Hi: I had gone to get a set of heads and got a set of Pro Topline/Pro Action 67 cc 2.02-1.60 heads. Had a Turbo City Rework my TBI on 93 GMC pickup and planned on having about 9.02:1 compression, and cam is a 212-218, 444 then also added comp roller rockers.

Problem is the heads I got were the 217 and listed as a Marine head on their web site, www.protopline.com . Plus it has 1.94-1.50 valves and 76 cc heads.

I was going to have them shaved .030-.035, but Machine shop said it would not change cc's that much. I know going to a .015-.020 head gasket would make Fed Mogul Pistons H345NP40 have a better quench and about a .026 change making what I thought was a .056-.061 change to help get cc's lower after screw up.

HERE is what I got, but I am thinking the lower compression because of wrong head cc made me run close to a 8.37:1 compression compounded by cam effected volumtric pressure and motor thinks it's under load. I did a compression check and all cylinders got around 122-125, which I assume is because of the lower compression motor. Moly rings and only about 9000 miles, but this compression issue on a MAP ran computer motor is messing me up as stock chip matched to motor and custom one all run rich, very rich. I know going from 4.3-5.7 would be a little work, but I matched Service number and it was same for both, change all sensors except one by disributor, told oil pressure.

Never did go to heads as last shorties I got from on line discount place we all know was house brand and bolt up facing was lower then tubes, which I was told kept them from blowing out more and they were a pain. Never had such problems on big block GTO in 70s and through them away they upset me that much. MSD Coil, new computer, chips, sensors, new distributor Proform etc. Little upset maker of heads has not helped me out as I just wanted what I gotten even if they used refurbished product at tis point as I still hope motor would run with right part. As custom chip from Turbo City, which I can redo-50 dollars, but if it and stock run like dog do, it must be addressed first, or that was my thought anyway. ANY IDEAS more then welcomed? Has anyone used ALDl connection on computer read out program, OBDI??? Help please, new at this computer world on cars, and I would like to see if a TBI can run well or not. I believe T.C.'s TBI had TBI's ports matched, matched police type injectors, and a adjustable regulator. Stock motors for this year should have 8.5 and with cam, I had hoped over 9.02:1 would work.

CC, SHOP email, Top Proline Head site C.C Sizes
#703243 - 01/18/04 05:10 PM Edit Reply Quote


Below is from Machine Shop, Web page Maker of Heads - greg@protopline.com as well as any other info I could put on site and reason I have been very concern before I proceed as machine shop here is what shops said in Tulsa as well! They were suppose to been Torker 67 cc heads with 2.02 int and 1.60 exh told same as World Torquer Heads, so I hope you understand my concern. Trying to get a helping hand from Top Proline Co. even some correct defective head they reworked anything is better then this if they are going to be a hassle to mill, not to mention running rich and like because custom Turbo City chip and TBI were setup based on what I was told when I got heads Brand NEW! Hoping serial number or something can be found to help me on this if they mark heads with one, unsure myself !

You would have to mill more than 30 to lower it as much,more like 80.
Thanks,
Tech Dept.
Flatlander Racing

http://www.protopline.com/2237694217.asp Notice chambers sizes 217 vs 083

603-378-0090 (Replaces GM 14096217)
View Prices & Product List

Application Standard replacement, Fuel Injection, Marine, Police, light Truck.
Truck '87-'91 series 10, 20 & 30, Car '87-'92 VIN 8.
Carburettor version (can be drilled for FI)
Part Number 223 7694 217 / 223 6494 083
Year '87 - '92
VIN Number 8
Engine Model
OEM Number
Casting ID
Chamber Style Vortec 'D' Chamber
Chamber Size 217 = 76cc and 083 = 64cc Port Volume 167cc
Port Style Conventional
Rocker cover bolt pattern Centre bolt only
Rocker stud: Screw in 7/16" UNC
Spark Plug position Straight Plug
Manifold bolt pattern - 217 12 Bolt Fuel Injection - '87 - '96
Manifold bolt pattern - 083 12 Bolt Carburettor
Heat Riser Yes
Valve centres 1.890"
Intake Valve 1.940"
Exhaust Valve 1.500"
Exhaust Inserts Hardened Exhaust Inserts
Notes * Redesigned water jacket for enhanced thermal conductivity
* Premium grade cast iron for consistent casting quality & increased resistance to cracking
* Close tolerance casting and machining for precise component fit,
providing the best in performance and durability.

TOP PROLINE Number on heads:
SON's email to maker :
Number on heads if I read my dad's writing right is 2237694217M 5558 06 01 if that helps. On the run so I read this later sorry, Sunday rush trying to help him as he has chronic health problems-off to Church! Heads were for 1993 GMC pickup, 350 motor. (Rich As Heck now!)

Re: CC, SHOP email, Top Proline Head site C.C Sizes [Re: HPMike]
#703399 - 01/18/04 07:39 PM Edit Reply Quote


Ive had a few dealings with Greg Stokes from topline...I was left somewhat feeling uneasy. He did communicate well with me, but somehow I didn't get the answers I was looking for. He seems to be the sole tech advisor...keep after him..he will try to help

--------------------

Reged: 12/23/03
Posts: 113



Re: CC, SHOP email, Top Proline Head site C.C Sizes [Re: bigjimzlll]
#703424 - 01/18/04 08:07 PM Edit Reply Quote


Thanks, but I can relate as this was an issue when I pulled valve covers and saw casting numbers 217. I was told I would have to pull heads as they needed numbers on side of heads, which what does that say same marine 217 only now a full number. Like I said to Proline, I am not being a butthead or I would be complaining about extra gas washing cylinders, wasted gas and time just to get a product sold to me wrong corrected while doing engine job twice as by now I had hoped to be done with my 5.0 HO motor and going to 383+. Health and pain of this held me up, thanks for response, so I know it's a least not me. Son even sent email from post etc, but he's serving his country and told him he need to take care of himself and I will try to work this out, hopfully as time goes by they will see as a consumer advocate since 72, I hate to go to other resources to resolve screw up. Just how long they push it, is on them.

Here is after I got able to write email and out of hospital first time and response sent to them:
----- Original Message -----
From: kevin Bailey
To: 'Manager'
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 11:40 AM
Subject: RE:
Your truck will have either 191/193 or 906 casting numbers on them The 217 is mostly used in marine.


For the record this is what they told me I was getting when I got heads: 223 6720 167 T Pro Torker 67cc chamber 2.020 Intake valve Not sure about part number as I took this off web page but basically their version of World Head! Live and learn should not cost so much!

 

Here's one now Proline Rep is saying he cannot have Fed Ex pickup heads and I have to find a way to get them back, In the country.

Really sucks and may be cheaper and faster to angle mill heads and go thinner gasket.

Michael ANY IDEAS on how to ship reasonablly?
For technical assistance please call toll free:
Phone: 1-866-PROHEAD (776-4323) NZ
Phone: 1-877-PROHEAD (776-4323) USA
Email: sales@procylinderheads.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Stokes" <greg@protopline.com>
To: "Manager" <mdwus1@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 2:40 PM
Subject: RE: Form posted from Microsoft Internet Explorer.


> Michael,
>
> Please advise of all your address details so that I can arrange Fed Ex to
> pick them up.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Greg Stokes
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Manager [mailto:mdwus1@sbcglobal.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, 20 January 2004 9:21 a.m.
> To: Greg Stokes
> Subject: Re: Form posted from Microsoft Internet Explorer.
>
>
> Do you know who ships heads?
>
> UPS not really wanting to, or I can check with friends on line at
> chevytalk.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Manager" <mdwus1@sbcglobal.net>
> To: "Greg Stokes" <greg@protopline.com>
> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 11:53 AM
> Subject: Re: Form posted from Microsoft Internet Explorer.
>
>
> > 918-650-9198
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Greg Stokes" <greg@protopline.com>
> > To: <mdwus1@sbcglobal.net>
> > Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 4:30 PM
> > Subject: FW: Form posted from Microsoft Internet Explorer.
> >
> >
> > > Please reply with your contact telephone number so that I can discuss
> this
> > > with you.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > >
> > > Greg Stokes
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Barbara [mailto:barbara@protopline.com]
> > > Sent: Monday, 19 January 2004 7:13 a.m.
> > > To: Greg Stokes
> > > Subject: FW: Form posted from Microsoft Internet Explorer.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Manager [mailto:mdwus1@sbcglobal.net]
> > > Sent: Monday, 19 January 2004 12:53 p.m.
> > > To: info@protopline.com
> > > Subject: Form posted from Microsoft Internet Explorer.
> > >
> > >
> > > FirstName=MDWerner
> > > Surname=
> > > Company=Office Services
> > > Address=307 N 3rd Street
> > > Suburb=
> > > City=Henryetta
> > > Postcode=74437
> > > Country=US
> > > email=mdwus1@sbcglobal.net
> > > Phone=6509198
> > > Fax=
> > > Mobile=
> > > comments=Craig Pullman: CEO, Registered letter sent:
> > >
> > > SR 76 CC 217 heads, how much removing from heads makes 1cc and what
> effect
> > > would going from a .041 standard proform Head Gasket to their 1094 or
> .015
> > > head gasket and milling .030-.035 off head?
> > >
> > > Sold Heads as Torker 68 cc, but are SR and 76 cc. Trying to get closer
> to
> > > 9.0:1 with Federal Mogul H345NP pistons as now unfortunately 2,000
> dollar
> > > motor got stuck with wrong cc heads.
> > > SUBMIT=Click here to submit this form by E-Mail
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
----- Original Message -----
From: Manager
To: kevinfeeney98@aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2004 11:14 AM
Subject: Fw: Ben Smeding, Wrong heads marine 76cc heads.



----- Original Message -----
From: Manager
To: Sunrise Foreign
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 2:36 PM
Subject: Re: Ben Smeding, Wrong heads marine 76cc heads.


Even a performance job bowtie head would of worked better with 64 cc then these especially since we had stock 76 heads with 358 dollar valve job in garage we did not want because of compression and large chamber head. Tried email Ben, but his web site does not have a email. Use to talk to the Long Hair biker dude when working for Azteca Construction about 383 for Red PU, but he's gone or this would never of happened, nice guy showed shop, looked cool, in shop about 10 times when in CA.
----- Original Message -----
From: Manager
To: Sunrise Foreign
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2004 2:33 PM
Subject: Fw: Ben Smeding, Wrong heads marine 76cc heads.


Sir, I am trying to see who may be able to ship heads, any ideas? Can you Angle Mill a 76 cc head down such as Pro Topline's as ones Ben's sells rep sold me were wrong size cc. Went in and called looking for a 67 cc Sportsman II or Torquer Heads with 2.02-1.60 heads and got a 76 cc Pro Topline head 2237614217, dropping volumtric pressure on 93 GMC using 350 with Federal Mogue H345NP40 pistons acording to F.M.'s tech manager from expected 9.00:1+ to 8.37:1, which cause Volumtric Pressure to drop and computer see's this as though truck's under a load and ads gas, richen so bad carbon up the whole motor. Trying to clean it up and fix this so motor runs as it should and matches what we were told when we had custom chip made but even stock runs rich as stock had 8.50:1 compression.

We thought going to a .015 gasket and maybe angle milling heads to get closer to 67 cc may help if possible and can be done??? Miles away now though and been in and out of hospital 50 years old, so what I am saying is I just want some heads to work if possible.

Regards,

Mike



----- Original Message -----
From: Manager
To: Todd Dowler
Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 10:14 PM
Subject: Re:


CC, SHOP email, Top Proline Head site C.C Sizes
#703243 - 01/18/04 05:10 PM Edit Reply Quote



Below is from Machine Shop, Web page Maker of Heads - greg@protopline.com as well as any other info I could put on site and reason I have been very concern before I proceed as machine shop here is what shops said in Tulsa as well! They were suppose to been Torker 67 cc heads with 2.02 int and 1.60 exh told same as World Torquer Heads, so I hope you understand my concern. Trying to get a helping hand from Top Proline Co. even some correct defective head they reworked anything is better then this if they are going to be a hassle to mill, not to mention running rich and like because custom Turbo City chip and TBI were setup based on what I was told when I got heads Brand NEW! Hoping serial number or something can be found to help me on this if they mark heads with one, unsure myself !

You would have to mill more than 30 to lower it as much,more like 80.
Thanks,
Tech Dept.
Flatlander Racing

http://www.protopline.com/2237694217.asp Notice chambers sizes 217 vs 083

603-378-0090 (Replaces GM 14096217)
View Prices & Product List

Application Standard replacement, Fuel Injection, Marine, Police, light Truck.
Truck '87-'91 series 10, 20 & 30, Car '87-'92 VIN 8.
Carburettor version (can be drilled for FI)
Part Number 223 7694 217 / 223 6494 083
Year '87 - '92
VIN Number 8
Engine Model
OEM Number
Casting ID
Chamber Style Vortec 'D' Chamber
Chamber Size 217 = 76cc and 083 = 64cc
Port Volume 167cc
Port Style Conventional
Rocker cover bolt pattern Centre bolt only
Rocker stud: Screw in 7/16" UNC
Spark Plug position Straight Plug
Manifold bolt pattern - 217 12 Bolt Fuel Injection - '87 - '96
Manifold bolt pattern - 083 12 Bolt Carburettor
Heat Riser Yes
Valve centres 1.890"
Intake Valve 1.940"
Exhaust Valve 1.500"
Exhaust Inserts Hardened Exhaust Inserts
Notes * Redesigned water jacket for enhanced thermal conductivity
* Premium grade cast iron for consistent casting quality & increased resistance to cracking
* Close tolerance casting and machining for precise component fit,
providing the best in performance and durability.

TOP PROLINE Number on heads:
SON's email to maker :
Number on heads if I read my dad's writing right is 2237694217M 5558 06 01 if that helps. On the run so I read this later sorry, Sunday rush trying to help him as he has chronic health problems-off to Church! Heads were for 1993 GMC pickup, 350 motor. (Rich As Heck now!)

Post Extras:
bigjimzlll
Very Senior Member



Reged: 03/30/02
Posts: 1557
Loc: Redding,CA
Re: CC, SHOP email, Top Proline Head site C.C Sizes [Re: HPMike]
#703399 - 01/18/04 07:39 PM Edit Reply Quote



Ive had a few dealings with Greg Stokes from topline...I was left somewhat feeling uneasy. He did communicate well with me, but somehow I didn't get the answers I was looking for. He seems to be the sole tech advisor...keep after him..he will try to help

--------------------
1967 LWB 355/420HP-4000 stall-3:73 posi
#9908

Post Extras:
HPMike
Senior Member



Reged: 12/23/03
Posts: 113

Re: CC, SHOP email, Top Proline Head site C.C Sizes [Re: bigjimzlll]
#703424 - 01/18/04 08:07 PM Edit Reply Quote



Thanks, but I can relate as this was an issue when I pulled valve covers and saw casting numbers 217. I was told I would have to pull heads as they needed numbers on side of heads, which what does that say same marine 217 only now a full number. Like I said to Proline, I am not being a butthead or I would be complaining about extra gas washing cylinders, wasted gas and time just to get a product sold to me wrong corrected while doing engine job twice as by now I had hoped to be done with my 5.0 HO motor and going to 383+. Health and pain of this held me up, thanks for response, so I know it's a least not me. Son even sent email from post etc, but he's serving his country and told him he need to take care of himself and I will try to work this out, hopfully as time goes by they will see as a consumer advocate since 72, I hate to go to other resources to resolve screw up. Just how long they push it, is on them.

Here is after I got able to write email and out of hospital first time and response sent to them:
----- Original Message -----
From: kevin Bailey
To: 'Manager'
Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 11:40 AM
Subject: RE:

Your truck will have either 191/193 or 906 casting numbers on them The 217 is mostly used in marine.


For the record this is what they told me I was getting when I got heads: 223 6720 167 T Pro Torker 67cc chamber 2.020 Intake valve Not sure about part number as I took this off web page but basically their version of World Head! Live and learn should not cost so much!

----- Original Message -----
From: Manager
To: Todd Dowler
Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2004 6:44 PM


TOP PROLINE Number on heads:

Number on heads if I read my dad's writing right is 2237694217M 5558 06 01 if that helps. On the run so I read this later sorry, Sunday rush-Church!

 

Its probably best just to return the heads and get the right ones. If there is a freight carrier near your location you can pack the heads back up and have them shipped back. Do some calling around, there has to be someone who will ship them.

No sense in having a lesser head because you got the wrong thing. Youll loose some money but in the end its probably better to get the part you wanted then try to make a lesser part work.