ironroad9c1

well there it is ,airfuel ratio was right on the money ,and that is with a conservitive 2 degrees advance on my base timing ,might have been able to bump it up ,but i didn't know how the A/F was before i went and i don't have any scanning software or a laptop i think thats pretty good gains for something have 190 at the crank stock. figure 20%drive line loss and you wind up about 247 hp with 372ftlbs of torque..lol this would be a good 4wd engine

vjo90RS8

iTrader: (1)

which 305 heads did u use, TPI or TBI

ironroad9c1

a set of 416's off of a 85 monte carlo ss and a lt1 cam

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

Numbers seem a bit low but encouraging to say the least. I would look into chip work to help boost the numbers a bit.

ironroad9c1

lol that was with a chip,A/F ratio was dead on 13.4 made less power on the first run with the aircleaner lid upside down ,caused it to run lean ..lol

sunset92

maybe the 305 heads still had the 1.84 intake valves... if so i bet that was your problem because with a 350 you should have made way more power! the lo5 heads are swirl port but they still have bigger intake valves than the 305 heads.

ironroad9c1

yea they where stock heads ,just cleaned up the ports a bit and polished the chambers and installed some back cut lt1 valves on the exhaust sides and new springs and retainers i'm very pleased ,i have seen stock lo5's make 147 on the dyno ,so a 60hp gain for 500 total bucks works for me.

BMmonteSS

When you say "a chip" then I guess you mean a mail order chip.

Whats the rest of your setup, what heads were on the motor stock, and did you get a dyno run before the swap? The numbers do seem a bit low, but it's just a dyno, they don't tell you much other than gains from point A to point B. Take her to the track and see what she'll do.

ironroad9c1

well i didn't get to dyno it stock ,it was so weak didn't think a dyno had numbers that low..lol but the car weighs 3693 with out me in it so add 150 lbs and it ran stock at 16.8 @81mph so you come up with about 160 rwhp stock ,they advertise 190 at the crank for these 90 lo5's so thats about right. so i'm looking at about 46 horse gain,not alot ,but i doubt its the tune ,the A/F was about 11.8-12.8 the whole time ,i flipped the aircleaner lid on the first run and made less horsepower..lol so i turned it back over and did the second run,i would do some datalogging ,but no one around here has anything to do it with ,ther eall mustang ,lt1 and ls1 type cars ,hell even the dynoshop didn't have anything to datalog it with.

BMmonteSS

13-1 is border line lean, most engines don't like to run that lean, at 13.3 to 13.5 your way lean. I like to run about 12.5 down low around 3500 rpm and go lean on up from there to about 12.8 to 12.9. Seems to run best that way, but track times will tell this spring. I say you definately have some HP left in the tune, it's hard to tell what kind of spark curve you have, if it's based on a stock truck chip you may need a crap load more, or the mail order chip could have way too much, hard to tell. I'd see about getting more fuel, I haven't ran a motor that lean for more than a run or two, it could cause problems. I can't tell you that at X AFR you'll burn a piston, but you are in the danger zone.

Give WINALDL a try, it's free, and the cable is cheap to make. Just need a laptop. It'll tell you a good bit about your part throttle tune. WOT is a bit tricky because of the slow data logging rate of the TBI ecm's. Plus there isn't much to look at in WINALDL, the stock O2 is useless and the TBI ecm's don't tell you what your timing is, but you can change that if you were burning your own chips.

I'm running those heads as well on my 350, they're bone stock, other than a valve job, and the guides have been cut for more lift. I've run 13.9 @ 98 mph with the combo in my sig. I say i'm making 260 to 275 at the wheels. The heads are deffinely the limiting factor now, since absolutly everything else is pretty much taken care of performance wise to over 400 hp.

ironroad9c1

thats the think i don't have a lap top ,and around here(norfolk area) everyone wants me to help them and no one can return the favor.

BMmonteSS

Well the laptop isn't really the "fix" for your AFR problem. You really need a WB O2 in order to tune your WOT AFR, But if your going to really get into tuning your car you need to look into DIY prom tuning. There is alot to be had by learning to DIY. Once you make it past the basic bolt ons, tuning gets to be a fact of life, and with FI it means changing things in the ECM or using a crutch such as fuel pressure or mail order chips.

In a pinch I would just crank up the fuel pressure and hope for the best.

To fix it correctly, start reading on the prom board and find you a cheap laptop on ebay (20-100$). For another 150$ your on your way to tuning. It just depends on what you want from your vehicle, if your not into tinkering and just looking for a easy fix DIY prom tuning isn't the way to go, it takes time, but it's the most rewarding "mod" I've ever done to my car.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

Not bad at all. That difference has to make a world of difference in how the car runs. You are only about 20 HP shy of the LT1 caprice. I bet that you could get another 20-30 RWHP out of it fairly easily. You might try bumping up you fuel pressure to get you to 12.8 to 1 a/f. Also try to advance your timing a couple of more degrees. Get a spare TBI and rework it by doing the ultimate TBI mods. Don't forget to use your injector pod and injectors. I am thinking that your caprice uses the truck style air cleaner. If so I would think about adding the hypertech powercharger. My TBI gained 10 RWHP with the powercharger. Someday if you want more I would stick some headers on it, open up the exhaust with a high flow system, and possibly open up the exhaust ports in the heads. The exhaust ports are real weak in a 305 head. I have seen the exhaust ports reworked on a "601" head which is about the same as the 416. On that engine it picked up 43 HP and it was a mild 355 with a mellings MTC1 cam.

Here are some 350 truck numbers straight from Car Craft Aug. 2004.

Description of Mods------HP @ RPM-----------TQ @RPM

Stock Baseline-------- 140 @ 3,850------200 @ 3,850
After cat, Tuneup-----168 @ 4,100-------229 @ 3,800
+Headers--------------167 @ 3,500-------237 @ 3,500
+Hypertech Chip-----176 @ 4,050--------260 @ 3,300
+PowerCharger------184 @ 4,100--------268 @ 3,400

I would learn how to burn chips and tune your engine for more power.

In case you decide to port the heads one day. http://www.ws6transam.org/ported.html

ironroad9c1

see this tread ,i've already got the tbi mods,headers dual exaust i was gonna use the performer manifold,just dudn't have th right tb to carb adapter so i used the stock intake

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=273385

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

Thats right I forgot. You still have plenty of room for improvement though.

ironroad9c1

ok got the a/f ratios from the dyno shop today ,here is them listed.


i was wrong it was in the 11's and 12's not 13's like i was thinking.

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

The AFRs look typical for a standard calibration. Rich around peak torque to suck most of the O2 out and shut down the cat, leaner out top to minimize the power loss. My impressions from teh graph is that while the small runners and chambers produce impressive torque, the heads and/or cam are still restrictive up top. What year LT1 cam do you have?

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

Oh, what sized tbi do you have? I pulled a good deal of vacuum through my stock one.

ironroad9c1

stock tb ,but its been modded,ridge removed,radiused,and injector pod spacer ,k&n replacement filter

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

The thing is he has this motor in like a 90 9c1 caprice. That is a heavy car that needs lots of torque. The air fuel mixture is actually pretty good. I bet your intake setup is still fairly restrictive. The cam/heads are definately restrictive after about 4,700 rpm. At low rpm and in the mid range they will put you into the seat like no other.

I was rising into the 80s KPA range at WOT and high RPM with my TBI on the same engine setup. That was with the same mods to the TBI, plus carbed intake w/ TBI adapter. It would start building vacuum at about 2,700 rpm.

BronYrAur

iTrader: (1)

I'd look into a good intake now and 454 TBI or a Holley.

ironroad9c1

well i really just wanted to know that the tune was ok ,i'm either gonna be trading this car for a 95 caprice 9c1 or selling it ,or if i do decide to keep it ,its getting an lt1 installed..lol this car now is about 3,869 lbs so its up there.
shannon

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

The B-body and F-body LT1 actually only make a few more horsepower stock than your 350 is making now. It doesn't make near the low-end torque you are making.

I would get the tbi-carb intake adapter and put that performer intake on there as the stock TBI intakes stink. Another thing that will signifigantly help you is using a cheap holley 670 cfm TBI from ebay.

Also what are you running for an air cleaner? The stock caprice one has some issues in flow. It wouldn't be too hard to make a dual snorkel intake that would flow better.

BronYrAur

iTrader: (1)

An LT1 probably makes at least 40 more hp than that motor. It would also pull higher up in the RPM range.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

How can you come off saying the LT1 makes 40 more horsepower??? It makes 260 flywheel horsepower in a caprice and 265-285 in the F-bodies. He is making 205 RWHP. Most stock caprices I have seen dynoed (around 10 or so) all ran under 220 RWHP. About 215 RWHP is the normal. If the heads on this engine were ported and the ecm retuned for it power would come up by about 40 RWHP. The exhaust side of the 305 heads stink. I have essentially the same engine with reworked heads, better intake, and a better TBI. On the stock tune it made 255 rwhp.

To get to your 255 rwhp you need some mods. I have a friend with a moded LT1 that only pulled 265 rwhp. That power was added by having the cast iorn heads reworked, LT4 production cam, shortie headers, Moroso intake, and high flow cats as well as catback exhaust.

BronYrAur

iTrader: (1)

Ok I was being generous maybe 25-30 more horses. Figure an F-body LT1 should make 230-240 rwhp. There's your difference. I'm just saying comparing a somewhat built up TBI engine and an LT1 engine is like comparing apples to oranges. LT1's have way better heads and way better induction.

Now don't get me wrong, I think he could easily make the power of a stock LT1 and probably surpass it, but a built LT1 will blow it out of the water any day. You made some really good power though 255 is damn good.

ironroad9c1

thanks ,but its just doesn't seem to be right ,i think i'm gonna build this pontiac 400 i got and slap a good carb on it ,i was wanting to keep this tbi stuff ,but ,i guess if i want gas milage i got my 86 VW golf ,,lol i get 35mpg with it. thinking pontiac 400 with a 2004r built should be a good combo with this 3.42 gear i got ,might even step up to 3.73's.

ironroad9c1

sorry don't know WTF i was thinking ..lol i'll prolly just try a differnt set of heads ,maybe some vortecs and a 4 brl manifold or just go to carb.

BronYrAur

iTrader: (1)

Make sure you look into all the modifications that have to be made when swapping a Pontiac engine in. Not sure how it would be in a caprice, but there are quite a few things that need to be done in a thirdgen. Probably at least custom motor mounts in the caprice, look into it.

ironroad9c1

no i got to thinking and i would be sorry for doing that pontiac swap ,this thing needs something ,but i'm not sure what ,it just doesn't feel fast ,i had a 304 qjet caprice that i swap the 9c1 brakes and rear into and it was the same gear just seems like it was faster .maybe i just need to rebuilt this tranny ,add a trans go kit and put in this stall i got its about a 2200 stall

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

Missing the bull call of the Q-jet is it? The 305 typically has power at a higher rpm than a 350 does. My 305 was definately faster once rolling than my 355. The 355 does pull off the line better though.

ironroad9c1

yea ,i think i'm just gonna slap on a set of nice aluminum heads and a bigger tb ,but i need to rebiuld the tranny first ,i'm thinking the lack of launch is that 1st is slipping.