Alright i have been throwing ideas around forever on deciding what to do with my money. I want your guy’s opinions this time. What should I do? The conditions are keep fuel injection (no carb), max HP per $, and make it less than hmmmmmm, $5000. This engine is going to be built ok so throw some ideas around with me and some prices.

Alright let the ideas flow,

Shane

Here is what I have been thinking about,

-LT1 Swap
-LS1 Swap
-Vortec TPI
-Converted LT1
-Super Ram


I have no problems about the LT1/LS1 swaps except the modding needed to the car when putting in a LT1/LS1. If you want to tell me differently please do so.

My wish is to get an LS1 in there, but I don’t see me doing it myself. I live in Jax, Florida, if any of you guys would like to help put in an LS1 just to say you did an LS1 swap then welcome yourself as soon as I get the money. But remember max money spent is $5000. I can get an entire LS1 setup for $2500; so consider this.

The minimum HP rating I want out of these engines installed is 320HP. This would mean I’d have to mod an LT1 before installing it.

 

Alright well I have been calling every junk yard I possibly can today and found that engines are very cheap. I can’t believe how cheap they are. I am going to get a 1988 IROC-Z 350 engine for $138. I get it bored, and rebuilt and I’ve got me something so cheap it’s not even funny. Well all of their engines for that year are $138, but I love the price. The thing is I have to pull it, with no help from them. This is for the complete block though, and all I need is the short block so say hello to selling the junk heads for maybe $25 or less.


$138 for an L98
$96 to bore it out .03 over ($12 per hole)
$286.95 for the rebuild kit from summit

Meaning I get a complete engine for this job for $521. Oh shiznats.

Oh yeah and I’ve decided to go with the Vortec TPI setup, because it has a better HP: Price ratio. I'm going to do the complete setup for maybe $2300. Which will take me a while but not too long.

$2300 includes all the following
-L98 long block
-SDPC Vortec TPI kit
-LT4 Hot Cam
-SLP Intake Runners
-TPiS TPI Throttle Body Air Foil
-350 Rebuild kit
-Bore out the 350

I don’t know what else I’ll need besides all this though. One quick question, will my current 305 Distributor work with this engine? I know all my current belt driven accessories will so that’s covered. Since I’m keeping the TPI setup it’s pretty much just bolting the engine into place and before that bolting everything onto it.

One more question, if I’m removing all emissions stuff, what will have to be done besides just taking it off? I mean it can’t be just as easy as removing all pipes and stuff. Does the computer have to be modded; if so can I do it myself?


thanks in advance,
shane

 

Your dizzy will work.

Add in the cost of exhaust and gaskets, coolant...yadda, yadda, yadda.. new belts, hoses waterpump, etc.

There's more to machine work that just boring the holes...best talk to a shop so you're aligned with prices. Your kit will probably need balancing too...

What about heads? and valve train components (rockers, etc...additional cost for HP things would be needed too...

Just giving you more ($$) to think about.

When you pull the engine, would be the best time for tranny work if needed. At the minimum, it's be time for a decent stall converter and the easiest time to install.

NOw you have all that power (heck, even stock was too mch) and need suspension work/upgrades to hold the car together


Funny how 2500 turns into 6K-7K real quick...isn't it?

 

uh huh. One of the reasons I really dont wanna put a super performing engine in my car. Dont forget sub frame connectors. youll like those! I still havent got em yet. I hate the vibrations!..

Nate

 

Yeah, uh, the Vortec TPI kit includes all valve train (heads, roller rockers, valve springs, and everything else). That why you cant beat the price. It comes with unassembled heads, but has all the parts to put them together, and it comes with the Vortec TPI manifold.

I think a stall converter will have to wait until after I realize I really need it. I know that it will but my fuel economy so much it’s not funny. This is going to be a daily driver guys and it is my only car. Fuel consumption is not really an issue, but the tank is pretty small and for it to get like half what it does now that’s not cool. Currently with my pedal heavy self I get 16 MPG on highway and 14 MPG in city.

I don’t even know what sub frame connectors are, please inform me. What do they do? How do you put them on? Do I really need them?

As for gaskets, the kit comes with all them. I don’t think I’ll need to worry about coolant because it’s not that much money. I was told my water pump would fit onto the engine, if not I’ll just go ahead and buy an electric one. A lot of my belts are new so I don’t need to replace them, but if the lengths are different then I’ll have to wont I?

Since I knew a fella who used to work in an auto parts store I have a lot of synthetic engine oil, and tranny fluid. About 7 cases still left, which holds, I think, 18, 1 quart bottles so I’m completely covered. Well 5 cases of engine oil and 2 case of tranny. I got a couple bottles left of synthetic rear end fluid. I got these things for a bargain so that why I have so much.

I'm going to be getting new eibach springs so that’s covered also. I think I’ve pretty much had time to think all this stuff over.

Also what other machining would have to be done? Also what would have to be balanced in the engine? I’m not getting the whole crank rod brand new. That way too much money for now. I'll wait until its going to need to be done.



thanks,
shane

 

what heads are you gonna put on it?????? and if you have 5 grand i have a really good idea for you that i saw on e-bay.. 27k miles.. its like a lil over 4 grand i think.. ls1 with a t-56 on the back of it with 27 k miles complete with wiring and computer.. good deal... would make a really easy really cool swap too.. make close to 317 hp at the wheels and get mileage in the low 20's there ya go quick 13 sec car.. maybe 12s with some weight reduction with potential to go much much faster

 

Sub Frame connectors are essential to these weak cars if you give them any *****.. if you dont they will start to twist and form stress cracks, hell sometimes you can even break the welds on the floor pan since these are unibody cars with no frame, sfcs are basically weld in frame rails that connect the front and rear subframes adding rigidity to the car and eliminating body flex.

 

Off the top of my head, the block may need to be resurfaced, mains align bored...does your kit come with new rods?..if not, may need to be resizeds, plus assembly cost.

Crank will mos likely need to be turned..cam bearings installed...also cost of what you have the shop do? Assum you'll put it altogether yourself?

Rings have to be checked/filed for gap...there's probably a dozen other things too, but you get the idea. Also, some shop charge for the hot ank, crack inspection and so on.

Tell me about this "Vortec TPI" kit you mentioned....where are you getting it and how much?

 

Its a kits made by scoggin-dickey. Goto http://www.sdpc2000.com/cart.asp?act...2175&pid=89538 to see the kit specs. It’s actually a very good deal and you really can’t beat it.

The thing is I don’t want to bring this engine back to original performance. I pretty much and only going to need the calendars bored to make them smooth again. I have a step-dad who was a certified master mechanic in 1987. The only problem is he is never here. He’s in the navy and will be leaving in February for 8 months. Next time he'll be here is Feb. 9th and leave for 8 months 9 days later. He would be able to help me but as you see he can’t. I have a friend up the street who has done quite a few engine rebuild on his 98 Trans am (he seems to always detonate the first cylinder). SO I think he’ll be able to help me quite a bit. I don’t have any friends that are into mechanics as much as I am, so it’s really hard to find somebody who can help me.

I mean my rebuild is not going to be a pro rebuild. I’m going to do it myself after boring out the cylinders. I mean the kit comes with the bearings and pistons, but no connection rods or crank. What is turning the Crank? Why would the rods need to be resized?

I just want the engine to work correctly and build a proper compression ratio. The bearing as far as I know come right out so why would they need to be bored also? What is resurfacing the block?

What did you mean by saying “Rings have to be checked/filed for gap”?

As you might be able to tell I am a novice that knows a bunch of broadened stuff. Treat me like a noob please.

Thanks in advance,
Shane

 

you might wanna buy a few books and really think about it before you start.. what kind of tools do you have to work with? might be worth it to have the shop assemble it for you and just drop it in yourself..

 

well i have tools, oh boy do i have tools. Fregging big ole red tool boxes fill in the tool shed. Like the one that the little kid slid downt he stairs in home alone, we have 2 of those. I just dont have any stands, or any sorta thing like this.


Well i've thought this over and my only conclusion is that my current 305 sucks and the only way to get anywhere is go get a 350; which has so many mods availible thats its not even funny.


shane

 

Not an issue, everyone starts somewhere....that's the great thing about this site, not only is there an expert that will help you out on your EFI issues, but there's also experts who can give you step by step on your LB rebuild/assembly.

As mentioned, you should get David Vizards book "how to rebuild small block chevy's" or similar...

But to answer a few of your questions, as the engine spins, the bearings and crank both wear to some degree...so usually what occurs, is the crank has wear and just replacing with standard bearings will not be enough to kake up for clearnce specs, so the crank is "turned" (ground off some amount of the journal) so you can use different bearings, also grooves, etc in the crank, require it to be turned (if possible).

As the engine spins, the rods/pistons go up and down...the upward/downward forces can/does cause the "big end (on the cranks, to get a little bit "oval-ish",m when this happends, the caps or rod are machines, then rebored/honed to make them round again...matching to the crank.

There's soo many things that need to be done, this is why I mentioned talking to a shop and get a firmer price for what they suggest...I'm, by no means an epert and leave 99% up to my shop to do the right thing, but ofcourse the more is done, the more it costs.

Get the book mentioned, it'll give you so much insight on what's needed/can be done..depending on what you can do vs what you need to pay for.

Another alternative is a crate engine...just pick it up, bolt a few things on, and get on down the road.

There's trade offs, no mater what you do...i/e you can build a $10,000 SBC with 300hp and you can build a $500 SBC with 300hp, attention to detail and quality of prts is what separates them...most find a happy medium in between.

 

alright then screw rebuilding an engien, i'll fn buy me a crate engine. I mean a complete rebuild kit with the crank and rods is $880. I can almost buy a new engine for that much.

My question is whe you get your engines remachined, how much did it cost you?

Please tell me less than $500. Because thats a good price for the difference, you got $287 for the regular kit, and $880 for everything. That leaves you with a difference of $593. So to make it worth while it should be about $500, right?

Well if its less than please inform me of it being so. I mean i live in a big city so whatever the cheapest prices you've seen i will see.


thnaks guys,
shane

 

well you not the only person that has been searching e-bay for stuff like this. I search ebay all day trying to see things i could use now or maybe later. I have looked at the LS1s but they are a killer to install. The it was the LT1s, also a killer.Then the vortec TPi which uses the same computer just needs to be put in place of the old engine and wala an engine with performance through the roof.

 

theres nothing really harder about putting an ls1 engine into an f-body really.. need some special parts.. the main difference is you need to replace your wiring harness and the computer and you would end up with a vastly superior engine. If i had the money i'd buy that and put it in my maro.. i'd trade my 350 hp 350 any day for an ls1 which is rated at 330 but actually puts out more to the tune of 370 on a dyno and gets more then double the gas mileage..

 

well the LS1 will be later mod. When i do it i'm gonna buy a brand spanking new one too. That way it comes with the full factory warentee, and i know it will work like its supposed to. That way i dont need a new harness, or a new anything. Its all new. I'll prolly end up getting a Brand New LS6 though, they are only $1000 more than the new LS1 and you geta bunch more power.

 

Never mind the whole switch up. I found a company that makes a kit that’s just for me. All I need is for the stuff to be bored out. Guess how much it is too. You won’t believe it.

MASTER REBUILD KIT
Kit includes: Pistons, Pins, Rings & Lifters, Rod, Main Cam & Cam Bearings, Freeze Plug Set, Gaskets, Cam, Timing Set, Meling Oil Pump & Precision Ground Crank. (Pistons available in standard 30, 40, 60)


And the price is-
350c.i. $310.00


Can you believe it? I bet not. But here is the link. I don’t care these people have got what I need exactly how I need it.
http://www.larrysperformance.com/data/enginekits.html



They also have kits that are made just for you. They give you the reconditioned block, and the kit. All you do it put it together.

http://www.larrysperformance.com/data/assemkits.html

350 2 Bolt $745
350 4 Bolt $845
383 2 Bolt $995
383 4 Bolt $1200

 

They also have a monthly special going right now for an already rebuilt short block, bored .030 over, for the unbelievable price or $349. Can you believe that?

http://www.larrysperformance.com/data/monthly.html


Check it out that is my engine right there, all I need is to come up with some money very quickly and I’ll be set.

Tell me if there is anything wrong about what these people are selling guys, but right now for the price I cant really go wrong. If it’s bad then I guess its o-well.


Man with this kit i'll be pumping horsepower out my a**. hehe.

 

.

 

where did all the feedback go?

 

You may want to contact the machine shop who will be doing your engine build and get prices from them. As mentioned before there are areas of every block that must be checked and fixed if required, so you cannot get an accurate price on the machine work until you give them the block. Tell them what you want the motor to do and get a realistic price on the bottom end. I think you'll find that it will cost you more like $1000+ to get one rebuilt. A stock replacement short block that cheap like you listed is likely something that's been rebuilt as inexpensively as possible and in the long run may not hold up to the performance you want and the way you drive (heavy foot). I've been thru all this, right where you're at, and you will be happier in the long run - and it will cost you less - to do it the way you want the first time and do it right. The best place to start, as suggested, is by further research and educate yourself on what other people have done that works, then set your goals based on that & what you're realistically capable of and willing to do yourself, price it out and save your money. This also gives more time to find better deals and maybe some used parts.

Here are some other things to consider. Vortec heads are a very limited application. They won't support a bigger ci motor if you move up in the future, and you must use a Vortec intake. For ~$1300 for heads and a base intake, I think I'd choose aluminum Pro Topline heads and an Edelbrock base. ~$900 for heads and ~$300 for an intake. If iron heads are acceptable, buy the iron version for ~$700. What induction do you plan to use on top? The stock TPI runners and plenum will negate everything you're planning to do so they're not an option for your build. Good runners are expensive but I would take my time and find a used Super Ram instead - that's what I did. If you don't have to pass emissions, then a LT1 intake conversion would work too or a Holley Stealth Ram (factor in specific ancillary costs like fuel rails & lines, etc). For your bottom end, if you research you will find that for slightly more money you can build a 383 ci block, which makes more sense hp/dollar. A 400 motor is another good performance choice and can be found already rebuilt if you search the local ads. If you find a good core it's comparable to rebuilding anything else for a street application. If you plan & shop well you may be able to exceed the performance goal you mentioned for the same expenditure, or reach your goal less expensively. One thing for sure, the better it performs now the longer you'll be satisfied with it and the less likely to tear back into it and throw more money & time at it later.

Don't overlook things like oil pump, timing set, gaskets, filters, EGR, O2, new water pump, belts, hoses, etc. It adds up quicker than you think but replacing them just makes sense if you're putting in a new performance engine. You'll want to run headers and a good cat-back exhaust. You must replace the torque convertor to match the cam and expected performance. You'll either have to pay someone to tune the setup or buy the stuff & learn how to burn your own chips. Is your fuel pump original and will it hold up to the increased demand? You'll most likely need to buy bigger injectors, especially if you have a 305 now. Does your posi unit work well? Suspension improvements are part of the system as a whole, power is nothing if you can't use it and you just blow the tires off - in that case the extra power will work against you.

Anyway, I'm not trying to discourage you here I'm just passing along what I and many others here have experienced. It is entirely possible to do this a little at a time, but think it thru first and do the "hard to replace stuff" like heads, cam, torque convertor, etc. the way you ultimately want and replace the "easy stuff" like induction later. Just don't skimp now on what the motor MUST have, like adequate fuel delivery, cooling, etc and the "sensible" stuff I mentioned earlier. Make that your bottom line for doing it at all. It won't perform optimally until it's all matched & properly tuned, but it will outperform what you have now and will work until you get everything you want. Sorry for such a long post...

 

those prices look pretty good but the picture is deceving, the block they show has pistons in it which means it would have an entire rotating assembly (crank, rods, pistons) but what they say they're selling there equates to a bare block, you would still need a rotating assembly cam and heads, not a bad price though for a fully machine block in my opinion probably cheaper and easier then buying a block and having someone do the machining, but you still need to get a rotating assembly, cam, lifters, pushrods, and heads, the heads they show there are 76 cc's thats gonna equate to some really low compression unless your running some domed pistons or something, above the block they are selling a rotating assembly for $695 plus $90 to balance it, if you wanted to put that 383 stroker kit in that 350 block you would have to spend more money having it machined for clearance to allow for the larger stroke... then you would need a timing set, oil pump with pickup and a oil pan, and some valve covers and a timing cover and water pump, complete gasket set, and intake. just things to think about..

 

Alright well the fuel pump is not original. About 5 months ago it went out so we got a new one put back in.

The radiator is brand new (6 months old); it started to over head so we got a much larger radiator, twice as thick. Now it runs very cool.

The thing is I have looked into the specter of getting larger engine setups. The only thing is, I'm only 16 guys, and you have to start somewhere. I'm going to start with a 350, I plan on keeping this car my whole life, even when I join the air force its going to go it a storage shed. I'm going to be like one of those people now who drive 64 1/2 Mustangs. I'm going to have an old car performing better than new in 2020.

See I’m on a very limited budget. I make $7 an hour and I work on an average week 30 hours. Half my paychecks go to insurance cause insurance is that much for full coverage. I want a new engine because eventually to rebuild my 305 like I’d have to do a 350 would cost the same amount. So I might as well do it now before I really need to.

Looking up stuff http://www.larrysperformance.com/ they are not a bad company. Many pro racers use their engines. They might just have so much business from pros that they can charge such low prices, you never know.

I am however still looking at the possibility of an LT1
****goes to call all local junk yard to see their process****

Ace Pick Your Part - has none
Well no one of them have those engines. Why the hell not?

I don’t know but I can get a good LT1 engine with 40k miles on it for $1700. Is this a good price? Let me go check eBay to see what they got for prices now.

Not as good of prices as those are.

Now to check on some LS1s
Not very promising.

Well guys I’ll leave it up to you guys. But try to put yourself in my shoes. What engine would you go with? The LT1, LS1, or Vortec TPI? It’s going to have to be one of them because well, they are readily available.

For these engines check out a good shop here in Florida, http://www.tacreationsusa.comengines...nsmissions.htm
They have pretty good prices and if I ask them what’s up with an engine they’ll tell me. Help me out guys.


Thanks,
Shane

 

.

 

Well between those 3 engines, stock, theTL4 is best, and then it’s the LT1, then the 1st generation small block Chevy. However the LS1 and LS1 are even better. The LS1 doesn’t have as much horsepower as the LT4 but the LS1 it keeps its horsepower/torque throughout the RPM range. Then there is the LS6, came in a small amount of f-bodies but came readily In Corvette Z06’s. It puts out close to 500HP or more, I’m not sure. Something likes that. The LS1 & LS6 are 3rd generation small block Chevy’s, and the LT1 & LT4, & LT5 are 2nd generation small block Chevy’s

To answer your question before, yeah any Chevy engine you can think of will fit in out cars. Don’t car what it is, how big it is it will fit. From what I know now you’ll need sub frame connectors though. However my build is also going to be complete in a year. But this is just to put in my head how much is going to have to be left for the engine. I'm going to get an eiback suspension.

For automatic trannys I’m pretty sure that the 4L60E HD is the best one. However it will not work with the current computer and will need a controller for it.

 

.

 

you would only need an independent controller for one to work wit a 1st generation small block chevy. the other 2 will be able to use it just perfectly, its made fore them but will bolt up perfectly.

 

.

 

except for engine moounts/tranny crossmemner the LS1 and LT1 swaps are exactly the same. u can get both of those already made at http://www.thirdgenresource.com

shane

 

.

 

get the radiator from the donor car.....

well a good used C4 costs $11,000, what else from a C4 can you put in one of these car? Seats? dash? anything?

 

.

 

where do you live?

when you do this swap i dont care where you live i want to do one with someone. That way i can get some experience doign this type of stuff. Only thing is it cant be during school. I'll most likely, if i can, get a plane and find a hotel for a week or more, and help out. I'm a person who has a step-dad that was a certified master mechanic in 1987 but is onyl here 4 days out of a month. Hes in the navy and is stationed in mississippi, and we live in florida. Leaves in february for 8 months too. I dont knwo a lot of people on the boards that live near here so i just might have to go somewhere else todo this stuff.


how much of a drive from jacksonville, florida?


shane

 

.

 

yeah FCCJ has the best auto school in the state of florida. FCCJ = Florida Cummunity College of Jacksonville. I'm gonna go there once i'm done with high school. I'm gonna join the Air Force and they'll pay 100% tunition and room and board. Unlimited hours classes a month(as long as i pass the class),a dn everything else. The hours i'm at school i dont have to goto work. SO if i work from 6AM to 1 PM i only work 1:30PM to 4PM. Its anice way for me to go. Even though my family can afford my college i would like it free.

 

.

 

how ever many years of college you take, you serve. and yeah its nation wide.

You take 4 years of college but you work so little hourse during them they dotn count, so they pay for 4 years, you serve 4 years after that. While your in school you cant goto war either and you get paid full military salary.


I dont remember the rest but i do knwo there are a lot of benefits. Talk to your local recruiter. Just goto one and tell them your just asking questions, if you dont plan on actually joining.

Shane

 

back to the topic......

alright i think the TPI enigne has seised from my head for now. The LT1 and LS1s get so much better gass mileage that thew project will evnetually pay for itself. That way i will be making my money spent back. I get currently 14 city and 16 highway, they will give me much much better. I love this now.

 

you know what guys, my final decision is a MiniRam Intake manifold. Dont even tell me becuase i know the Miniram and Lt1 are almost the same but the MiniRam produces more power. Way more power. And its only $895 plus $355 for fuel rails. Thats pretty cheap considering that my fuel economy will increase and my horsepower beter.

 

Guys sorry about that post, was unfinished because the teacher had just walked right up on me and told me to get off.



But anyway, yeah, I’m going to get the MiniRam intake for my engine. My question is does anybody know what kind of horsepower I will get with is on my Stock 305 before I upgrade to a 350? Or should I upgrade to a 350 then worry about getting the MiniRam later to keep my options open?


I mean the website before has that good 350 engine for really cheap. I don’t really car right now how bad of a job they did rebuilding the engine because it can’t really be that bad. I mean if it works for another 100k miles then I’m happy with it; even still happy if it only works for 50k miles. I just want to upgrade performance cheaply for the first time. I don’t have enough money to get it professionally rebuild because I’m only 16 and I am not the richest kid around. $7/hour isn't much. First things going to be done are pretty simply mods, but nothing in the performance field yet.

Like I said before but currently my list has changed.


Thanks all,
shane

 

arnt u the same guy with the fur headliner? lol

 

yeah thats me!!!!!!!