I thought I had another intake manifold leak but it turns out it is the passenger side head gasket
I've never personally removed the heads (intake manifold is as far as I've gone) so I'm wondering what all is involved. Any potential trouble spots? Any recommendations while I'm doing it?
Now for a dumber question: Should I replace both head gaskets or just the blown one? Thanks.

 

there are several factors, i recently took my heads off to have them rebuilt (91 rs 305) it is alot of work, more than you would expect. just make sure you read alot before doing this and talk to people, plan every step and make sure you have the proper tools and enviroment to do this. and plan for time. certain things will give you trouble that you didn't expect and will have the car sitting for a while. if you have a haynes or chilton book, that will tell you everything you need to know, just look at each step, for removing the heads it will give you major steps with sub steps, for instance removing intake manifold and then exhaust manifolds, each step will have numerous things you will have to do. ORGANIZATION is the key. to remove the heads and replace the gaskets, and all other gaskets that will need to be replaced due to taking everything apart will come out to ruffly 200 to 400. also when your taking off the heads its a good idea to take them down to your local machine shop and have them checked out, most likely they will need resurfacing and i would get the basic valve job for 200 bucks, its worth it trust me.

 

you will definetly need to replace both, just loosening the head and prying it apart will tear the gasket up, several gaskets will need to be placed.

 

Luckily I have another vehicle as my daily driver so I can afford the down time. I do have a Haynes manual so I guess I'll be reading that section very closely. The heads have very few miles on them (less than 2k miles) so I don't think they'll need a valve job. I guess I'll take them both off though if necessary.

 

What engine are you doing this on?

Here's my experience with wanting to remove the heads on my '89 IROC (L98 engine)... The driver's side head was pretty straightforward to get off. By that, I mean that once you get everything out of the way of all the head bolts and the valve covers off, it's just a matter of taking out the head bolts and yanking the heads. That means that the TPI (in my case), intake manifold, distributor, all of the accessories, the radiator (so you have room to get the accessories out), the exhaust manifold(s), and the emissions equipment all have to come off. So, for the driver's side, all of that is certainly time-consuming, but it can be done.

The passenger's side head, however, was a completely different story. As I said, the exhaust manifolds had to come off, and the reason for that is that eight (I think) of the head bolts are under the manifold. Well, since I have air-conditioning, all of the A/C equipment got in the way, making it nearly (and I use that lightly) impossible to get to the exhaust manifold bolts. From what I've heard, you don't want to be removing A/C equipment. And to add to the problems, four of the exhaust manifold bolts have metal "clips" that are bent over the nuts to keep them from unscrewing themselves; you need to get a good angle on those to bend them back to get the nuts off as well. So, if the A/C has to stay, you can't get the exhaust manifold off, and if you can't get the exhaust manifold off, you can't get the head off because you can't get to 8 of the head bolts.

So, I decided to just yank the whole engine. I couldn't--and still can't--think of any other way to do it.

I'm not trying to discourage you or anything--in fact, *most* people that I have seen take their heads off with the engine still in the car. It's done all of the time. Depending on your setup, taking one head off might be just as easy/hard as the other. I'm just throwing that out there if you've got the same setup as mine...

Good luck, either way!

 

the drivers side is cake, passenger side takes about 6 hours longer for me! you will have to take the air system off, ac/air compressor mount bolts off, the air injection tubes which are a B*tch, and hardest of all, the exhaust manifold, its the longests, most repetative deal but its must be done. also be careful for the ground connections at the rear of each head, don't cut it unless your sure you can reconnect it because it will screw your electrical up. trust me i have learned the hard way. and if you replace one head gasket replace both due to even engine wear. if you have any questions while doing it put it up here.

 

Yes it is on an 89 Iroc. It is now a 4-bolt main 383 stroker but was originally the L98. Unfortunately it is the passenger side head gasket that blew but I was considering doing the AC delete anyways to clear up some room and weight. I guess now would be a good time to do that right? I have to keep the AIR stuff though because of smog here in CA.
So far I have the manifold and above removed along with the alternator and drivers side valve cover. I have Edelbrock TES
headers so this *should* help in the removal right??? Or no?
I don't see any of the clips you are referring to that bend over the nut, maybe those were replaced when the headers were installed.
I obviously paid someone to do it the first time and am now trying to save $$ and learn something by doing it myself (It's easier when you have a 2nd vehicle too ).

Excellent info so far guys, keep it up!

P.S. Does the radiator really have to come out?

 

One question for you. What do you think caused the blown head gasket? If you are going to pull both heads then get them checked to make sure the surfaces are flat. That could be a cause for a blown head gasket. Just my .02

 

just recently pulled the heads off of my 91 rs. Yes, I realize that mine is a tbi motor, but the basics are the same. The drivers side head came off with no problem, as stated earlier. The passenger side is difficult, but also very doable, even with the motor in the car and the a/c still hooked up. I found that the passenger side exhaust manifold is easier to remove from the underside of the car. That way worked easiest for me, of course i also cut my stock exhaust off the car, because I was installing headers, y-pipe, and hooker cat-back exhaust. Just my $.02.:rockon: :rockon:

 

I'm really not sure. I'm going to have them checked once I remove them because I had some intake problems before. That head gasket had less than 2k miles on it (new motor).

 

You might want to take the intake along with you and have them make sure that everything fits together well. You said you had some intake problems before. Did you have the heads shaved? If so how much? This could be the cause of your problem. Just my.02

 

DannyT,, what a bummer!

I have a few tips,, I take you thru the whole thing but I'm sure that I would forget about something. I have taken the heads off my '87 about 3 times. It is alot of hard work, but doable by one person.

Get a good book (or 2) on this and read alot,, get mentally ready.

You pretty much have to take everythin off the motor,, exhaust manifold,, all of the accessories the bolt to the front of the heads,, intake of course,, drain the coolant out,, I dont think its necessary to drain the oil but you might get some coolant in the oil so change the oil also AFTER the job is completed.

Get ARP heads bolts and a good head gaskets. I use Felpro and never had a problem with them. Be sure to use the proper torque sequence on the heads,, you have to go thru the sequence about 3 or 4 times with increasing torque,, Your book that you buy will have this in it.

I use black silicone sealant on the head bolts, otherwise oil will come up some of the head bolts.

Take good pictures as you go, this was very helpful to me when I reassembled everything, especually the accessoryies, belts, fuel lines, vacuum lines,,,, you can not take enough pictures!!!!

Be sure to have the right tools.

About the distributor,,,, crank the engine around by hand by the crankbolt (get the right tool for this). Turn the crank around until you have the #1 cylinder in the firing TDC position,,, If I remember correctly, the rotor should be pointing toward the #5 cylinder. Mark the location of the rotor on the intake manifold. As you pull up on the distributor,,, notice how the rotor turns, mark the rotor position again on the manifold when the distributor comes free. When you reassemble,, drop the distributor in with the rotor tip in the second position,, as the distributor gear engage the cam gear,, the rotor should turn to the first mark as it seats completely,,, make sur the distributor collar sitd down completely on to the intake manifold.

Do not move the crank after you remove the distributor,, it is critical that it stays in the same position until you get the distribitor back in.

Well thats all I got right now. Good luck.

 

I will really agree with the PITA factor on the passenger side head. The A/C box is in the was. Getting the head off is not really the hard part though. You are not going to get an good retorque on the back short head bolts later on. I pulled my heads and while they were at the shop, unbolted the motor and trans mounts and popped the motor forward a bit. This saved me a big fight later.

 

I have the TPSI StageI AFR190 heads. According to TPIS they milled the heads down to 54cc chambers. I'm going to take the intake with the heads to a machine shop to have everything checked out to make sure it bolts up correctly.

 

afr heads are a pitty......

the most messed up thing besides cheap valve train and rocker studs is the way they are machined....

i had to use a grinded down 5/8 socket to use my stock head bolts on the ta... now it's byting me on the ***!!!!! because i have a head gasket that didn't seal.......

i hope ya can get the old ones off and not have any troubles........

good luck and i hope it works out for ya

badgta

 

Yup, that $35 you saved not buying a set of ARP head bolts really paid off big, didn't it? Reusing head bolts is generally bad practice anyway, the stockers don't even have washers (which the AFR instructions call for), geez that's a bad place to skimp.

I do agree their valvetrain hardware blows. Cheap, heavy valves, inaccurate spring rate numbers, and studs that appear to be prone to breakage. I bought mine bare but w/ the CNC machining, and had a local shop assemble them with Manley valves and CompCams springs & retainers.

 

I JUST replaced the passenger side head gasket on my GTA. It was the first head gasket I'd ever replaced on ANY car. I did it without taking the engine out, and without disconnecting the AC. The passenger side is a PITA, but you can do it. When you take the head off, loosen the bolts in the opposite sequence that you would tighten them in. When you get the head off, use a razor blade and scrape ALL of the old gasket off. Don't leave a bit on there! Then check it with a metal straightedge. If you have cast iron heads and you were careful taking it off, you probably won't have any warpage. I didn't. If you can see any light under the straightedge, you might want to take it to a machine shop. I only did the one passenger side gasket. After I got it back together, I kind of wished that I had done the drivers side. It would have been an extra couple hours of work. Now I'm paranoid that the drivers side might go. When my head gasket went bad, it was leaking out the back side of the head. Just antifreeze. It took a while to figure out exactly where it was coming from. It looked like it was leaking right off of one of the starter bolts. Kind of confusing. I finally found the leak with a mirror. I agree that the exhaust manifold is about the biggest PITA. It can take some time. Anyways, I have the 350 TPI motor. I don't know what you have, but the torque value on mine was 65 ft pounds. I torqued them down in 4 steps in sequence! Make sure you do the sequence right! I also used new head bolts. First, I torqued them all to 20 pounds, then 40, then 60, then finally 65ft pounds. Before you take everything apart, mark the relation of your distributor to the intake, and the rotor to the distributor. When you put everything back together, install the intake, then the distributor. Do that BEFORE you install the rockers! When you install the rockers, you will have to do valve lashing, and it will involve rotating the engine to the #1 TDC position! So, if you have your distributor in the right spot, it will be a LOT easier to start when you get done, and when I did mine, I didn't even have to adjust the timing! Anyways, just be careful taking the head off. Make sure yuo scrape every last bit of gasket off of the head and off the block. VERY VERY VERY important. It should just about look like new! When you're scraping the block, put some paper towels down in the pistons to keep most of the junk from getting down in there. When you're done, pull them out and use a shop vac to vacum anything that might have fallen in there. Then I used some high pressure air to blast down in there and get anything that might be left! I'd recommend that you go ahead and do both head gaskets. I wish I had. I'm paranoid now. If you have both heads off, you could go ahead and have them machined. Might cost you $50 to $75 for both at a good machine shop. You would get a little bit better performance out of your engine due to higher compression. Also, if you have to machine one head, you definately need to have the other one machined. If you only do one, your intake won't line up right and you'll be in a world of hurt. But with cast iron heads, you probably won't have any warpage. I wouldn't worry about it. If you have aluminum heads, I just about guarantee they'll be warped a bit. I think only Vette's had the aluminum heads, unless your car had them added later. I could be wrong. Also, when you put your intake on, make sure you use new gaskets, and on the back side of the engine use LOTS of sealant. I used a 1/2" bead of sealant. That area is notorious for leaks! This job is not impossible to do. I did it without removing the AC compressor. You do have to take the bolts out of it and move it over a bit, but DON'T disconnect the lines on the back of the compressor! The big bracket that holds the compressor and the smog pump has two big bolts that bolt into the head itself. Remove these BEFORE you remove the head bolts. This is about all I can think of for doing the head gasket. I didn't think it was that hard, just time consuming. The valve lashing is a piece of cake also. I guarantee you, that after you do this job, you'll understand your car a whole lot better! OH! I almost forgot. The wire harness that goes from the coil to the distributor will ALSO plug into the air temp sensor which is under that big intake box on top of the engine. Then the harness that's supposed to go to the air temp sensor will fit into the distributor! I thought all connectors on these cars were different so they would only plug into one spot, but apparently not. Your car will not start no matter what you do if you get thewe wires backwards. I paid $146 for a dealer to figure out I had two wiring harnesses backwards! Sucked! Anyways, after I did my head gasket, the car fired up and it runs great now. I haven't had any more problems with it. Also, before you disconnect the fuel lines on top of the engine, remove the gas cap! I learned that lesson the hard way. If I can think of anything else, I'll let you know! Good luck! Matt

 

i know it

well, i ran out of mucho deniro, and was in somebody elses shop, that needed space..... so you can see the rush......

but when ya broke, your broke...... ya know what i'm saying............

i'm going to try and get some arp's so this dosen't happen again.... now if i can just get the heads off!! lol

 

**** i just took off my heads off my 83, its a carbed 355, if you want help or any tips or what ever PM me. and i didnt need the Haynes, i just put all the bolts into bags and labled them, took pictures noting how everything was before and after i took it out, good luck.

 

Good point. Buy a few boxes of ziplocs and a sharpie. With all the bolts you'll be taking out, you don't want to just pile them up! You'll never get everything back where it goes! Matt

 

Please make sure of this: If you use ARP head bolts or any other aftermarket bolt, torque the new bolts to the manufacturers specsep up from the factory , not the haynes or chilton torque spec. The arp head bolts torqued to, if I remember correctly, 85 ft lbs. That is quite a stepill the intake up from the factory torque spec. Hope this helps. Also the heads and intake will bolt together after milling, unless, you angle mill the heads, then you have to angle mill the intake also.:rockon: :rockon:

 

There are 2 bolts attaching the alternator bracket to the driver's side head. One of them is behind the power steering fluid reservoir. I have an angled neck wrench and still can't get to it. How did you remove this? Do I have to remove the power steering pump first?
Thanks.:hail:

 

If you can, take the power steering pump off, but don't disconnect the lines. Just move it aside, and if you have to, secure it with some rope to keep it from falling down. Matt

 

all you have to do is get a long exstension and put it straight in toward the bolt, not from the side. although i did it on a 91 i didn't have to remove the ps pump.

 

There isn't enough room to actually get a socket in there because of the fluid reservoir. The other bolt is no problem but I can't see any other bolts to remove the power steering pump either.

 

anyone else?