Marin

I get all the usual symptoms:
- lights can start, fan can start
- temp guage pegs when I try to crank
- SIR passes autotest
- brake light autotest

I have VATS, no security light.
I have a chip on a key.

Can't crank it.

I don't think it's the P/N switch, since it doesn't let me put the key into off position unless I am in park. Tried shifting to neutral and cranking, doesn't work.

Any suggestions?

Marin

And the lucky numbers are:
Code 32 = EGR system: restricted vacuum hose to EGR solenoid or valve; poor electrical connection; open or short in circuit; defective EGR solenoid; defective EFR valve; defective ECM ... I have had EGR problems for a while now..

Code 42 = EST = Poor electrical connection, open or short in circuit; defective ESC module; defective knock sensor; defective ECM --- must have something to do with my trying to set the timing a couple of days ago-- I didn't reset the codes...

Code 53 = System over voltage ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Charging system problem....

Nevermind, just did a search.. So it is VATS. I guess I'll be doing a VATS bypass soon...

RJR99SS

Have you tried using a another key by any chance? that could very well be your problem right there.

but heres a tip on diagnosing VATS. you can just try to jumper your starter....if you can get under there to do it.

If its a VATS, the starter will rotate

NOTE: the starter will just rotate, it wont crank the engine if its a VATS problem

If it dosnt spin, then you're doing it wrong or its a bad starter...

i did a VATS bypass on my 89, its not too hard. the hardest part was dealing with the jag-off radio shack people to get the resistors.

SMasterson

I have a suggestion.

Hit the starter with a hammer, then try to start it.

If it's the starter dying but not completely gone, it almost always works. If it starts you know it's not your VATS or neutral switch.

Marin

Thanks guys! OK, so here's the battleplan:

- I don't have a spare key (I'm a third of fourth owner, not quite sure) and it's time to get one. I read somewhere ACE copies VATS enabled keys. I measured the resistance for it (though I am sure they can do it).. the resistance is 885, one of the possible 15 or so.

- I'll try with the spare. Maybe that fixes it.

- I'll jumper the starter. If it doesn't rotate, I'll "apply" a hammer to it and see if that does it..

- If starter rotates, it's 50000% a VATS problem. Time to wire that resistor in..

- If the starter doesn't rotate, then it's Summit time...

1PTR315

Take the kick panel off at your left foot. There is a relay there . Disconnect it and jumper the yellow wire to the purple wire. Hee hee, no more vats.

Marin

Hm, I don't think you're right, dude. I have an EFI system and VATS is supposed to send 55Hz squarevawe signal to my ECM. If my module is really fried (as opposed to my ignition lock being dirty and not sending the right resistance anymore), I'd have to not only jumper the starter relay, but also generate that signal using a 555 or something like it.

dsaint1347

If you are going to jump the starter [there is no such word as "jumper" make sure you have your emergency brakes on and try to run a remote wire to the starter cable. My car did the same so when they jumped the starter the took off in reverse, turns out the shifter cable broke. That was why it did not start ,it's a safety feature.

Marin

Cleared the codes last night. ECM doesn't set off any codes. Means it probably ISN'T VATS, but that that code got triggered while I was testing for fuses.

Checked the transmission cable, had someone shift while I was looking at it. Moves normally.

Gave juice (+12 V, directly from battery) to the S terminal on starter (B in Haynes). Has a purple wire on it:

- nothing happens. The wire gets a little warm. No sounds, nothing. The wire sparks upon connect/disconnect.

Gave juice (+12 V, directly from battery) to the M terminal on starter. Nothing happens.

Tried tapping it with a hammer in several places. No results.

Conclusion:
Starter shot.

Any opinions?

RB83L69

Ummmm..... buy a new one?

j/k - maybe it's heat soak

Marin

Just made a voltmeter test. No crank -- purple wire [at (S) terminal] = 0V, crank -- purple wire [at (S) terminal] = 10V.

I can't believe it died so quietly. This could explain why it took longer to cold-start the car than it did before.

What's a good aftermarket starter? In Pep Boys, a stock one runs for $70. In Murray's it's $90.

Is it worth trying to fix this one?

Marin

OK, I replaced the starter motor with a rebulit one from Pep Boys ($70)... It worked fine, making a distinct clank when it would start cranking.

Now, it almost left me stranded.

I heard a clink, the lights dim a little, but nothing happens. I try again... clink, same thing.
So after a couple of times it goes clink-crank-crank-crank-crank and then it starts...

I don't want to be stranded somewhere who knows where needing a new starter and a tow

1987gt

go to autozone $30.00 lifetime warraty theirs a deal for you lol