Ok All you guys are sayin and puttin picks up of your open air filters and I must say they look hott. I have been toying around with the idea of it. The only problem is I am unsure of the power. Some of you say it is a big improvment and stuff like that, but Some people I know ( old timers)say that there is no power that an engine needs cold air in it, and that the open air filter only puts hot engine air in. Any one got the real story???

 

Ideally you want an open element pulling in fresh air. I get that with my cowl induction hood with the cold air kit in it. Cold air = power. More air also = power. On our cars you have 4 choices:

1) stock, you get cold air being sucked through the tiny stock snorkle.

2) cold air coming through 2 tiny snorkles. Anyone who tells you the snorkles get a ram air effect from the headlight pocket has never carefully looked where the opening to those snorkles is.

3) Open element drawing huge amounts of hot air.

4) get a cowl induction or ram air hood and draw huge amounts of cold air.

Some people say it's better to have less, but colder air. Problem is, you get SO MUCH less air with the snorkles, it would have to be -50* F to get you the same power you get from the hot air open element. Also, the open element only draws really hot air when the engine is really hot and you aren't moving, like in rush hour traffic.

------------------
"Racing is life. Everything else is just waiting." - Steve McQueen - LeMans

305 TBI, T-5. 15.4@92 mph
Member Southern California Third Gen F-Bodies

AOL IM: Andy89RS

 

I put on a SS style hood on my car and an open element and noticed a good difference.I turned the bottom part of a drop base upside down so it would sit higher;right at the same level as the ram-air opening.

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'91 RS 5.0 TBI
New paint-solid black
ROH Snyper wheels-17x9 wrapped in 275/40/17
Eibach sportline springs
ASCD SS hood
Flowmaster cat-back
TBI mods
383 implantation soon to come.

 

I just put a K&N XStream flow setup on my stock 305 and it not only sounds bad A$$ but it puts me back in the seat much faster. It was $160 but I think it will pay for itself. I am going to put a cowl induction hood on this spring.

------------------
Mike Kenny
Current: 1991 RS 305 TBI
Past: 1990 RS 305 TBI (A woman forgot what red lights are for)
Current: mostly stock - newer 305 w/ 12,000 on it
Eclipse speakers all around w/ 10" tube in back
K&N filter w/XStream flow lid - It is sweet!!
Future: 2" Cowl hood

 

U paid 160.00 for that x-treame air cleaner lid for K&N? U can get it from Summit or Jegs for 56.00. Where did u order that from? By the way, any pics yet?

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI

ASCD Ram Air Hood-3" custom exaust-Flowmaster 80 Series-No Cat-Edelbrock TES Headers (coated)-March Pulleys-TBI Spacer-K&N Open ELement-TransGo Shift Kit-B&M Supercooler 28,000 GVW-Hypertech Thermomaster-160 Stat-3:42 GM Gears-Auburn Posi Unit-Edlebrock Strut Tower Brace-MSD Superconducters-MSD Cap & Rotor-MSD Blaster Coil-Rapidfire Plugs-265/50/R15 Tires-Emmison's all Gone-Free TBI mods
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html
For info on certain parts or mods go to the site below
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/modeval.html

 

Popa,

I installed a K&N 14"x2.25" air cleaner on my 89 RS. I noticed slightly better high RPM performance (by high I mean 4500+) and nothing else performance wise. What I feel is most beneficial is the sound. You can really here the engine at WOT when it's under load and it sounds good to me! You can also hear the injectors spray when you step on it from an idle. As far as negative effects, I think it takes a little longer for the engine to "warm-up", as it idles a little higher for the first couple of minutes in very cold air (like now we're in the tens and teens), but otherwise no negative effects. I did have trouble finding a good fitting breather though, and the Mr. Gasket one that's in there now is a little wobbly. If any of you have good fitting breathers out there I'd like to know what they are and/or how you did them.

I'm planning to get a ram air hood from ASCD so that it'll have fresh air blowing onto it and not sucking in that warmed engine air. I would like to make this argument though. For those saying the snorkel set up is better than the open air due to the fact that it's drawing in colder air, I'd like to propose that this is only partially true. The Thermac never shuts off the hot air from the heat stoves, when the engine is cold it only shuts off the cold are coming from outside. Regardless, you're still getting hot air from the exhaust system.

Hope this helps, any more questions on this please ask.

Jason

 

Do u have the orginal 305 still in there? If u do, doesn't the car shift at 4500rpm's? I know mine does.

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI

ASCD Ram Air Hood-3" custom exaust-Flowmaster 80 Series-No Cat-Edelbrock TES Headers (coated)-March Pulleys-TBI Spacer-K&N Open ELement-TransGo Shift Kit-B&M Supercooler 28,000 GVW-Hypertech Thermomaster-160 Stat-3:42 GM Gears-Auburn Posi Unit-Edlebrock Strut Tower Brace-MSD Superconducters-MSD Cap & Rotor-MSD Blaster Coil-Rapidfire Plugs-265/50/R15 Tires-Emmison's all Gone-Free TBI mods
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html
For info on certain parts or mods go to the site below
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/modeval.html

 

Yes I have the original L03 in there w/ 140K miles on it, but it's a stick, so I shift whenever I want.

Jason

 

Hey Papapork, Take the factory air cleaner lid and element off you car, and go out a bang on it-- then you decide,it will be comparable to the gain you will gain w/ an open air. Don't do it long, b/c you don't want to suck dirty air in you engine. Blowing off the underside hood insulation w/ air blower wouldn't be a bad idea either. I think you'll be impressed.

------------------
82 Z28 350, Ported #882 Heads, Performer RPM cam and intake, hedman headers,650 Demon carb,
Trans: Turbo 350 w/ 4000 stall -- Rearend 7.5 w/ Richmond 4.10's, Auburn Minispool
Future plans: Dart headed, Roller cammed 383 in early '01


89 RS, L03 305, Hypertech Chip,cat delete, Dynomax exhaust,K&N open element Filter,160 stat, MSD coil --Trans:700R4 Corvette Servo -- Rearend: 7.5 GM 3.42 w/ posi-lock
http://www.bassettracing.cz28.com

 

Ok whut I am gettin here is OPEN AIR is the way to go!! I never really thought of the sound wise, thanks Jason! Well I figure I am gonna have to get it. I will let you all know I think. Oh yeah one more. I go to school in Rochester NY. You think I should still put it on? Thanks guys.

 

Buy it now, wait till the spring to put it on. You won't notice anything crazy from it. Just a small increase in performance. And a different sound at idle and acceleration. I have a 14x2.25" element for sale if u want it for 10 bucks. I have enough room for a 3" element now with the new hood so I switched them out. The 14x2.25" is fully recharged too, 0 miles. E-mail me if u want it. Then all u would need to buy is the open element assembly from a part store. Cheaper then buying a new one.

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI

ASCD Ram Air Hood-3" custom exaust-Flowmaster 80 Series-No Cat-Edelbrock TES Headers (coated)-March Pulleys-TBI Spacer-K&N Open ELement-TransGo Shift Kit-B&M Supercooler 28,000 GVW-Hypertech Thermomaster-160 Stat-3:42 GM Gears-Auburn Posi Unit-Edlebrock Strut Tower Brace-MSD Superconducters-MSD Cap & Rotor-MSD Blaster Coil-Rapidfire Plugs-265/50/R15 Tires-Emmison's all Gone-Free TBI mods
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html
For info on certain parts or mods go to the site below
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/modeval.html

[This message has been edited by 91Bird305 (edited December 23, 2000).]

 

if i had known, i would have done it just for the sound. Also slight performance gain too. do it, and ive got the article here if you need it. link is below.

------------------
IM: snflupigus | ICQ: 96787192

Snflupigus.com

Open Element Tech Article

ENGINE SPECS:
Stock Rating: 170bhp & 255ft-lbs
305 TBI,Open Element,K&N 14x3,Hypertech Stage I,454 GM TBI
Now Rating: A Little More

STEREO SPECS:
JVC Kalmeleon kdlx3,Infinity Kappa 2way 6x9's,PPI 4x6 Coaxials,PPI PC2400 AMP @ 2ohm
DEI Studio 12" 4ohm DVC,Custom Box:Exactly 1 Cubic Foot

 

Varies by car. If your's is a little on the rich side then it will help (generally they are a little rich).
If you go to a better exhuast, and start doing your own few chips, youll love the results.
HTH

 

I plan on doing that mod just to simplifly the looks of the engine under the hood, and I also have a custom paint job in mind that should make it look sweeeet!

------------------
1985 Camaro IROC-Z LB9

1989 Pontiac Firebird
Formula W6S LO3 TBI 305
-180 degree stat
-Hooker Cat-Back

 

This price included a drop-pan, lid and open filter. I got it from Checkers. I hope to get some pics after I get the chrome valve covers and hose covers on, so in a week or two, hopefully.

EDIT: I really need to learn to proof read.

------------------
Mike Kenny
Current: 1991 RS 305 TBI
Past: 1990 RS 305 TBI (A woman forgot what red lights are for)
Current: mostly stock - newer 305 w/ 12,000 on it
Eclipse speakers all around w/ 10" tube in back
K&N filter w/XStream flow lid - It is sweet!!
Future: 2" Cowl hood

[This message has been edited by Neo (edited December 24, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Neo (edited December 24, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Neo (edited December 24, 2000).]

 

i run no air filter most of the time. i have found that it is worth about .003 over the 14x4 k&n i was running.

lata
tim

------------------
91 Camaro RS-LO3,Auto.
14.301 @ 94.39mph
The car is going street strip for next season. 13's here i come!!!!!
Edlebrock TES Headers, Cat Eliminator Pipe, Borla Adjustable Cat Back,Marche Pulleys, HyperTech Chip,Transgo Shift Kit,B&M Convertor(2000stall),Steve Spohn Rear Rig( all rod ends), Poly Front Bushings,Ported TB, 350 Injectors, Edlebrock Performer TBI Intake, Performer Heads, 1.6 Roller Tipped Rockers
http://www.mycar.net/mafb/registry/detail.cfm?id=299

 

.003? your car is that consistent? wow

 

I think I noticed some increased throttle response when I yanked that stupid GM casing out of my car and put in a K&N 14x3...by the way, next time you're polishing the ol' girl, throw some wax on the air cleaner lid...looks good, makes people think you have a fast car Anyway, am I just imagining things or is there better throttle response? And the sucking noise when I gun it is good, too...wasn't sure if it was air rushing in through the filter or injectors...anybody?

------------------
'89 RS LO3- 140,000 miles
14x3 K&N Open Element
Ram Heavy Duty clutch (yes, I think it's great)
Dual .50 caliber machine guns just under ground effects

Coming very soon:
Edelbrock TES (Jet-hot coated)
Catco cat
Edelbrock 3" Cat-back
KYB shocks
Edelbrock Strut Tower Brace
South Side Machine subframe connectors

When your buddy reaches for a 10-pound sledge and says "I think we're gonna have to modify the floor pan, okay?" the answer is NO.

 

Its the injectors

 

I have to diagree, I think it's the air rushing through the filter, b/c the Q jet on my original 82 Z28 305 sounded exactly the same as my TBI 305 does with an open element.

------------------
82 Z28 350, Ported #882 Heads, Performer RPM cam and intake, hedman headers,650 Demon carb,
Trans: Turbo 350 w/ 4000 stall -- Rearend 7.5 w/ Richmond 4.10's, Auburn Minispool
Best ET: 12.52@107.2
Future plans: Dart headed, Roller cammed 383 in early '01


89 RS, L03 305, Hypertech Chip,cat delete, Dynomax exhaust,K&N open element Filter,160 stat, MSD coil --Trans:700R4 Corvette Servo -- Rearend: 7.5 GM 3.42 w/ posi-lock
New Best ET: 15.03@92.7
http://www.bassettracing.cz28.com

 

If it is the air then why does it make the sucking sound at idle speed? Obviously there is no air being sucked down the valves cause there closed. Thats why I think its the injectors.

 

Your engine IS sucking air at idle, if not, it wouldn't be running. The injectors make the clicking/ticking noise you hear when the air cleaner is off. At idle, since the butterflies are closed, the air the engine is running off of, is having to be sucked through very small, very restrictive passages, therefore, creating the sucking noise at idle. A carb does the same thing, and it no injectors.

------------------
82 Z28 350, Ported #882 Heads, Performer RPM cam and intake, hedman headers,650 Demon carb,
Trans: Turbo 350 w/ 4000 stall -- Rearend 7.5 w/ Richmond 4.10's, Auburn Minispool
Best ET: 12.52@107.2
Future plans: Dart headed, Roller cammed 383 in early '01


89 RS, L03 305, Hypertech Chip,cat delete, Dynomax exhaust,K&N open element Filter,160 stat, MSD coil --Trans:700R4 Corvette Servo -- Rearend: 7.5 GM 3.42 w/ posi-lock
New Best ET: 15.03@92.7
http://www.bassettracing.cz28.com

 

your engine is always sucking air when it is running. Also when you gun it, the whooshing is from the air going past the injectors into the tbi between the injectors and tb creating turbulance hence noise.

Ticking is injectors, whooshing sucking = air. this sound was already there, but you couldnt hear it because gms aircleaner is also a silencer. factor ****. Same thing happens on other cars if you replace their airbox etc.. with performance, increase in noise level of intake and engine.

 

Ah I see, where does it suck in the air from when the valves are closed???

 

If you want to know what the difference feels like, just flip your air cleaner lid upside down. I did this for a stint when I still had and LO3 and noticed a difference. Im not saying this is the ultimate setup......just a way to get an idea of the difference. Dont jump on my back.

And by valves, do you mean intake and exhaust or mearly tbi butterflys?

------------------
91 RS W/carbed 350, Vortec heads, performer rpm, Comp cams Xtreme energy 226/230 duration and .477/.480 lift. BFG Drag radials. 3.42 posi,Corvette servoed 700r4, ****ty stock converter.
13.24@104

[This message has been edited by vortecfcar (edited January 08, 2001).]

 

valves meaning butterflys?? sound from air going thru the iac passage and/or tb.

valves meaning intake valves, they open and close pretty fast, you wouldnt hear when they were closed, besides. the sucking you hear is from air rushing twards a vaccum that is in your manifold. There is a vaccum there all the time when your engine is running. vaccum is synonimous with suckin is it not.

your not gona win this one, there is air sucking in thru your tb whenever your engine is running.

[This message has been edited by snflupigus (edited January 08, 2001).]

 

nonono you DONT want most of your air going through your IAC you want as little air as possible

the butterflies dont completely close my good man there is a small gap (this is why you turn a screw that adjusts idle against the throttle arm on the tbi unit)

the gap is important for MOST of the idle air to go through because that is what atomizes your fuel and that is why its important to have an injector spacer such that injector spray cone aims just above the edges of the throttle blades so that the fuel can be sucked right through.. the sucking through that tight space does a wonderful job of suspending all that gas, and if there is no suction through there, or little, as was the case before i modified some IAC functions *happens with big cams* your fuel distribution is horrible because the fuel prettu much just drips down off the throttle blades onto the plenum floor, you need it sucked, hence sheared, into teeny molecules ready to jump and mix with the air. Sorta like putting your thumb over the end of a hose with only a corner peaking out so water can go by resulting in a fine mist

and the noise you hear is a combination of injectors and air

 

i know pablo, i was just making the point, that as long as your engine is running, air is being sucked in making noise somewhere.