thomas1976

Nice set ups, thanks for sharing! A little more pics with description would be great too.
How well do they learn? anyone had to pass emission test yet?


Edit: found some nice pics with description on the internet
http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/eng...or-efi-system/

cc 82Z-28

iTrader: (7)

Here in Ohio I am running Historical plates since the car is not a daily driven vehicle so I don't do the e-check for emissions.

firechicken_3

iTrader: (4)

No emission testing here in Iowa.

It seems to learn pretty quickly, I watched a video of a Holley system on the dyno, the pulled a bunch of fuel off the table and it put it back on in just a couple pulls.

One minor thing I think I am fighting is the low vacuum signal of my cam is not letting me take full advantage of "cruise" timing and AFR settings unless I am severely abusing the speed limit or sticking to 5th gear to be in cruise RPM range of the camshaft. Probably hurts me a little on cruise MPG but it still pulled 20mpg sticking it on the highway and running 150+miles at speed. This is one of the areas I would like an experienced tuner to look at for me if I can find one.

I have over 1500miles on the system now and I believe it is done learning aside from odd temperature extremes that it hasn't seen yet. Only issue was the bad TPS out of the box and one morning it didnt want to start and stay running struggling for air I found the IAC stuck closed for some reason likely a piece of debris jammed it up, if you look at the throttle body you will see how this could happen when the air cleaner is off. I gave the plunger a tap and it resumed normal operation. In that situation the ECU was seeing the stuggle to idle and was commanding the IAC to move open.

cc 82Z-28

iTrader: (7)

Well, getting ready to start my install this coming week. I just finished painted the bracket that I had made for the ECU that I am mounting under the hood on the drivers side inner fender. I think I have most everything to get this done except for a few miscellaneous things that my pop up. I will take some pics once I get started so you can see my progress. What is your cam lift and duration? Mine is .564"/.574" with 110* LSA, ought to be interesting.

firechicken_3

iTrader: (4)

My cam is a Comp XE274 hydraulic flat tappet. advertised duration is 274/286 duration @.050 is 230/236 lift with 1.5 rockers is .487" / .490" its got a pretty fair lope to it in a 350 but not out of control it idles relatively smooth at 775-800rpm I can take it lower but with the manual trans it gets bothersome.

Lift won't hurt you its the duration is the part that will mess with you a little, much like a carb you have to stay a little rich at idle to compensate for the overlap. Idle timing is a big key as well.

cc 82Z-28

iTrader: (7)

Thought I'd fill you in with my start of install. I finally got started this week, got the ECU mounted on the drivers side fender well where the wiper bottle used to be, made a nice bracket to mount it. Got under the car to prepare for removing gas tank, it is ready to come out, just have to remove the straps, everything else is disconnected and clear. I was prepping the throttle body and discovered that the Bow Tie Overdrives bracket setup that I use to control my 700R4 trans would not bolt up to the Holley lever assembly on the Terminator, they made a change to the assembly from what the lever assembly is on the 4150 carbs. For those who do not know what that system is, they have a great system for controlling the shifting of a 700R4 trans, that comes with one of their tv cables, a special spring that goes in the throttle body to replace the stock pieces, and really nice bracket assembly bolts down under the carb and has brackets that when all put together works perfectly with no surprises and some really great fine tuning abilities. So I contact the company that manufactured the system and they do have a new bracket setup for the Terminator but I had to send my throttle body to them since it was something that cannot be installed by the end user, so that is where my throttle body is at and they said they would do a 1 day turnaround as soon as it arrives, I sent it out yesterday. They are great family owned business that cares about customer service. Hopefully tomorrow I can get the fuel pressure regulator installed where it will go and get the spot marked and drilled for the O-2 sensor and get the tank all the way out so I can get started on installing the new tank and pump assembly. I will post up some pics later.

cc 82Z-28

iTrader: (7)

One thing that will no doubt make a difference is that my cam is a hydraulic roller unit with full roller valve train pieces so it is more forgiving with my idle as well as vacuum.

cc 82Z-28

iTrader: (7)

Firechicken, are you running full length headers or shorty headers? I am trying to figure out where to place the O-2 bung, my headers are shorty style with a y-pipe and the headers are wrapped and there's just no room under there so I am planning on installing it in the y-pipe on the passenger side between the oil pan and starter, it gives me the most room to install it in the downward position and be able to get access to it as well. I'm getting close, just waiting for my throttle body to come back from Bow Tie Overdrives with the new bracket for my 700R4.

firechicken_3

iTrader: (4)

I have longtubes and full length duals, I put it in the passenger side pipe just past the collector flange due to having noise reduction inserts in the actual collectors. Its not completely vertical I am probably 30 degrees above horizontal with it.

I'm trying to remember where the bung was on the set of shortys that i used to have way back when and I'm thinking it was just in the actual collector of one side or the other same with factory manifolds, not sure if the wide band is more sensitive to heat than a factory run of the mill O2 sensor or not.

If there is room I would think that location should be fine, pretty sure there is a software setting that can be adjusted to help compensate for being closer or farther away from the collector, not exactly sure how it works since my location fell inside the suggested distance so I left it alone.

-AO-

O2 placement tuning is done in the Closed Loop Speed setting based on 1-5. Set it at 5 if it is very close to the engine. Set it at 1 if it is way back after the collectors. I set mine at 4 since my sensor is before the collector on my shorties.

cc 82Z-28

iTrader: (7)

Another question for you, where did you hook up your vacuum reference line for the regulator? Did you go to the throttle body and if so which do you use, ported or manifold vacuum? As soon as the throttle body gets back I can bolt it up, make a couple more fuel lines to it and the regulator and begin the process of downloading a file to the ECM and getting this thing running. I have the car back together and I'm anxious and a little nervous hoping that I didn't forget anything and it actually starts up without much trouble. I'll keep you posted.

firechicken_3

iTrader: (4)

small port back of the throttle body next to pcv port. remember to set your fuel pressure at 43lbs with the vacuum line disconnected

Ronny

iTrader: (1)

Do not use ported vac. I chose to use the brake booster fitting. I tapped into the top of it and used a small nipple same size as what is on my FPR.

firechicken_3

iTrader: (4)

the small port at the back of the throttle body is full time manifiold vacuum. i have the brake booster on the large port with a t to connect the heater control vacuum. and then i have the pcv valve connected to the front port on the throttle body that comes with a plug in it.

cc 82Z-28

iTrader: (7)

Well, got everything together, fuel pressure set at 43 psi, ran through loading the ecu after answering the questions in the wizard screen, did tps autoset which was ok at 0% started car and it came up running and it would die, start and die, at which time I started looking at the iac position and right now I have been talking to Travis at Holley and my problem is getting the tps and iac set properly. I can get the tps to zero but the iac will not below 28% and it is supposed to be between 2-10 and the car is hunting with the idle. It was time to quit for now and rethink this since I am getting no where, so I can't drive it yet since I can't keep it running. My problem is with setting those values correctly according to Travis.

firechicken_3

iTrader: (4)

IAC will go to hold position if the TPS shows anything more than 0. for example you do your autoset but had to open the throttle blades to make it idle is going to push it above 0% Personally I took a piece of duct tape and covered the IAC port set the idle screw so it would run and warm up. once i was just above my idle set point i stopped did a TPS autoset, ensured i had a zero reading. I then removed the tape and restarted the car, at this point assuming you are at or close to operating temp back the idle down untill you get that 2-10 % Now shut it down and do another autoset to tell it where 0% really is. Mine sits about 2-5% hot idle it bounces a little with the cam duration.
I think its possible that the high IAC % that you see is part of the startup and ramp down procedure, and as it ramps down the IAC closes and it isnt getting enough air to stay alive.

cc 82Z-28

iTrader: (7)

Ok, today came home and as you said got the car warmed up so that all 3 LED in the gauges screen were green, good to go, then I proceeded to bring my idle speed down 1115, my IAC % was at 3-6% and my TPS stayed at 0 and it settled right in there. Then I did the throttle hold at different rpm's, I have yet to drive it since I need to make sure I have my tv cable set properly, don't want to burn up a 2000.00 trans. When I was setting my IAC I used my thumb to cover it, I started with a little and kept working with idle till I covered the whole the thing and then did the TPS reset and then things progressed from there, that's when I came home today changed my target idle speed to the 1115. Some of this can be confusing for sure and I am trying my best to get a grasp on it. I did move the one value from a 3 to 2 since O2 sensor is more than a foot away from my collector.

cc 82Z-28

iTrader: (7)

Well, I tried to lower my target rpm to 800 and now my IAC is stuck at "0" and I can't get it to change, car is idling at the 1115-1300 rpm. The TPS is at "0" but now I went in the opposite direction with IAC. According to the manual I need to screw the throttle blades so they are more closed, but it doesn't help me with trying to get the IAC in the 2-10 range, what am I missing here? I tried to move the car and it about dies, then goes to a high idle and I really have to hold the brake I moved it in and out the garage so I could keep the fumes out. So much for plug and play, it's not what I was expecting at all at this point. I want it to idle down around 750-800 since that is where the carb idled at that I took off.

firechicken_3

iTrader: (4)

back off the idle screw just like you would a carb, rpm should come down as you do. you may need to back off the idle screw on the secondary side also. set you target in the handheld where you want it 750-800. as you back the idle screws out and the throttle blades close rpm comes down, once you back off enough that it wants to drop below your target speed the IAC will begin to open to bring it back to target. once you see your iac at 2-10% shut it down do another TPS autoset and you should be good to go.

not sure if the manual says it but you want to get the primary and secondary throttle blades nearly even at idle according to the folks on the holley forums. just something to keep in mind as you work on setting idle speed, if i recall correctly i had to close the secondarys on mine out of the box to acheive my idle speed of 775


One thing that has messed me up a couple times....when you are in the handheld and lets say setting idle or any other item that you is a slider of sorts you MUST click the hat switch once you acheive your desired setting to save it. If you just arrow to the back button and click out of the screen it wont save your change.

Hope that helps so you can get out and enjoy your car.

cc 82Z-28

iTrader: (7)

There are 2 screws that control the butterflies? I only thought there was the big knurled one under the TPS. Right now I am at about 1000-1050 rpm and everything is as it should be, but honestly, I didn't know there was a separate screw for both the primary and the secondary. I did get the car out last nite and took a couple of short rides and as everyone says, the more you drive it the better it will get, but I am amazed at the crisp throttle response. I am going out later today to get some gas to check my fuel gauge, a little more driving both city and highway and see how it reacts. Do you have any issues restarting once it all warmed up and say shut it off to say pump gas and then restart? Thanks for your help and guidance.

firechicken_3

iTrader: (4)

yes there is a second screw for the secondaries

http://www.holley.com/data/Products/...R10653rev3.pdf

page 7 secton 8.2 look just above the secondary shaft you will see the stop lever and the screw it runs horizontally it is a small flat tip with the head to the rear. adjusting the secondary should not have any effect on the TPS but if you have the primarys completely shut you should try to balance them as best you can at your desired rpm.

As for restarts I have no issues hot or cold. The only thing is that if it dies because of a stall out i have to shut the key off wait 5-7 seconds and then restart. something to do with the ECU resetting and enabling everything. I would guess if you had no issues with the carb its highly unlikely you will have issues with the Terminator.

cc 82Z-28

iTrader: (7)

I took another swing at the knurled screw and backed it off another 1/4 turn and then did the reset of the TPS and the AIC is right where it should be now. Took the car to the gas station to fill the tank to make sure the gauge reads full and it does, I'm guessing 16.0 gallons which is my window sticker says, Rockauto where the tank came from say 14.5 so who knows I guess. Right now I have the idle set at 875 and it likes that, but it does run a little rich at cruise, idle is ok, not sure if I want to mess with AFR at this point, may be too early in the learning curve of the system. The only other issue I'm chasing is when I come to a stop it will sometimes almost stall but then recovers and the next time it will be fine, not sure what that is all about yet. I've put a post on the Holley Forums for Danny to see what his take is on what's going on with the car. I'll post some pics once I figure out how make them smaller to post.

cc 82Z-28

iTrader: (7)

Ok, here you go. I also ordered the usb cord so I can hook it up to my laptop. After working with Danny from the Holley Forums, I decided to go ahead and order it so I can do some fine tuning. I was experiencing some neart stalling when I came to a stop but otherwise the car has been running fine and getting better.

cc 82Z-28

iTrader: (7)

One more.

cc 82Z-28

iTrader: (7)

Have you checked your headers at the tubes near each cylinder? The car is running good now but I found yesterday after about 1/2-3/4 hour drive that the 2 center cylinders on both side were anywhere from 450*-500* and the front and rear cylinders were actually cooler, 325-350* which I find kind of strange. It was hot enough to melt the convoluted tubing covering some wires on the passenger side which I found troubling since it was a good4-5" away from the header and my headers are wrapped. Also, when I went about 2/3 throttle getting on the freeway and hit 3rd gear the car just flat out died but didn't stall out, it was like it completely leaned out. I have the data cable coming from Holley and I am going to have to toggle the data logging feature so I can what is going on. I fattened up the cruise and WOT a 1/2 point to see how it acts but otherwise it really runs strong. You were right, it is a totally different animal with the EFI.

firechicken_3

iTrader: (4)

I would suspect center tubes will likely be warmer due to heat soak since they are closer together, not sure if that is an acceptable difference or not.

Its possible that it hit a spot it hadn't learned yet and depending on how much the learning is tweaking base fuel tables it was to much difference causing it to die? Remember it wont learn during a sharp throttle movement.. Not sure what your fuel level is and i would highly doubt it with your in tank pump and i assume baffled tank but maybe it sucked air? that will make an injected engine quit right now. Im running the original un baffled tank original pickup in my 84 with the pump inline against the back seat slope and have run the car down to where i put over 12.5 gallons in it with no issue.

Data log might not be a bad idea for you at this point. I didnt buy their cable i just grabbed an old camera cord with the correct end and used that. Although holleys cable i thing actually locks into the ecu so it would be better.

cc 82Z-28

iTrader: (7)

Thanks for getting back to me. The tank was just below the full mark, and for the throttle, I was accelerating in slow deliberate motion as like you said it does not learn during a flat footed hit the gas move and I was at about 5,000 rpm and shifted to 3rd gear when it happened. I pulled a couple of plugs to check and it is a little lean, the carb I ran was always on the fat side, so I went in and checked the target A/F and change the cruising from 14.0 to 13.5 and WOT from 12.5 to 12.0 to see how it likes that, the car is running really good and according to the handheld unit has learned many of the areas since it was down nearly zero in many spots of learning. I had to fatten up the Fuel Prime from the 110 that mine was at to the 140 shown in the manual, that helped the starting a lot. Have you down the data logging to the handheld unit and if so what do I need to do when it comes time download it to my pc? I have a lot to learn when it comes to that stuff since I have never done anything like that with a car. I consider myself pc literate and understand most things related to computers, but this will be new territory for me. Again, thanks for your replies and help through all this.

firechicken_3

iTrader: (4)

I fiddled with data logging a little but not enough to be a help to you. Granted I am smaller cubes than you and am running ECU controlled timing, but i believe my Idle is at 13.5 WOT at 12.5 and Cruise is at 14.3 I used the street strip setting when doing my initial engine setup. This won't be much help to you at this point but on the timing side I have it at 15 deg cranking, 26 deg idling WOT is 30 and Cruise at 42 i believe. My motor is roughly 10.25-1 with GM Vortec Heads and 4 relief flat tops. My plugs were clean with 1000 miles on them, i havent checked again yet.

I do feel like on the WOT side i could add some fuel as it sort of levels out before it should given the cam specs and such.

rsrmoore

I've enjoyed reading this thread and I've learned a few things. I'm fixing to purchase a holley ECU for my car. I have already bought my D1SC procharger. I already have the holley stealth ram intake. I will be upgrading my fuel sytem. I plan on installing 65lb injectors, new regulator and a new in tank fuel pump. Are you guys still happy with your fuel pump choices? Is there was anything you would do differently with self learning system?

firechicken_3

iTrader: (4)

i will be going to an in tank pump this fall, but only because my sending unit has about had it so i have to rely on watching miles to ensure i dont run out. When we did Power Tour and the car sat idling for over 3 hrs in traffic the external pump was starting to sound very ragged and noisy so there while it survived there is something to be said for the cooling effect of being submerged in the tank

cc 82Z-28

iTrader: (7)

I like the Bosch pump that I am using in the tank, and overall am pleased with the system as a whole, just need to finish dialing in a couple spots.

cc 82Z-28

iTrader: (7)

When I head back out today, I am going to turn on the data logging feature to see how it works and to find out what's going on with the fuel map. My data cable will be here tomorrow so I can download it to my laptop and see what it was doing while driving. I'll let you know hat happens and what I find. It's been great to talk with you about your car and what you have learned thus far and hopefully people who read these posts can appreciate the time it has taken to get where we are in these projects and hopefully it can it help them with any questions they may have.

rsrmoore

I have been very influenced by this whole forum about what my plans are for my car and what parts I will use. I read alot before I purchase something. Like my procharger. This site had many people who loved there prochargers. So I made my choice based on this site the people remarks on here. I also would like to thank you guy's for all info you have shared. You might see some more questioned in the future when I purchase my holley ECU.

cc 82Z-28

iTrader: (7)

Sunday when I came home from a cruise/show I pulled in the garage and opened the hood to hook up my battery tender and noticed that my headers were cherry red and that was only after a 5 mile drive home. Monday I took out a couple of plugs and I was running really lean so I changed my A/F target from the 14.0 in idle and cruise to 13.5 WOT from the 13.0 to 12.5. My idle was still kind erratic so I hooked up the USB cable I got on Monday, which is nice unit that does screw into place to lock it in, to see if I could see what was going on. I toggled a data logging session as I was driving home on Sunday which was good thing since I discovered the cherry red headers, low and behold it was running 15-18.0 in cruise and the fuel pressure was in the low to mid 30's. Did a bunch more reading and decided to recheck my timing which I bumped to 16* initial and then vacuum advance takes it from there and it is now good. Today I disconnected the fuel pressure vacuum reference and plugged it off from the vacuum source and then I took a piece of vinyl tubing and slit it open and slid it over the tach signal wire going to the negative side of the coil on my setup figuring that if the wire is picking up some noise from being back by the distributor and wires that it would help shield it much like a plug wire, it seemed to help that and the car ran great today. Pulled a plug from the center on drivers side and it was a nice tan color, not the white I had on Monday when I pulled several plugs. So, I think I am making some progress, I changed the ramp down decay on IAC valve from the 4.0 seconds to 2.0 and a couple of other changes to that area and got my idle down to 875 rpm and more stable as well. Haven't figured out how to make changes using my pc instead of the handheld unit. One screen I was in showed that the engine was only listed as a 350 so I bumped it to the 406 I have. I look at the fuel screens and can't see what I need to do to make a change, but there is a ton of information on the various screens for sure and when you zoom in on them you can really begin to see how your fuel A/F runs and mine was at least running linear. When I was driving this evening the fuel pressure stayed at the 43 psi so for the time being I am leaving it unplugged from the vacuum reference. I'll keep you informed as I go along, one thing for sure is the difference acceleration is like night and day in my car, I wouldn't of believed it if I wasn't experiencing it myself.

firechicken_3

iTrader: (4)

Fuel pressure will drop with vacuum applied to the regulator, Mine runs around 33-35 crusing but when I nail it the pressure goes back up as vacuum drops off.
I have seen much debate over this since it is a throttle body setup. However the brass tacks are that the injectors are below the throttle blades and are thus under vacuum so use the vacuum reference. I believe Danny said it can work either way but that is the "right" way.

Low timing will cause the excess heat and glowing headers too so you are probably on the right track there. Those AFR numbers are abnormal for sure, while I haven't datalogged i have watched the handheld as i drive and when it settles in at a cruise speed it runs pretty much dead on the setting for me.

cc 82Z-28

iTrader: (7)

The data logging feature is pretty cool and there is a ton of stuff to look at for sure. I read more posts concerning using the vacuum reference or not and Danny does say in several posts it will work fine, I think it comes down to what works for any one engine. I may try it again soon but for now I will let it learn the current setup.

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Great post guys! I too have been seriously thinking about getting either the MSD Atomic or the Holley system, but as CC said the Holley system appears to be much more upgradable.

In my case, I'm not only looking for whatever system I get to run the car, but it also needs to work with boost as well. Since I only run a max of 8 pounds of boost and make somewhere around 550-600ish at the flywheel I think either of these systems would work. I gotta admit though, I'm a little disappointed to hear about these running on the rich side…but I assume as it learns (and you learn lol) it will lean out a bit and gain a bit more power??

I love the film of Firechicken's car starting right up and idling from cold….I've never been able to do that with mine! I used to run a XE274 cam back when I was running NA, so I know it's a difficult cam to deal with as far as idling is concerned. And CC - nice clean engine you have there! Love those valve covers…do they sell those with "408" stamped on them?

Again, nice post…more pics!

Procharged GTA

This is a fantastic thread!! It will be very useful as we just received our new Holley 550-406 Terminator system for our 383 and Magnuson 122 supercharger, almost exact build as Confuzed1 build, except his is a 408 and ours is a 383. I'm not sure when we will start the install, but I can't hardly wait! we are gonna be using a laptop for doing some of the setup for ours, because if im doing my research correctly,there are some features that cannot be adjusted with the handheld for forced induction, but it doesn't sound like a big deal at all....

cc 82Z-28

iTrader: (7)

Yes, lots of things can be done with the Holley, and as I found out, it will lean itself out with a little learning and tweaking of the parameters. It definitely gives you the feel of more power in my case going from a carb to the EFI. I did what some of you are doing, reading threads and posts in different forums to find out what worked and didn't work as well as the sometimes not working due to a self inflicted problem by not following directions. I compared them all when I was looking to go EFI and it was not all about costs, lots to do with upgrades, history of a company's product and since Holley uses this same throttle body in some of the Nascar divisions the past few years and it is a proven product. I'm not saying the others are necessarily bad, but some are just a little better than others, jmo.

cc 82Z-28

iTrader: (7)

Thanks for the compliment, I actually did those up myself, I found the valve covers I liked that had the baffles I wanted and then I found a website that sold those chrome numbers that are made for automotive applications and the red Bow Ties are from the local parts store, I believe Autozone and stuck them on after centering them up where I wanted them. It all came together pretty good and given all the wires there are, I just hid them to the back at the firewall in plastic loom covers to protect them, it's as good as it gets since these cars don't lend themselves to having cavities to hide wires in like other models that has say removable inner fenders and such.

Procharged GTA

This is the exact reason we chose the Holley over other systems. These guys have been doing injection for decades, and the system will always be upgradable, where as others may not. Some companies come out with the "latest and greatest" and discontinue the previous product, making it impossible to get parts for, let alone upgrades. In the research I've done, I found the Holley has a TON more features than most other self learning efi systems out there, one big one being that the Holley has a true Timing Table that it controls just like OEM injection, where as others "control timing" too, but you enter what Initial and Total timing you want and what RPM you want it all in at, and that's what it does no matter how much or how little load it's seeing. The Holley has a true "Load Sensitive" timing table just like the Fuel Table and operates just as OE injection does, atleast that's the info I have found in my research anyway. But there is also a BUNCH of other features too that others does not offer.

Brian

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

Ahhh! Really nice then! No wonder I hadn't seen those on any other car. I have valve covers on mine that have 400 on them…I figured close enough…lol (it's actually 408-ish)

A quick question on your fuel system…you went with a stock 3rd Gen TBI system correct? Is there a cost benefit over say, using the Aeromotive Phantom system? I kinda like the idea of using my existing tank - if it's possible..and since it was/is a carbed car, it has a 5/16" return line already.

Darn it Brian….I thought we were both looking at the Atomic system. and now you've got me looking into the Holley system!

I do know one thing…I'm pretty tired of needing to run on the absurdly rich side using a carb with my blower. It could be my total lack of tuning skills, but every car I see with a roots blower smells the exact same on startup and while idling.

I'm not 100% convinced a TBI system will totally rid me of the rich idle, but it should adjust a lot better while cruising around I'd think. The Holley system looks just as good as the MSD, but as you and CC said…the Holley has a lot more up-gradability (is that even a word?!?) lol

Looking at the article in Car Craft (EFI Shootout) - They include a Dominator tablet in their parts section…that thing costs an additional 708 dollars!!! Is that needed? Also, this same article doesn't mention specifically adaptable to boost….is it?

Can I make my own timing table to do something like not backing off on timing till I hit a few pounds of boost? I can see getting more power out of the engine by being able to do that….I basically am looking for a bit more power across the entire rpm range I use the car at…on the street, up to 6K rpm's…occasionally..lol

Not saying it's a slouch by any means as is….but I'm tired of changing black plugs and killing all bugs within a 1/2 block while sitting at traffic lights.

Here's basically what I want to be able to do with any of these systems...
-be able to tell it to maintain an A/F ratio of 13.0/13.5:1 in all operating conditions.

-Limit or control the timing as needed to prevent detonation and get the most power from the car. Do any of these kits have knock sensors? Can I lock out the advance on my Mallory Unilite and use that with the Holley?

-And foremost, be reliable!

Being able to upgrade to me is just nice, but I don't plain to do any upgrades in I the near future....I've spent more than I could ever justify on the car already. But I like fast,fun cars!

firechicken_3

iTrader: (4)

@confuzed, a stock TBI system wont work as it only runs about 14 lbs.

The terminator setup requires 43psi and something like 400lb/hr of flow at that 43psi. I went with the low dollar holley fuel system kit with an external inline pump, their regulator a few fittings and earls pushlock hose. Its a little noisy and while it got pretty ragged sounding during my long wait in traffic that one time it is continuing to do its job several hundred miles later. Once it cooled off it returned to its normal sound and has stayed that way. I didnt worry to much about mounting it low, its on the vertical section of floor that the back seats rest against where my factory carb lines run along. As for ability to pickup fuel, I have run it low enough to require 12 1/2 gallons to refill, I think a factory carb tank is around 14 gallons.

cc 82Z-28

iTrader: (7)

Yes, I bought the fuel tank, sending unit with hanger assembly, Bosch pump delivered to my door from Rockauto for about 350.00 so there was a savings and being that it is a stock setup the 14 gauge power wire on the Holley wire harness is the size that GM used since it draws less than the 10 amps so no special wiring needed, less hassles and costs. The Bosch pump will do 65 psi and you only need 43 psi. My car also has the 3/8" feed and 5/16" return lines so it was good to go. As for the tablet, that's one I will do later, I just use the hand held and leave it in the car then when I do a data log I just plug my pc in and download it and check things while car is running.

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

That shows I know nothing about stock TBI systems...lol. So CC must be using a TPI system then....or just the tank it sounds. I do like the whole concept of the Aeromotive Phantom kit though. It is a bit pricey however. The articule I read mentioned having to keep your tank almost half full or higher when using an inline pump to ensure it has good suction...is that your experience, or do they exaggerate a bit? I think you are right...my stock fuel tank (carbed car) is either 14-15 gallons...

Thanks for the info! I think my fuel feed line is around 3/8" and I'm pretty sure the return is 5/16". I may go the same route and get the fuel injection tank...who's to say my pickup will come out of the tank anyway? It wouldn't surprise me if it's not pretty crusty since it's been in there since '83...

Why the need for a separate tablet anyway? For more options? Which ones? I'll keep researching, but it seems like a neat system!

firechicken_3

iTrader: (4)

I think the biggest thing about the inline pump is keeping the suction line side of it short. The sooner you can get it pushing fuel the better off you are. I have not had any starvation issues as of yet, but then I dont road race the thing either, just some back country spirited driving at times.

I used the factory supply and return lines which were 3/8 and 5/16. I just cut a section out to add the inline pump. and on the front end i bent the return up the firewall to hit the regulator. and the feed is still running forward and looped around i will collect fittings and stuff to clean up that end of the install and do that during winter layup, there is a picture back up there somewhere.

timing curves are programable and you can use ignition boxes and standard later computer controlled distributors like the small cap hei. I believe knock sensors can be added but by default are not in the terminator kit.

You can do the basics with the handheld, but can also connect a laptop to open up many more options. Being forced induction you will likely need to change the map sensor, along with some specific tuning that cannot be done via the handheld.

I would suggest looking at holleys forum for more answers specific to the forced induciton end of things.

cc 82Z-28

iTrader: (7)

Thought I'd give a little update. I have been chasing a couple of issues that were minor but still, I wanted to get a handle on this thing. Well yesterday I was meeting up with a couple of guys to go to a benefit car show, car started and ran fine where when I reached the place we were meeting up and shut it off. Went to leave, couldn't get it to start and when it did start I could not even touch the gas and it would die. The handheld unit kept giving me error messages and would not let me do anything, so I shut everything off and disconnected the power to the ecu for a few minutes, tried again, still nothing. Went home got my laptop and was able to at least get it running enough to get home, turns out I somehow corrupted program I was using in the ecu and so I got it home and shut it off and let it sit for about 1 1/2 hours. Went back out and using the handheld unit, was able to go to the wizard and reload the ecu, this time with a completely different program, the one where when you have to tell it street, strip, or mild street, or factory stock, or "don't know" which all of these are basing your choice on the camshaft you have in your car. I know my cam specs but there was no way I could the car to run without messing with a lot of different parameters, so this time when I reloaded the ecu I chose the "don't know" and loaded that into the ecu. Drove it today, wow, what a difference, car starts right up and idles down to the target rpm and took it for a ride and it is a completely different car, nite and day difference. So I am convinced at this point to use the I don't know selection in the wizard and let the ecu learn from there. I drove for 15-20 mins varying my speed and rpm's and it was great.

Confuzed1

iTrader: (4)

That's good info! Honestly, that's one of the issues I've heard with literally ALL of these systems…not just Holley, but MSD, Edelbrock too….the either hard or no start after shutdown. Also one of my biggest fears getting stuck in the middle of nowhere and possibly having to run home somehow to grab a laptop.

Just a wild guess, but I'd assume the "strip", "street" etc. - sounds to me at least like you're selecting a "canned tune" type of program that you can select as you say, based on cam specs etc…and it enters hard numbers in the ECM so it'll run with those.

But - It makes me wonder if the ecm doesn't "learn" from there, but sticks with those base parameters no matter whether the engine is hot cold or whatever. Again, just guessing…seems silly if that's how it works. Suppose to be "self learning" no matter what one would think. But you did say the program got "corrupted" somehow…maybe that played the biggest part in the no start situation?

Perhaps selecting the "I don't know" allows it to learn where the sweet spot is. It definitely sounds like the way to go since you say it makes a big difference!

BTW CC-82: Are you basically using a TPI fuel system to feed this? Or just the tank?

firechicken_3

iTrader: (4)

I believe that mostly gives it a baseline AFR fuel and spark table based on cam size. I dont think its in the manual but it is posted over on Holleys forum somewhere what cam duration ranges those correspond to.

Mine seems to be running well, but maybe I will save my current tune and start over once for fun

cc 82Z-28

iTrader: (7)

I believe now that the "don't know" selection is the way to go for sure. Before that, I was chasing different issues that I just couldn't get a handle on. I would correct one problem and create a different problem because of the change. The manual does stat in some places that a change in some given areas will affect all areas of running and tuning and now with the very basic calibration selected the ecu now learns what your motor is and how it runs with your driving style. I've been driving it now for the past 3 days and each time I start it and drive it gets better, the idle is great, restarts are a non-issue and overall runs great. I have not tried wot yet since I really want to let it learn, but I have been increasing the throttle to eventually see wot. Gas mileage has definitely gone up, I would of run through a lot gas by this time but it has not, I will do a real world gas mileage run soon to see what it gets now. My carb I would get about 15-18 on freeway in 4th gear with the my 700R4 trans. I still can't believe how different the car runs, I was beginning to think I would throw the carb back if I couldn't get it to run. At 59 years young and somewhat computer literate, I figured I would figure it out, but using a laptop for the first time to do what can be done to these systems can be a little daunting for the first time programmer. Young people today that are hot rodding the newer cars understand this a whole lot more given you go to a local test and tune and you see laptops as they make changes to their cars without getting into the engine physically, I find that to be pretty cool. I just need to learn more about it and for now, I am going to leave well enough alone, or as I like to say, if it's not broke, don't fix it.