I can get some heddman headers.. are they worth it, I know they are inexpensive but im sure they are way better than stock on a tbi... gimmy some feedback tho

------------------
89 RS 305 TBI
Edelbrock 14x3 OE intake, Hypertech Chip, Street & Strip shift kit, flowmaster exhaust w/ high flow catco cat.

 

on a job like that u either do it once and get it right or dont do it at all. Its not like changeing ur oil filter. This is a big job. If u have a stock 305 i wouldnt recomend them IMO. U will loose low end power and u will have to red line ur motor the really notice where they improved power. BUT if u do have to do headers get the SLP stainless headers and y pipe. Thats the best and most inexpensive way to do it due to the fact that they do not require coating which is like a 200$ process+ shipping.

------------------
1989 pontiac firebird
bright red exterior(just repainted)
grey interior
5 spd
305 TBI (stock)
WS.6 formula wheels
3.73 posi rear end
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/Mikey89.html
-------------------------
1985 trans am
factory bright yellow
4 wheel disks
16 inch wheels
305 TPI
power antenna and mirrors
t tops

 

Damn, OneFine, I am always agreeing (sp?) with you. Yes, I believe headers on a stock 305 will not really improve daily street driving, which is what you njoy most of the time anyway. However, if you plan on future mods, it is good to have this foundation there. Headers will make more power later on with intake mods, etc. I have the Edelbroch TES headers, uncoated, for so long I can't remember when I put them on. Not one problem, except for a gasket failure due to my own ignorance. I put mine on with the engine on the stand, a little easier, lol. But yeah, they suck to put on. Lots of beer and pizza for that one.

------------------
Jerry

-------------------------
89 RS Lt Blue T-Tops T5
355 Crate, Compucam 2040
Pst Front Hotchkis Rear
Edle. TES 3" Flowmaster
Harwood hood, bla, bla, bla...
94 Z28, LT1 6M, Black
Most of the bolt-ons
-------------------------

 

No offense, but isn't anything better than the stock exaust manifolds on our cars? Seems like when I added my headers I felt a small decrease in tq under 2500+ rpms but a lot of improvement beyond that. None of the less, better than the stock exaust manifolds. And I heard my cure to my problem is just adding a resinator though and I gain back my small amount I lost down low in torque. But I gained tons of HP and I gained more torque in the 2500+ rpm range. That doesn't sound like a bad deal to me.

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI
"It Ain't Stock"
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html
For info on certain parts or mods go to the site below
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/modeval.html

[This message has been edited by 91Bird305 (edited February 07, 2001).]

 

Eric, you always seem to read my mind.
I agree, how can anything be worse than those stock manifolds. I would run the car now(if you havent already) and then put the headers on it and run it and give us some feed back to really give us some true numbers on this long argued conversation. Im not trying to flame you guys, i just dont see how you can free up air flow and lose power. I say go ahead and get them, especially since yhou are getting them cheap.

 

ok let me refrase that. Headers are a good mod for a motor that isnt stock. If the factory manifolts werent enough flow for the stock motor than gm wouldnt have put them on there. Now i can see adding a set to compliment ur new heads and high lift cam but with a stock motor its not a good thing to do. Eric i cant explain y u would feel n e differnce down at 2500 rpm. Headers dont do n e thing until 3 grand and even the differece at that is very minimal on a stock motor. I mean it is deffinetly a good foundation for a motor u plan to mod. Hell even myself, i wouldnt mind a set of slp stainless sttel headers for my TPI trans am. But i wouldnt expect n e huge # increases and thats on a motor with like 40 hp more than a stock TBI.

BTW great minds think alike 89rs355

 

I disagree with you 8T9. I've got an '88 with auto and 305. It's been quite a while, but a friend of mine got '92 RS (auto, stock besides a Flowmaster). At the time the only things that I had were a set of Dynomax headers and 2.5" cat-back (!cat). We ran 'em just for the fun of it and I walked all over him. Later on he got a set of headers and a cat-back and we were dead even, so it wasn't that he had bought a dog of a car. I would recommend headers and exhaust as a first mod to anyone.

-Mark W.
'88 SC Camaro w/ 305 TBI

 

I know, I don't get this? Headers aren't a good mod for a stock motor? I haven't done heads/cam/intake on my engine but I felt a SOTP difference when I ran it before and after the headers.

 

alright lets think on this one
the redline is there because thats when the engine stops making power. i own a 91 rs L03
190@4500 AND 255lb ft @2500 most others are the same. now if you said it doesn't get torquey till 3000 then you've blown all of your torque by putting on headers
and if you have to get it up to redline to get it going thats going to wear out the engine prematurely. AND i love the deep rumble you get at idle not the loud incessant whining you get at redline, so i would wait to have headers put on so i can still blow the doors off the other guy by touching the gas pedal and not having to romp on it to go fas IMHO


------------------
1991 RS LO3
mods: 14" chrome air cleaner, straight-piped after cat exhaust with one chrome dual tip on the left side.
future mods: headers, removing smog equipment, and as many cheap mods as i can find
aol s/n: budman8503

 

good luck beating anybody without going over 3000 rpm bud.

let me get this straight. 8t9. do you have headers?
i bet you wouldnt want to put the stock manifolds back on if you did put em on.

personally, i would love to have headers right now.

 

I didn't get headers to race under 3000rpms. I can't beilve this is even a topic. Don't put headers on ur cars and don't get an exaust until u have done internal mods to your block. Oooook. Amen to Nic's comment.
BTW: Who doesn't like loud 4000+ exaust noise when racing? I don't know about whining but it sure as hell roars.
------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI
"It Ain't Stock"
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html
For info on certain parts or mods go to the site below
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/modeval.html

[This message has been edited by 91Bird305 (edited February 08, 2001).]

 

WOW! all you have to do is touch the gas to win races. Thats it im convinced. Im selling my headers. Oh yeah, one more thing. When you just touch the gas and win races, does the other guy know that you are racing?

 

Dang, and all these years I have been doing it backwards! Part throttle, not full throttle. Thanks man!

------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI
"It Ain't Stock"
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html
For info on certain parts or mods go to the site below
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/modeval.html

 

my brother just put headers on his "stock" mustang and picked up 2 tenths in the quarter mile. But he floors it. I bet you if he put the stock headers back on it and went at part throttle he would go even faster.

 

John Force probably goes part throttle when he hits high 4's over 300mph.

 

This is totally stupid. Headers do not drop the torque! I've done header installs on three camaro's now, two of them were stock L03's, I mean bone stock. The other one was my car, but it had a 327 at the time. the two cars with the L03's went 0.2 second faster in the 1/4 mile! They made a huge difference in the whole power band, torque was up throught the whole thing, including below 2000 RPM's. Stock manifolds are not made to make power, their a cheap way to get the exhaust from the engine to the exhaust system, their not made to make huge flow! GM didn't design the L03 to be high performance, just good on gas and a little quicker then V-6's.

Do the headers, you will not loose power from making your engine breath better.

 

O.K. "8T9", I just read this thread for the first time and my jaw nearly hit the floor. I sincerly hope you are trying to put all of us on, with a moronic recomondation to avoid headers?! But sadly I know your not.

Headers do not kill low end torque, or any kind of torque for that matter. Headers enhance torque. And guess what, they acctually make headers that enhance torque at ALL KINDS OF RPMS!!! They make headers for winston cup cars that enhance torque at 8000 RPM, and they make headers for jeeps that enhance torque at 1200 RPM. It all depends on the application.

Let me remind you of something, One'fine', because I know you've read this before. My car stock was 170hp -same as yours. I put on HEADERS(Edelbrock no less), 160 T-stat, advanced the timing and raised the fuel presure and ran a 14.5 @ 95mph! That equates to ~215-220 hp. How in the hell can you say headers are not a good mod on a stock 305?! My motor couldn't get much more "stock" than it was at that time.

I'll tell you what, 8T9. How about you get your *** up from your stupid computer, and put some headers on YOUR car. Then I dare you to come back and tell us that you (or "u" as you like to type it) lost power, torque, or ANYTHING. All you will get with headers, if you ever work up the ***** to do such a mod,(which is EASY BTW) is more torque, more power, MORE.

8T9, I would like to recommend that all of your(oops! "ur") posts include a disclaimer stating that you have done NO mods, and as such, you really have NO real hands on experience or idea what your talking about.

Seriously, no flame intended.

TMoNeE, get the headers. I don't care what kind, ANY of them will be way better than the stock garbage.

 

I'm another good example. I bought my 91 completely stock. First mod was tri-y headers. Instant power noticed at all rpms. The only reason it "felt" not as smooth was because the stock TB was so small and same with the cam. What you might be thinking is exhaust. An open exhaust right after the headers can have adverse effects on your low end torque. I know that after I installed my 3" exhaust I felt two things. First it was too big and so low end torque had been lost because of the WHOLE exhaust system being way too big for the current 5.0 and peanut cam crap intake. If you have the correct cat-back size then headers will do ALL good.
About the exhaust manifolds being made because they were cheap. That is true but also it is a fact that the thick cast manifolds are more durable. Headers will help any car, even a lawn mower. I remember when I bought some headman headers and y-pipe, I had to return them because I needed the air tubes, that was a pain. Solution was to get the tri-y stainless and I'm so glad I did.

------------------
, Jon (91 RS too many mods to list), getting new engine in summer

 

lol I can't believe I haven't read this till now. Hey Eric, remeber when we were arguing with onefine about headers last time? everyone is on this one though

------------------
-Tas
'89 Formula WS-6
[soon to be Torch Red with black hood and headlights =) ]

305, TBI, auto, 14x3 chrome flat based open element with K&N, Milodon 160* thermo, functional Formula hood, cross-flow Flowmaster, '99z28 rear pipes and tips....

Super GRK_Taz World
EFI & Intake Options
AOL IM: superGRtaz
ICQ 82881207

 

I'm not saying not to install headers. Crap, I have headers on every car I own, even on my girlfriends car and I had to fab those from scratch. But I do think that expecting a "noticable" gain during -daily- street driving with nothing but headers on a 305 tbi is expecting too much. Different in the 1/4 mile where you are winding her out, but I'm talking about daily street driving. Also, remember that one persons seat of the pants gain might not even be noticed by someone else. It all depends on how sensitive the seat of the pants device is. Mine is calibrated just to the cars I own and drive everyday and don't do much to judge someone elses gains. Unless it's huge like 25hp or so.

------------------
Jerry

-------------------------
89 RS Lt Blue T-Tops T5
355 Crate, Compucam 2040
Pst Front Hotchkis Rear
Edle. TES 3" Flowmaster
Harwood hood, bla, bla, bla...
94 Z28, LT1 6M, Black
Most of the bolt-ons
-------------------------

 

LoL @ Tas, yes I do remember that. Looks like everyone wants to respond to this one.
Who does mods for just daily street driving? I do a mod cause when I hit the gas hard I want to feel my car pull harder than it did before. Only mod I could think of for daily street driving would be like ignition mods just for smooth idle.
"Great Minds Think Alike" LMAO!
------------------
Eric Natzke
91 Firebird 305 TBI
"It Ain't Stock"
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/91firebird.html
For info on certain parts or mods go to the site below
http://members.aol.com/j007golden/modeval.html

[This message has been edited by 91Bird305 (edited February 09, 2001).]

 

quote:
originally posted by onefine8t9:
"if the factory manifolds weren't enough flow
for the stock motor than gm wouldn't have put
them on there."

This has to be one of the least thought out comments I have ever read but it sure gave me one hell of a laugh. Onefine8t9, do you think gm cared about the flow #'s on the lo3?
They restricted it on purpose in the form of exhaust, intake, cam, etc.... to keep the z28
305 faster than the rs. Mods that replace these bottlenecks will provide power.

 

i agree with pete, gm would put them on if they didnt flow enough, because they would and did put a tbi on that doesnt flow enough, and an aircleaner lid that doesnt flow enough, and heads that dont flow enough, and a. ok you get my point.

the aircleaner is the main one that REALLY doesnt flow enough for the motor. the rest, i just wish flowed more. well hell, i guess all of em flow enough, the car runs, but not for performance

 

ok guys ur comments are great. But guess what. I HAVE DONE IT BEFORE AND SAW THE RESULTS. dont even try to tell me, i odnt come one here to try to BS about something thats so stupid. Headers will KILL LOW END TORQUE thats a fact. The only ones who dont wanna admit it are the suckers that spent well over half a grand for .2 tenths of a second If u have a motor that requires that much flow than get headers but a stock 305 TBI doenst require the amount of flow headers will give you. Ok dont take my word for it. bolt them on and try it out.

hmm i dont think thats what i said was it. I said HEADERS ARE NOT A GOOD IDEA FOR A STOCK MOTOR UNLESS U PLAN ON RED LINEING IT ALL THE TIME, but hey if u dont have a car thats worth of **** that red line away. what do u have to loose

that is such a generalistic statement it makes me sick. If u had a clue what u where talking about u would realize that headers do nothing more than make ur exahaust flow better. When i increase flow to much u start to slow down exahaust gasses and thats what kills ur low end. Just think about it

ya ok so ur telling me u gained nearly 50hp from headers. damn 51 posts and still not one of them are worth reading

lol ya i know i dont have the "*****"to do headers. U dumb ****. I am just not stupid enough to spend all kinds of money on .2 in the quarter. its not worth it since i dont drag my car.

lol yup im clueless. If only i knew what i where talking about. lol Becouse i havent done a mod to my car doesnt mean i havent done it before. Just remember one thing i have been on these boards for almost a year now and i havent asked one question pertaining to a problem with my car and yet it sits in storage with no problems. Hmm go figure. The only advice i get off this board is maybe RPO codes or the potential one mod might give. I can handle my own car w out the help of a computer

JPREVOST u just said what i been saying from the beginning. With the stock TBI unit and cam headers werent all that good. Exactly so on a modded motor they are good right?? isnt that exactly what i said?

lol ya ok eric keep beatin on that tired motor with over 100 grand and let us know who much headers really helped

Pete92rs what do u think GM went out of thier way to make a car restricted?? its not like it would have been that much moreexpensivefor them to add a higher flow manifolt. The stock motor is required to have exahaust gasses exit a certain way. Thats y if u do the whole exahaust thing u might get a check engine code. lol IF gm where to pruposely restrict flow on the RS cars so the Z28s are faster than couldnt they have just added a larger diameter manifolt for the z28s(according to ur theory)?

 

I just needed to clarify something, sorry about reopening but...I didn't say what you've been saying from the beginning. I said that the power didn't feel as smooth because I had HUGE gains and then a drop after 4800rpm. That is what I said and sorry if it was unclear. That's all. Oh yeah, and please stop with the flames. Go to some untech board for that crap. Just post opinions and try to do some strong research to back up any claims. I'm out.

------------------
, Jon (91 RS too many mods to list), getting new engine in summer