I've look at these two heads carefully. I've inputed their flow numbers into my Dyno2000 program, and with equally compaired setups, the TFS 23*'s will slightly outperform the AFR 195's. I've heard people hear constantly rant and rave about how good the AFR's are, but when they cost over $1250, and the TFS can be had for $850, what am I missing. $400 more, for just slightly less performance, this doesn't add up. Someone please clue me in as to what I'm not seeing. Here are the specs I have:
TFS 23*
.1 73/69
.2 127/116
.3 186/155
.4 227/183
.5 254/204
.6 265/213

AFR 195
.2 132/108
.3 198/156
.4 240/178
.5 260/190
.55 262/192
.6 262/194


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Rob
'86 TA 305 TPI
Gutted MAF, Ported Plenum
TB Bypass, Home made Cold Air Intake,
Edelbrock T.E.S.

[This message has been edited by R.O.B. (edited March 27, 2001).]

 

go for what you want... i think the afrs are better, but, you do have a good point; im sure you can make up the power output difference easily with 400 bucks--although i'd have afrs first if price wasnt considered, but i've heard lots of nice stuff about TFS products also

 

I did this kind of choice a few moth ago. I went with AFR 195. I think it is worth the X-tra $$$. I have looked at several boards and found nothing but good things about AFR, about the TF there are several people who is't to happy with them....

Just my opinion.....In the end it is the $$$ that decideds anyway...

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GTA -89:Free flow muffler,dual 3" HF cats, Edelbrock headers, Vette heads, 1.52 RR 7/16, ZZ-9 cam, Big Mouth, AS&M LTR, !plenum, 52 TB, MSD 6AL, TPIS level V prom, Superior shift-kit and all the minor mods, a AFR 195 headed 383 in the works!! ready May 2001...
http://www.itv.se/tacs/members_cars/m279/m279.html (Swedish Trans Am Club)

 

I have the TrickFlows and I'm happy with them. I'll be happier when I receive my Accel intake so I can uncork the whole system. Right the stock intake is choking the heads so I'm not seeing the full power potential.

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92 Z28 5.7
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Trick Flow 23° heads, Comp Cams XR270HR-10 cam, Accel intake base + ported TPI,
TES headers, Flowmaster catback, MSD ignition, #24 SVO injectors, 1LE aluminum driveshaft.

Click here to see pics of my car.
Check out our car club Truspeed
Check out the Bin Archive for all your .bin needs

 

Go to www.airflowresearch.com Their numbers seem to be a little higher.

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We need Perry Mason

 

Yea, it always seems that afr advertised numbers are about 5 percent higher than everyone else. I heard someone say it was that west coast air that did it

Lets look at this with some emprical data. Over the last 3 months, there have been about 4 to 5 tests with the TFS23s on 350s. They seem to consistently make about 420 hp and 415-420 ft/lbs of torque (with the comp XE268s). This is just about what you will get with the AFRs. The difference is the TFSs have 1.25 valve springs (I think the 1.44s are now available on the TFS heads at no extra cost) and the AFRs use 1.44s standard. I would save the money on the AFRs and spend the bucks on a good hydroller.

BOOM extra 30 hp right there. A 350 with 450 hp is pretty nice.

[This message has been edited by jcb999 (edited March 28, 2001).]

 

jcb- I like that idea!

 

Trusting the source of the data you have is always a consideration. You didn't mention where your numbers came from. When I see numbers coming from someone's own catalog, I always take them with a grain of salt. A few months ago there was a test done by a magazine (GMHTP, I think) where eight or nine popular aftermarket heads were all tested at a University lab flow bench. All heads had the same bench, all were treated the same (intake radius clay, etc.) and nobody in the lab was in the employ of any of the head manufacturers. In the results of those tests, the TFS 23 head flow numbers were lower than what you posted above. I'm not sure if their numbers would be enough to influence the results of the Dyno program though.

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89 IROC with lots o' stuff

-=ICON Motorsports=-

 

question: what is the size of the intake port on the trickflow 23*?

ok now:

a certain someone who lives in the new england area is using trickflow 23* heads with a t-trim and a 305 and ran a 9.90

 

<a href="http://www.inter-scape.com/ray/headstest/headstest_5.jpg">HERE</a> is a mag article from CHP, where they flowed the AFRs along w/ alot of other heads. You can change the page number in the browser if you wish to view the rest of the article. They also flowed some Trickflow heads, but they are the G2 Twisted wedge heads, not the new 23* heads. (the 23s don't quite flow as good from the numbers I've seen) The G2s weren't quite keeping up w/ the AFRs at lower/mid valve lifts on the intake side... I have another CHP article at home (not scanned) that has flow numbers for the 23*s, I'll try to find it and repost the numbers later tonight sometime.


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Ray87Z
-Vortec headed 350.
86 IROC w/ a cammed 305 TPI.
Formerly Ray86IROC.
www.inter-scape.com/Ray


[This message has been edited by Ray87Z (edited March 29, 2001).]

 

the new 23 head is 195cc according to TFS staff
http://web.camaross.com/bb/Forum13/HTML/003337-2.html

They fixed a number of issues with the valve train geometery that the twisted wedge had.

 

The numbers posted at AFRs website are from an issue of CHP.

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We need Perry Mason

 

The flow numbers are slightly better on the intake side for the AFR and the exhaust side for the Trick Flow.

If it were me, I'd save some money and work the Trick Flows.

If you want something good out of the box and you're not wanting to fool with them then the AFRs might be a better choice for you.

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Two 1984 Trans Ams and some other stuff
Order of the Cacti: www.lotusforum.net/

 

Airflow numbers are a very small part of the whole picture, I wouldnt get so wrapped up in airflow numbers.
If you wanted to do it right, spend the extra money and get the ones with the larger springs. Theres another 75. From there, its up to you if you think the AFR's are worth the extra cost. I dont know really, havent seen enough on the new trick flows to know.