GTA91

iTrader: (1)

JMatlcock... have any pics of the duals????? THX!

89 Iroc Z

Whats the name of this software package?

87transam5.7tpi

hey JMatlock88
can you please list all fo the info for that motor? that is really impressive. also what modifications do you have on your drivetrain? thanks

racereno

Now THAT'S what I'm talkin 'bout It just shows what puting together a plan based on good research of component compatability will do for you. While the cheaper desktop dynos may be a little off on the final numbers they will still point most members in the right direction. I'd recommend them to anyone considering their low cost.

JMatlock88

Here are 6 video clips of the dyno footage. I split it up so it would be more modem friendly. I hope you like 'em!
:lala:
On the recent guestions about exhaust and my combo, I'll get back with you soon. It's been a busy week! Later!
video1 video 2 video 3 video 4 video 5 video 6
Thanks to bort for letting me use his server!

DURTYBIRD

I'm getting sound, but no video.

jimmy_mac

When you gonna take it to the strip? Are you gonna do that in Tulsa also? Let me know when, I wanna watch.

JMatlock88

You need to download the divx codec at www.divx.com. It is very simple to do.

I plan on taking it to the strip when I get a hood and some wheels (draglites or comprable). Yes, it will probably be tulsa or noble. If you know of anyone in the area who has a cowl hood for sale or wants to trade a set of ROH ZS 16s for some fat/skinnies, let me know.

The software is called Performance Trends

The basic mods are:

1969 350 4 bolt main .030 over
all name brand bearings, etc
all arp fasteners
forged crank and trw forged pistons
polished aftermarket ibeam rods
afr 195 68cc street CNC port
224 224 560 560 retro hydro roller custom grind cam
1.6 Crane race gold rockers
hardened pushrods
moroso pan
sfi 8" balancer
sfi flywheel
ministarter
stealth ram
58mm BBK
afpr
SVO 30s
msd pro billet distrib
crane hi-6s
accel supercoil
alum waterpump
alum 3 piece udrive pullies
hooker supercomp 1.75" longtubes
dual exh w/ 2 40 series flows
stage II 700r4 w/ torco 3100 lockup stall w/ antibalooning
150 NX shark nozzle w/ 10lb compucar bottle and solenoids
completely full interior w/ a/c and all options except ttops, rear defrost, foglamps.
brakes are stock
wheels are Ronal Firehawk 17s
aluminum 1le driveshaft
10bolt w/ 28 spline moser axles, 3.73s, cclip elim, alum stud girdle
spohn control arm lowering brackets
hotchkis control arms
ssm sfc's
...that's a general look at the driveline

I tried snapping some pictures of the exhaust, but I'm gonna need to put it up on jackstands to take pictures.

dunerida82

O sh*t son! Thats awesome looking dude. :rockon:

LETHALRACER

I have the 236/242 cam and a Mini Ram on my 383 right now. It makes decent power. I havn't tuned the car and I run mid 116 in the quater on street tires, getting in and out of the throttle. I can't really hit it till third. I got a clean pass the other day and ran 126 on the G-Tech. I am running the AFR 210's with a bowl blend. They flow 300cfm@.600int and 261cfm@.600exh. I just orderd a single pattern 242/242 .576/.576 because of the 89% int. exh. ratio. I think I am putting down around 415-420 at the tires. It pulls to the rev limiter at 6,700 with no rev kit. You should be able to run 11.40@116 with 380 at the tires. I am also running Hooker LT's with dual 3" and an X pipe, and a little more compression than you guys, 11.2:1. The car weighs 3640 with me in it.

BadSS

Lethal - 261.6 cfm @.6” is remarkable for a 23 degree std exhaust port head with 58cc combustion chambers and “a bowl blend”. In comparison, Weldtech’s fully CNCed ported “Hutter” 18-degree “NASCAR style” heads with 1.625” valves are “only” flowing 256@ .6 and 261 @ .7”. I’d like to know what size valve is being used and who did the work. If you’re sure his bench was not off,, and even though I’m sure more had to be done than just a bowl blend,,, I’d like to talk to the guy.

89gta383

iTrader: (5)

His intake numbers are in the link below, under ported AFR 210, I don't have his exhaust numbers.

I wouldn't exactly call an AFR 210 CNC comp porting, plus hand porting, a 'bowl blend'. http://briefcase.yahoo.com/bc/micdoc...+tests&.view=l

LETHALRACER

BadSS. I know the exhaust seems out of wack but it is the truth. Brian Tooley at Total Engine Air Flow did the bowl blend. The heads have a 1.60 exh valve. They were flowed at 28" of water with a 1 7/8 round flow tube. With a square to round flow tube they flowed even more. All he did to them was smooth the CNC out of the port and the bowl. The only thing done to the bowl extra was blend it into the valve. Hence the "bowl blend". I went rounds with a nother guy about a year ago and posted my charts and the argument was over. 89gta383 posted my intake numbers. I guess he doesn't have the exhaust. Shoot me and E-mail and I can fax or scan both charts and graghs and send them to you. I don't know how to post them on this sight. I think Brian put my heads on the CNC computer of his to get the profile. He was as shocked as any one else. You can see from the charts that they were flowed on a Flow Pro bench with computer read out on different days. The flow was done with a 4.030 bore which hurt intake flow because of the small chamber and the 2.08 int. valve. Research " insane flow numbers " I can't remember if it is on this site or on www.camaroZ28.com.

Damon

I'd like to point out a few things to those who are rightly impressed by this thread and it's author's accomplishment:

1. Notice how every shot is operating room clean? Yeah. That's how it SHOULD be. That's the environment you should build engines in for a million different reasons. Frankly, I'm embarassed beacause my shop (detatched garage with a bare 100W light bulb) doesn't even come close.

2. RESEARCH WAS DONE PRIOR TO PARTS CHOICE WITH AN EYE ON THE TOTAL COMBINATION OF PARTS. He ran dyno simulators. He read the specs on the heads. Who here would have recommended a cam as small as what he used? Who would have recommended a single pattern cam, for that matter? Probably very few. Total combination is VERY important.

3. He tuned the snot out of it. From 308 RWHP from "best guess" first chip program to 380 final best program. 70 HP In 10 itterations of programming! How much time have you spent tuning your combo? Have you spent this much? A fuel injected combo will always require more attention to detail by it's nature, but don't think you can slap on a carb and bypass all this tuning effort- they ALL require tuning. I personally think most people leave about 30HP on the table by not spending the time to dial it in exactly. And that's almost FREE HP, except for your time and effort.

Congrats and let's hear about those dragstrip times!

BadSS

Lethal - It's not that I doubted your numbers as much as I knew there had to be more to the heads than just a bowl blend. I understand why you said that and maybe I should have known better. Anyhow,,,,,, the numbers certainly make more sense knowing they're Competition ported AFR heads reworked by Total Engine Airflow. Still,,, that's extremely impresive exhaust flow. No joke,,, I'm going to call these guys the next time I need a serious set of heads.

And what Damon said - Excellent job Matlock!

JMatlock88

Thanks for all of the nice comments you guys have made about the selection of the parts and the care I took with the project. I am a proponent of being clean because it really saves time and money in the end. I've been reading these boards since early 1999, and I owe almost all of the knowledge and research to these board archives and TGO friends.

For those of you who were wondering, this is almost exactly what my exhaust looks like. This is the picture I took to the muffler shop to explain what I wanted. It hangs very low, but I can live with it. The exhaust is the same except I have a stainless LT1 style tip (exits parallel to the pinch weld) insead of the round tip shown. I plan on changing to dr gas oval someday when I have an extra $800 lying around.

LETHALRACER

Sorry BadSS. I just get a little defensive because of all the grief I have taken in the past on the flow numbers. TEA and Brian Tooley are great. I would definatly give them my next set of heads.
JMatlock88. I ran my exhaust like that to begin with also. I was giving up about 20hp and a lot of smoothness. I went with an X-pipe and put the mufflers under the rear seats before the axle. It sits up higher in the critical areas and sounds a heck of a lot better. It only cost me $100 at the local exhaust shop. Just a suggestion. I think you would like it alot better.

JMatlock88

Lethal, do you have any pictures of your setup? I'm not sure how you fit them underneith the rear seats. I am also concerned with fumes. I've had exhaust rigged up in the past where it completely drove me out of the car when the windows were up. What mufflers & xpipe did you use? Why do you think your setup is 20HP better?

badgta

iTrader: (4)

tea in bowling green is ****ing awsome people!!!!!

they will do the best that money can buy....... i had a misunderstanding with their billing girl on a price qoute they gave me to my door, and they fixed it no problem....

awsome people, great price.... you just can't beat them......

LETHALRACER

If you run individual pipes there is no balance. You need to equalize pressure. The X-pipe creates vacuum also. This helps scavaging. I used Flowtech Afterberner mufflers. The exhaust shop fabbed up the X-pipe out of the dual 3" system I ended up running. I get no fumes in the car. I think it runs great. I don't have any pictures of sound bites. That sound bite that was posted with open headers. It sounds pretty much like that.

JMatlock88

Sounds like that's a neat exhaust setup you got there. Does it exit at the rear axle as in this picture or at the rear wheels like the blue camaro picture? Thanks!

LETHALRACER

It looks just about the same as that exhaust in the picture above. I have larger square mufflers a little further back that dump right at the axle. That system looks much cleaner than mine. Mine was fabbed at a local exhaust shop. I need a real Dr. Gas X-pipe to maximize the flow. The guy that did my exhaust did his friends Mustang and they said they picked up two tenths. That is about twenty hp. The Mustang guy is the one who talked me into that style.

JMatlock88

Sounds good. There's definetly some power left in exhaust for me, but for now the cost doesnt justify the change. I'm not changing exhaust until I can afford the oval Xpipe setup. It is good to hear that you dont get fumes with the dumps. That surprises me.
A new question...
Why do you all think my factory tach is off? Will the new MSD pro-billet distributor make the tach more precise or does that not have anything to do with it?

LETHALRACER

I am not sure. I believe that my tach is off also. The shift light comes on at 6,200 but the tach says 6,400-6,500. I just use the light. I wonder if it is right and the rpms are just rising too fast to notice the accuracy.

'91 Formula

iTrader: (1)

Looks good. Great numbers. Looks like a whole lot of torque down low. Drops off pretty quick though. Am I reading the chart right?

I guess I got to break down and get my car dyno tuned. If I don't, I'll never be driving this car. I have no time to gather O2 readings.

esams

One thing is eating away at me about JMat's combo. If you look at the dyno graph, the torque peak appears to actually be below 3000 rpm's. That blows my mind. Does that mean that a stall converter below 3000 would yield maximum ET?

Help me out here. I thought for sure it would peak torque would be around 4000 in that motor.

JMatlock88

The torque converter stalls until 3100 RPM. Anything below that on the graph is not accurate because of the torque converter slamming into the driveline and therefore multiplying torque. Am I correct on this?

edit: What I dont understand is why my torque reading plumits across the graph instead of remaining reasonably flat. Can someone comment on this?

85MikeTPI

iTrader: (2)

That TQ curve has me curious also..

The curve looks different (more slope) because
the scaling is different..

Matlock, what gear did you dyno in?

Did you have the TCC hard locked?

What did you do about the TV cable?

I'm curious that your curves start at ~2800rpms, but you have a 3100stall converter?

Finally, would you mind reposting the dyno curve with the SAE conversion factor?
(STD isn't used much to compare to others..)

FWIW, my 700r4 with 2800 stall won't dyno below 3400-3600,
or the trans will kick down to 2nd gear..

thanks
mike

JMatlock88

The TCC locked up at 95MPH. The dyno pulls were 1st through 3rd gear. The tv cable was hooked up normally. Yes, actually I ordered the stall converter to stall at 3500 rpms but Ed Wright said it was actually stalling to ~3100. I'm definetly no expert on commenting on these dyno curves as this is my first experience. I think I have the SAE graph. Let me find it and I'll post it very soon.

esams

Hell if that dyno graph is accurate then you lucked out by the 3100 stall instead of the 3500 The reason I'm so interested in this is because I want to order the absolute perfect converter for my setup from Yank.

JMatlock-You got me really fired up because I've got the 224/230 cam that Ed said would make max. power in that 355. Same intake, same heads.

Can't wait to see your track times !!!

85MikeTPI

iTrader: (2)

How do you mean 1st thru 3rd gear? You usually put the car into it's 1:1 gear
and stab the throttle. 700r4s are difficult because you have to leave the TV cable
on for line pressure, but you have to be going fast enough not to downshift..

I have my Mandatory TCC lock set for 120 mph
so it won't affect my tests on the dyno or the
track.. 8-)

The SAE numbers will be interesting, thanks..

For reference, my HSR dyno is here:
http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~davis/z28...age021105.html

I stabbed a personal best time at the track the following day with a 11.8 @ 114 (NA)

Can't wait to hear how fast you take that sucker down the track!!

thanks
mike

BadSS

LethalRacer pointed you towards the "X" pipe. That or a crossover might not give you much if any more peak HP with your particular cam profile. However, it will definitely help fill in the midrange and upper midrange - helping to flatten out the torque curve in that range.

Shouldn't cost that much for the simple crossover pipe. Spray some cheap paint (not high heat) paint on the pipes and see where your hot spots are in the pipes and connect them or get as close to connecting them that you can. That's usually worth around .12 seconds on a low 12 high 11 second automatic at the track over straight duals.

GTAracer

How come your dyno curves for HP/Torque do not cross at 5250 rpm?

85MikeTPI

iTrader: (2)

I assume you're talking to Matlock?

It's already been pointed out that the
HP and TQ scales are different, so they
still cross at 5250rpm, but that's not
the same xover point on the dissimilar
scales..

mike

JMatlock88

I wanted to add an update...
I have now gotten the Stealth Ram to fit under the formula hood (with some braces neatly removed). All 6 faces of the stealth ram plenum were milled, the most materal being taken from the top and bottom for clearance increases. Enough material was left so that the box was structurely sound for torqing down to the lower. The machine work included milling off all of the ugly (in my opinion) fins. The runners on the base were also milled just 1/16" for more clearance. This change in length should hardly be noticible to the chip and to you. The end result is a fully polished plenum with a shorter and wider look. Thus eliminating the kleenex box syndrome and fitting it all under the hood.

Brad

Damn you make me jealous every time I see your engine because yours is actually RUNNING . Mine still looks like this:

except the lower intake is on now. I had a bit of a fight with the dipstick this past weekend as I learned that the Callies splayed caps and the stock dipstick don't get along as seen here:

My oil pan was already on the engine and the engine was already in the car when I learned this, so Nick @ Nu-tek sent me this picture to illustrate what my problem was. I've got a work around though (again, thanks to Nick @ Nu-tek) and I'm back on track. Hopefully I'll be able to fire my beast up before Christmas. A man can hope anyway

badgta

iTrader: (4)

can i have your valve covers????? please....

i tried to get some of the proform/gm ones but my dealer couldn't get them yet so i had to go with stock new ones.....

how much clearence do ya have on your 396??? rod to block wise?? i bet you had to grind like hell for 396 cubes........

JMatlock88

Ya, cool valve covers!
You can see a ton of block clearancing in that bottom end that he posted.

'87FAKE-IROC-Z

Brad,
Which valve covers are those? Those are the tallese centerbolts I've seen! where did you get them?
thanx

Brad

The valve covers are cheapy polished aluminum that I got off of ebay. They look good though, and are well worth the price (around $90). Search on ebay for "centerbolt valvecovers."

Here's an updated picture that I got off of my camera tonight. Slow progress for sure.

John Millican

iTrader: (1)

You will have alternator clearance issues with valvecovers that tall if running a single serpentine belt.

badgta

iTrader: (4)

very nice!!!!

heres my pos long block.......

the balancer hit the oil cooler lines so a little tweaking will be nessesary........

it's a 383 with afr 190's comp 282hr cam witha 112* lsa and small base circle....

LETHALRACER

JMatlock. Were you the one saying you dynoed with the stock distributor but had a MSD pro billet ready to go in? If so, have done the swap? Do you notice any difference?

Shagwell

The stock tachs just don't seem to know what to do w/ themselves sometimes. With my new 355 in, when I kick it, my tach will wiz up to like 2800, then fall back to 0. All while the motor is still winding up. I ordered a new 5" Sport-Comp Silver to eliminate this problem... - I'm soon to order in my new Stealthram. I just can't decide whether to wait and get my Ram-Air hood first, or mill the intake. - I have to do something. This 11mpg carb thing is killing me! I'm getting 19 highway, which ain't bad, but 9-11 in town sucks!

JMatlock88

Yes, I did swap distributors back in the first of November. I really can't tell a difference, but I'm psudo certain there is a small difference at high rpm. The butt dyno isnt accurate enuf to know...

I got a new digital camera for christmas, so it's really nice to have one that actually produces good pictures more than once every 100 shots.

Yes, the tach has no idea what's going on above 4500rpm so it seems.

I'd like to give a quick update on the car. I recently received a shiftlight and tokico struts. I've also been hard at work on some white face guages. They turned out very nice.

The passenger side strut went in today. It takes no time to swap them out as long as you have an impact gun. Otherwise, it will leave you scratching your head.

JMatlock88

Here is a better look at the clearanced HSR. Sorry for the poor picture earlier...this one much better describes the new no-so-kleenex look.

JMatlock88

And lastly here are the new white guages. Notice the 180mph speedo, the new redline, the Formula writing in Firehawk font, and various other tweaks. I started with a few of the freely distributed templates on the internet and modified them to my taste. If you like the templates, just email me and I can send you the real files (much higher resolution). I used red 194 bulbs and made the guage backs out of clear plexiglass. The stock guage faces showed through at night so I had to fab the plexiglass. They really look sharp at night now.

JMatlock88

tach and speedo..

Shagwell

I say again, you have one hell of a beautiful car and engine. Nice job on the gauges. I did the plexi glass thing w/ mine too. Well, actually I use lexan, but thats what I had...same difference. I also modified mine. I erased the kilometers on the speedo and put in the GTA side logo. I also did some "editing". My tach now says "Give-a-Sh** Meter" rather than RPM x 1000 - What did you think of the Tokicos? I'm running the KYB's right now because they were free. The struts are deffinitely easy w/ an impact. I had to use a 3/4 drive, man those things held on for life. - anyhow, good luck

later, justin...

JMatlock88

Glad you found the guage templates to be of good use! Thanks for the compliments! I have put about 5 miles on the tokico struts, so I dont really have a good feel of how well they work. I trust the opinions of many board members in that they're basicly the best strut for our application. I hope you have great luck with your KYB's!