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TBI on my 5.0 V8. Can Stock 305 TBI & 1227747 ECM support 300 hp ?

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Old 01-01-2017, 05:59 PM   #1
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TBI on my 5.0 V8. Can Stock 305 TBI & 1227747 ECM support 300 hp ?

Updated.

I have a stock GM TBI and I am looking to MircoSquirt or use original 1227747 ECM on my Ford 302 (Explorer 5.0) that is in a 1964 Ford Falcon. The only mod I made is little hotter cam which is a Trick Flow Stage 1.

The TBI that I have is a Chevy 305 V8 TBI with 55 #/hr injectors.

Can the stock TBI support my setup which estimated to make about 300hp ?

Can I use the stock ECM or would I need to use something like MicroSquirt ?

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/t...view/make/ford

Thanks

Waid

Last edited by waid786; 01-06-2017 at 04:08 PM.
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Old 01-02-2017, 03:32 AM   #2
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Re: MircoSquirt on Ford 302. Can Stock TBI support 300 hp ?

Is this a Ford "stock TBI" or a GM "stock TBI"?

Given that GM installed very few Ford engines in Camaros, I'm guessing that there's not a lot of Ford TBI experience here. I've been wrong before, though.
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Old 01-02-2017, 09:45 AM   #3
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Re: MircoSquirt on Ford 302. Can Stock TBI support 300 hp ?

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Originally Posted by Schurkey View Post
Is this a Ford "stock TBI" or a GM "stock TBI"?

Given that GM installed very few Ford engines in Camaros, I'm guessing that there's not a lot of Ford TBI experience here. I've been wrong before, though.
Sorry for not being clear.

I have two GM TBI's with the computer and wire harness. With bigger mods, the MegaSquirt may be the way to go over the stock GM Computer.

Thanks

Waid
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Old 01-02-2017, 10:24 AM   #4
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Re: MircoSquirt on Ford 302. Can Stock TBI support 300 hp ?

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Originally Posted by waid786 View Post
Sorry for not being clear.

I have two GM TBI's with the computer and wire harness. With bigger mods, the MegaSquirt may be the way to go over the stock GM Computer.

Thanks

Waid
WHICH two GM TBIs? Two 454 TBIs and a single 454 computer? Two one-barrel "crossfire" TBIs and a crossfire computer? A small-block and a 454 TBI, and a V-6 computer?
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Old 01-02-2017, 01:10 PM   #5
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Re: MircoSquirt on Ford 302. Can Stock TBI support 300 hp ?

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WHICH two GM TBIs? Two 454 TBIs and a single 454 computer? Two one-barrel "crossfire" TBIs and a crossfire computer? A small-block and a 454 TBI, and a V-6 computer?
I have the Chevy 305 V8 TBI. I believe this is good for about 500 cfm.

My motor is actually a Ford Explorer 5.0 and still have the original port fuel injection upper and lower intake but I want o maintain classic look with a TBI.

Thanks
Attached Thumbnails
TBI on my 5.0 V8.  Can Stock 305 TBI & 1227747 ECM support 300 hp ?-tbi.jpg  

Last edited by waid786; 01-02-2017 at 01:19 PM.
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Old 01-03-2017, 10:24 AM   #6
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Re: MircoSquirt on 5.0 V8. Can Stock TBI support 300 hp ?

With those injectors (55 #/hr) you need to bump the fuel pressure up to 28 psi to support 300 HP. A FPR spring for/from a '94 - '95 BBC TBI unit is one way to do this.

RBob.
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Old 01-03-2017, 02:01 PM   #7
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Re: MircoSquirt on 5.0 V8. Can Stock TBI support 300 hp ?

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Originally Posted by RBob View Post
With those injectors (55 #/hr) you need to bump the fuel pressure up to 28 psi to support 300 HP. A FPR spring for/from a '94 - '95 BBC TBI unit is one way to do this.

RBob.
That's great news RBob. The Explorer 5.0 also has a crank trigger and also cam position sensor. I don't want to use the big upper and lower intake with port fuel injection, which I have, but want to keep the carburetor air cleaner classic look. I am already using the GM 8-Pin HEI module with my Ford Distributor.

I already have 1227747 ECM (3 of them!) and truck wire harness. Can the stock ECM support my setup without re-tuning ?

I can get GM ECM cheap at my local Pic-a-part. Is there other GM ECM that will work better for my setup ?

I also have the Ford EDIS. Is there any way to distributorless ignition EDIS with TBI?

Thank you,

Waid
Attached Thumbnails
TBI on my 5.0 V8.  Can Stock 305 TBI & 1227747 ECM support 300 hp ?-49e6a4eb-8558-43b1-96a6   TBI on my 5.0 V8.  Can Stock 305 TBI & 1227747 ECM support 300 hp ?-f274b221-e846-4f96-a058   TBI on my 5.0 V8.  Can Stock 305 TBI & 1227747 ECM support 300 hp ?-6c18433e-2697-42a5-8751  

Last edited by waid786; 01-09-2017 at 03:37 PM.
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Old 01-09-2017, 05:08 PM   #8
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Re: MircoSquirt on 5.0 V8. Can Stock TBI support 300 hp ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by waid786 View Post
I already have 1227747 ECM (3 of them!) and truck wire harness. Can the stock ECM support my setup without re-tuning ?
Tuning is required, doesn't matter which system you get.

Quote:
I can get GM ECM cheap at my local Pic-a-part. Is there other GM ECM that will work better for my setup ?
Try the 16197427 PCM.

Quote:
I also have the Ford EDIS. Is there any way to distributorless ignition EDIS with TBI?
Not easily with a GM ECM.

RBob.
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Old 01-09-2017, 06:47 PM   #9
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Re: MircoSquirt on 5.0 V8. Can Stock TBI support 300 hp ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RBob View Post

Try the 16197427 PCM.

RBob.
I am not cheap but I am trying to avoid investing several hundred dollars in to flashing and re-tuning the old PCM. I make sense to invest in something like MicroSquirt with much more capability. I have 5-Speed.

So I read that 16197427 is much improved over the older one. I can get it for $20 and wire hardness for $15 (may be able to re-pin my old one).

Would 16197427 PCM also require re-tuning?

What issues will I have with non-tuned PCM?

Please forgive my ignorance

Since I have the 1227747, I was thinking about just trying it as is and see what happens.

Thank you

Waid

Last edited by waid786; 01-09-2017 at 07:54 PM.
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Old 01-09-2017, 07:07 PM   #10
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Re: MircoSquirt on 5.0 V8. Can Stock TBI support 300 hp ?

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Tuning is required, doesn't matter which system you

RBob.
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Old 01-18-2017, 06:04 PM   #11
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Re: TBI on my 5.0 V8. Can Stock 305 TBI & 1227747 ECM support 300 hp ?

With adequately sized injectors and fuel pressure, sure it'll handle 300.

You mention wanting that classic carb look but want to go distributorless ignition? Kinda ruins the idea if you ask me. Plus the wiring harness will be exposed anyway unless you redo the whole thing and really tuck it away.

Personally, I'd never give up good working SEFI system (especially the GT40 Explorer version) to go back to TBI, unless it just wouldn't fit under the hood of the car. it's the only thing that won't require tuning or extra money, but it is going to have a restomod look when you pop the hood.

I have a Ford with TBI. It's there because it already had a 4 barrel intake manifold and cost me $100 for sensors, TBI unit and throttle body, plus whatever the Moates emulator and socket booster cost at the time ($200?)
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Old 01-18-2017, 08:24 PM   #12
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Re: MircoSquirt on 5.0 V8. Can Stock TBI support 300 hp ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RBob View Post
With those injectors (55 #/hr) you need to bump the fuel pressure up to 28 psi to support 300 HP. A FPR spring for/from a '94 - '95 BBC TBI unit is one way to do this.

RBob.
RBob, I checked the part numbers on the injectors. It looks like I have 2 of each.

#5235279 - White / Green - 54pph - 5.0L / 305 Cars/Trucks
#5235206 - Orange / Black - 61pph - 5.7L / 350 Cars/Trucks

If I use #5235206 which are 61pph, would I still need to bump up the fuel pressure to 28 psi?

I am going to keep the distributor and not go EDIS.

Thanks

Waid

Last edited by waid786; 01-18-2017 at 08:28 PM.
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Old 01-19-2017, 08:47 AM   #13
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Re: MircoSquirt on 5.0 V8. Can Stock TBI support 300 hp ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by waid786 View Post
RBob, I checked the part numbers on the injectors. It looks like I have 2 of each.

If I use #5235206 which are 61pph, would I still need to bump up the fuel pressure to 28 psi?

Thanks

Waid
Will require 22 psi.

RBob.
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Old 01-22-2017, 02:26 PM   #14
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Re: MircoSquirt on 5.0 V8. Can Stock TBI support 300 hp ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RBob View Post

Try the 16197427 PCM.

RBob.
RBob,

So I went to my local salvage yard and picked up 16197427 computer. I open the cover and this was inside! Not sure what to make of it. I also picked up the chips from various 16197427 PCM's such as 350, 305 and even a 4.3 V6 all for $20! The wire hardness for 16197427 was $7.

I bench tested my old 1227747 PCM with my Ford distributor and all sensors hooked up with the automatic and seems to work and fire the injectors when I rotate the distributor.

Waid
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TBI on my 5.0 V8.  Can Stock 305 TBI & 1227747 ECM support 300 hp ?-jet-chip.jpg  
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Old 01-22-2017, 02:51 PM   #15
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Re: MircoSquirt on 5.0 V8. Can Stock TBI support 300 hp ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by waid786 View Post
RBob,

So I went to my local salvage yard and picked up 16197427 computer. I open the cover and this was inside! Not sure what to make of it. I also picked up the chips from various 16197427 PCM's such as 350, 305 and even a 4.3 V6 all for $20! The wire hardness for 16197427 was $7.

I bench tested my old 1227747 PCM with my Ford distributor and all sensors hooked up with the automatic and seems to work and fire the injectors when I rotate the distributor.

Waid
Looks like the perfect start to be able to chip your PCM to me. That is a piggy back adapter for your Memcal. It is a Jet chip setup, but those flash chips are merely inserted into the adapter and piggy back into the stock memcal, bypassing the stock chip. Should be able to run something like a 27F512 flash chip in that secondary socket. Moates.net offers a very similar adapter that I have run time and time again for these setups and similar TPI setups.
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Old 02-09-2017, 11:12 AM   #16
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Re: MircoSquirt on 5.0 V8. Can Stock TBI support 300 hp ?

Hi Wade, Hope your project is coming along well. Tuneability is going to be valuable for you with this unique combination of parts. There is certainly no reason why this won't all work together, you just might need to play with the spark and fuel tables a little to get it where you want it. The benefits of EFI over carb are many. To make the best of them, tuning is the key. To make 300hp from the factory 302, you may also want to look at better cylinder heads. Ford Racing offers the Cobra (G42s I think?) heads, Trickflow also makes some great heads for the small Fords.

To tune from the driver's seat you need an EEPROM. This allows you to tune on the fly using software and a laptop. A wideband O2 sensor is important here to help you keep your fuel trims in range. There are so many different user tuning options available today. I'm not familiar with the flash chip that Fast 355 is talking about. I have experience with ACCEL DFI and have seen good results with Megasquirt. Since you're using GM hardware, there is also a piggyback programmable interface(can't remember the name) that I've heard RBob talk about before. Ask him about it.
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Old 02-09-2017, 03:30 PM   #17
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Re: TBI on my 5.0 V8. Can Stock 305 TBI & 1227747 ECM support 300 hp ?

My project is coming along well. I am working on finishing my exhaust and also DIY Electric Steering from Nissan Versa and also from Toyota which I may post in this forum. Check this out:

http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/mo...cs-videos.html

I finished modifying the 1227747 wire harness form S10 TBI and bench tested and the injectors fires great using my Ford distributor for trigger. I also bench tested the 16197427 and injectors fires.

Recently, I also got my hand on 454 TBI for $50 which may not be needed. I also picked up 5235206 61pph injectors for $10. I have read that with stock GT40 heads & TFS1 cam, I will make about 275hp.

I am not after max horsepower just little better starting and readability.

Thanks



Last edited by waid786; 02-10-2017 at 02:34 PM.
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Old 02-14-2017, 11:51 AM   #18
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Re: TBI on my 5.0 V8. Can Stock 305 TBI & 1227747 ECM support 300 hp ?

I have read that with stock GT40 heads & TFS1 cam, I will make about 275hp.

I am not after max horsepower just little better starting and readability.

Thanks

That sounds about right. The GT40 heads are what I was thinking of from Ford Racing. Trickflow makes some direct fit twisted wedge street heads that perform better than the GT40s. More money though.

Electric power steering. Really going high tech on this project. It will save horsepower and clean up the under hood.
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