear suspensions on these cars for years to something they are more familiar with, even though it's one of the few that can really be made to work for both straight line and curves at the same time.
There is a reason why cars with traditional 4 links have TA conversions for them, and they are allowed in classes where mustangs compete with f-bodies...
Crossfire I misread your post the first time thru and I'm glad I read it again before I responded. Sounds like you are a fan of staying away from the 4 link and sticking with the standard f body rear suspension.
Crossfire I misread your post the first time thru and I'm glad I read it again before I responded. Sounds like you are a fan of staying away from the 4 link and sticking with the standard f body rear suspension.
Honestly, modified for your specific use I don't believe you'll find a better live axle rear suspension, and the only reason I could see going to an IRS is for better street manners (it will not outhandle it at the track or go faster in a straight line).
Honestly, modified for your specific use I don't believe you'll find a better live axle rear suspension, and the only reason I could see going to an IRS is for better street manners (it will not outhandle it at the track or go faster in a straight line).
The Quadralink won't increase your wheel clearance. 3 of the attachment points are the stock lower control arm mounts and the stock panhard bar mount on the body.
The only cars I know running it is the Raymond's Performance car in the video and the Detroit Speed car. There are probably others out there but I haven't seen them out at events.
The Quadralink won't increase your wheel clearance. 3 of the attachment points are the stock lower control arm mounts and the stock panhard bar mount on the body.
The only cars I know running it is the Raymond's Performance car in the video and the Detroit Speed car. There are probably others out there but I haven't seen them out at events.
Yeah I did notice that. What I was worried about was cutting the sheet metal in the wheel wells out without some sort of reinforcement. The quadra link gets a pretty solid amount of reinforcement where the rear seat sits. I will use DSE SFCs as well (especially since the car is a t-top).
I think I am going to take 86TAs advice and do what he did with the 11ga plate. He tubbed his car nearly 10 years ago and is running a pretty stacked drivetrain and motor. It should be fine for what I'm planning along the same line. The old charger in the background of my original post is for trying to twist frames in half.
Let me start by saying I think DSE does some remarkable fabricating, but that does not mean metal fabricators know suspension dynamics. I've had a few different aftermarket companies not like me for stating just plain facts about products over the years- example in the early days of UMI. Ryan and Ramey are actually fairly good acquaintances of mine now today. I do not like busting someones ***** for nothing, I merely try and keep to facts so people can base hard earned money purchases on those products.
DSE has a nice setup that could be taylored to work if they used multiple mount positions of the arm geometry- and I am sure they are working on that as we speak. That setup like any 4 link is really best for drag car setups due to limited articulation and bind of 4links. Triangulated are better than parallel 4 links, but still have their issues from all out handling. Want a real world apples to apples comparison?
As a lot of you know I have been involved in automobiles and various forms of racing as both a driver and an engineer or crew chief over my 50 yrs of existence. one of them in the recent decade has been in a few of the higher and lower ranks of NASCAR as a crew member or mainly crew chief on about a dozen different vehicles/teams. Two of those vehicles happen to be very closely related with Craftman supertrucks and SouthWest tour trucks. THe SWTT's have a triangulated 4 link and the superturks a traditional 3 link setup. Both truck series I have extensive first hand knowledge of and can tell you straight up the 3-link setups are far superior by about 1 second on average on a 19 second half mile oval. THey have less bind and thus more articulation. Granted the 3link in question is an upper 3rd link and not a Tq arm setup- so wheelhop and traction are much easier taylored with a 3rdlink (as well as easier to screw up). The 4 link is very limited in adjustment settings and how the chassis reacts.
Hard to beat the solid axle OEM 3rd gen setup. Nothing wrong with it other than weight compared to independent, but I will say much more predictable and durable and simplicity when it comes to adjustments compared to independent. Toe is an issue with independent that people unwillingly ask for when switching from a solid axle.
The 3rd gen rear has a few particular traits that are unbeatable. 1- roll induced understeer capabilities with proper geometry. 2- it migrates the rear roll center off center of chassis towards the outside to help weight the inside rear wheel. 3- no toe in issues at high speed which can make a grown man **** his pants 4- a long panhard rod, 5- tQ arm length is almost perfect for instant center under throttle AND braking. A little shorter than OEM is ultimatum in my book with progressive rate rear springs and very good race quality damper shocks in both compression and rebound to control and thus slow down or limit the overall movement of the geometry so as not to wheelhop. Most people use linear springs and mild shock settings with small rear sway bars on 3rd gens. I used a progressive rate rear spring with slightly higher compression and very high rebound settings and a massiv erear swaybar- however, the front suspension (pertaining mainly to the strut angle in caster static and dynamic) comes drastically into play as to how the rear of the car reacts overall in weight transfer.
Dean
ps - Speaking of life experiences, I am heading to Nurburgring/Nordshelife in 1 month with friends/acqiantances of mine who all live overseas. One of them is a Redbull rallyx racer from Turkey I will be codriving a BMWe46 with adn working with him to refine some of his driving skills- as well as the 3 others. One of which is a member here and we are hopefully taking his big block 3rd gen TA to the ring as well during my stay The are excited about me coming over as I am going over.
Last edited by SlickTrackGod; 05-24-2017 at 12:15 AM.
Let me start by saying I think DSE does some remarkable fabricating, but that does not mean metal fabricators know suspension dynamics. I've had a few different aftermarket companies not like me for stating just plain facts about products over the years- example in the early days of UMI. Ryan and Ramey are actually fairly good acquaintances of mine now today. I do not like busting someones ***** for nothing, I merely try and keep to facts so people can base hard earned money purchases on those products.
DSE has a nice setup that could be taylored to work if they used multiple mount positions of the arm geometry- and I am sure they are working on that as we speak. That setup like any 4 link is really best for drag car setups due to limited articulation and bind of 4links. Triangulated are better than parallel 4 links, but still have their issues from all out handling. Want a real world apples to apples comparison?
As a lot of you know I have been involved in automobiles and various forms of racing as both a driver and an engineer or crew chief over my 50 yrs of existence. one of them in the recent decade has been in a few of the higher and lower ranks of NASCAR as a crew member or mainly crew chief on about a dozen different vehicles/teams. Two of those vehicles happen to be very closely related with Craftman supertrucks and SouthWest tour trucks. THe SWTT's have a triangulated 4 link and the superturks a traditional 3 link setup. Both truck series I have extensive first hand knowledge of and can tell you straight up the 3-link setups are far superior by about 1 second on average on a 19 second half mile oval. THey have less bind and thus more articulation. Granted the 3link in question is an upper 3rd link and not a Tq arm setup- so wheelhop and traction are much easier taylored with a 3rdlink (as well as easier to screw up). The 4 link is very limited in adjustment settings and how the chassis reacts.
Hard to beat the solid axle OEM 3rd gen setup. Nothing wrong with it other than weight compared to independent, but I will say much more predictable and durable and simplicity when it comes to adjustments compared to independent. Toe is an issue with independent that people unwillingly ask for when switching from a solid axle.
The 3rd gen rear has a few particular traits that are unbeatable. 1- roll induced understeer capabilities with proper geometry. 2- it migrates the rear roll center off center of chassis towards the outside to help weight the inside rear wheel. 3- no toe in issues at high speed which can make a grown man **** his pants 4- a long panhard rod, 5- tQ arm length is almost perfect for instant center under throttle AND braking. A little shorter than OEM is ultimatum in my book with progressive rate rear springs and very good race quality damper shocks in both compression and rebound to control and thus slow down or limit the overall movement of the geometry so as not to wheelhop. Most people use linear springs and mild shock settings with small rear sway bars on 3rd gens. I used a progressive rate rear spring with slightly higher compression and very high rebound settings and a massiv erear swaybar- however, the front suspension (pertaining mainly to the strut angle in caster static and dynamic) comes drastically into play as to how the rear of the car reacts overall in weight transfer.
Dean
ps - Speaking of life experiences, I am heading to Nurburgring/Nordshelife in 1 month with friends/acqiantances of mine who all live overseas. One of them is a Redbull rallyx racer from Turkey I will be codriving a BMWe46 with adn working with him to refine some of his driving skills- as well as the 3 others. One of which is a member here and we are hopefully taking his big block 3rd gen TA to the ring as well during my stay The are excited about me coming over as I am going over.
Dean,
Thanks for taking the time to pass along your knowledge. Actually a thank you to everyone on here that has posted is in order. You have all been extremely helpful in preventing me from doing something I may have been unhappy with.
Dean a lot of what you said follows right in line with the Ron Sutton article that Qwk posted above. It's great having the confirmation from another person that has spent a substantial time in racing. So I truly appreciate the insight. If it's okay with you, I may pick your brain down the line on front suspension when I get to that section of the car. Right now I am cleaning up the body work because of a few bare metal spots and cutting out the rear tubs.
Have a great trip to the ring! I'm sure you'll have some great pictures so don't forget to pass those along to us guys stuck in the states. I'd love to get over there and catch a race. I've got the flight miles to get me there and back multiple times. But when you spend your life in airports, it seems like you go everywhere and nowhere at the same time. Lots of travel but never enough time to see the sights. Luckily I did find a few days in two weeks to catch the Top Fuels in Englishtown. That will have to hold me over for a few months.
Thanks for taking the time to pass along your knowledge. Actually a thank you to everyone on here that has posted is in order. You have all been extremely helpful in preventing me from doing something I may have been unhappy with.
Dean a lot of what you said follows right in line with the Ron Sutton article that Qwk posted above. It's great having the confirmation from another person that has spent a substantial time in racing. So I truly appreciate the insight. If it's okay with you, I may pick your brain down the line on front suspension when I get to that section of the car. Right now I am cleaning up the body work because of a few bare metal spots and cutting out the rear tubs.
Have a great trip to the ring! I'm sure you'll have some great pictures so don't forget to pass those along to us guys stuck in the states. I'd love to get over there and catch a race. I've got the flight miles to get me there and back multiple times. But when you spend your life in airports, it seems like you go everywhere and nowhere at the same time. Lots of travel but never enough time to see the sights. Luckily I did find a few days in two weeks to catch the Top Fuels in Englishtown. That will have to hold me over for a few months.
Matt
No problem, love to help and have for a few decades now on here. As for Top Fuels, Jim Campbell (Jim Dunn Racing), his best friend John N and I were shooting pool together the other day here in Huntington Beach. Jim is a fun guy.
As for Airport etc, not looking forward to the 13+ hour flight. Hope the stewardesses are cute so I have good company to kill the time with.
I am friend of a friend with Andy Pilgrim (My frined Jim P has known Andy for probably 30 years). Andy is running the 24hr @ Nurburgring/Nordschleife as we speak and I asked Jim to talk to Andy and get me some in car footage so I can have good current views of the track and foilage along the sides (trees, hills, greenery- basic topography) so I am up to date with the track.
Last edited by SlickTrackGod; 05-25-2017 at 11:38 AM.
Matter of fact I have this pic on my phone of Jim pretending to take a crap trying to distract my buddy Lenny as he was trying to shoot. Classy joint, lol . It was much more funny with a few beers in us and listening to his "audio".
Let me start by saying I think DSE does some remarkable fabricating, but that does not mean metal fabricators know suspension dynamics.
I believe Kyle Tucker was an engineer for GM for many years, They are more than mere fabricators over there. Not saying the 4 link is the greatest thing on the planet, but it's more than a few guys in the garage making stuff.
That being said, I know they make the 4 link for various platforms, so it may not be ideally engineered for the 3rd gen cars compared to some of the other platforms it was originally designed for. I am not even saying it is good, just that not many of the people that actually put any of these aftermarket parts on their cars actually race them, so it is almost a moot point criticizing/defending it at all.
I believe Kyle Tucker was an engineer for GM for many years, They are more than mere fabricators over there. Not saying the 4 link is the greatest thing on the planet, but it's more than a few guys in the garage making stuff.
That being said, I know they make the 4 link for various platforms, so it may not be ideally engineered for the 3rd gen cars compared to some of the other platforms it was originally designed for. I am not even saying it is good, just that not many of the people that actually put any of these aftermarket parts on their cars actually race them, so it is almost a moot point criticizing/defending it at all.
Then Ill ask one simple question- why even buy it if you are not going to use it for a higher performance value? Your statement is really very silly.
05-10-2017, 11:31 AM
