I did some searches on this, and didn't really find anything too clear.
I want to pose a hypothetical question;
I was looking at a the lifter valley of a roller block today, and while inspecting it, it occured to me that it looks like all that sheet of metal does is hold down the guide plates for the lifters. First off, I'd like to ask why it is done like this. It seems like the plates could just be part of the block and work just as well. Do they wear or something, and need to be replaced over time?
Going on that same thought, it doesn't seem as though the area goes through very high stress, so I was wondering why it wouldn't work to grab a MIG welder and weld, maybe even tack weld, the plates to the block. It seems to me that if one were to use a low voltage setting to give it very little penetration, the heat affected area would have no effect on the block at all since the area doesn't seem to go through that much stress. From my understanding a block can be drilled to hold the plate that pushes all of this together, but it seems to me this would be a safer way to do it, provided that V6 short lifters were used.
Am I delusional here, or missing something? Retrofit roller hydraulic lifters cost upwards of 400. And that is just for the lifters. After that you need the cam button and all sorts of stupid junk. OEM lifters go for insanely cheap, so I was just wondering why this wouldn't work.

 

If the plates that held the lifter in place were part of the block, how would you put the lifters in?

 

haha, I didn't even think about that.
So what about the studs for that sheet of metal? Are those able to be brazed or welded to the block, or does the nut push them down too far?

EDIT: Oh, and I know this all may sound stupid, but I'm just coming up with ideas. would they go in through the bottom? You could just hold the bluck upside down that way, right? Or would you only be able to get a few in before they stop fitting?

 

then how are you supposed to get the lifters out?

 

Turn the engine upsidedown and pull the cam. Used to be done with mushroom flat-tappet lifters.

If you aren't careful, you're going to get RB started about the factory roller design.

 

Who, me?? No, you have it all wrong. Child, you cut me to the quick! In fact, I deeply admire the factory roller system. No comedian I have ever seen can rival that nonsense. And besides, the guy that came up with that is obviously much smarter than me; it had never even remotely occured to me that it was a good idea to totally re-tool the block design in order to EXPENSIVELY and INCOMPATIBLY re-invent the wheel that all the rest of us had been successfully using in the highest possible stress applications for all these decades before that genius at GM finally got hipped up to the notion somehow, and decided to do the roller thing as his junior engineering project while he was doing his summer internship there. The guy must have actually gone to a race track {GASP} or something that summer, and somebody let him look inside a real race motor. But I digress. Anyway....

The tapped holes are RIGHT IMMEDIATELY ON TOP OF the main oil gallery that oils all the bearings. Mains, rods, cam bearings. All of them. Basically, that one passage, the one that looks from the outside (of the casting) like a little hump or spine running the whole length of the block, feeds pressurized oil to everything except the lifters.

Now I realize this isn't a particularly critical or even important function or anything; but all the same, I believe it's a REAL GOOD SPOT to just leave the block alone and use whatever is there without trying to outsmart the factory.

Where are you going with all this in the first place?

 

Notwithstanding RB's lack of GM's sales perspective...

Have you ever tried to weld steel to cast iron? Have a big oven? Maybe we can get ede to chime in now too.

 

Replacement OEM-type lifters go for about the same price as retrofit. The benefit of retrofitting rollers into a non-roller block for street use, especially with hydraulics, is minimal at best.

One of the magazines recently featured somebody's (I forget whose) new roller design that has a nub on the side of the lifter. You use a supplied jig & drill bit to make the required channel in the lifter bore for the nub to ride in. No bars, no links, no external guide. Price will eventually come down, I'm sure. Of course, that's the only type of lifters that block will ever see again (unless you sleeve the lifter bores).

 

Eh, I never really thought of roller lifters as being a minimal gain, if that's what you're saying. That may be true, and this may all just be space taken up on the forum, but I was just thinking about it for some reason. It seemed like the design was so simplistic that there should be some way to do it with less compromise, just couldn't think of a way.

 

I have seen someone run the LS1 style lifter retainers in a regular SBC as the lifters are the same. The retainer has a little spring that pops the lifter up out of the way of the cam when the push rod is removed. All he has to do to swap cams is pull the distributer, spin the engine over twice to rotate the cam, then the cam can come out. He doesn't even have to pull the intake.

 

I'd sum it up this way: Have a roller block or retrofit lifters? Keep it roller. Have a non-roller block, and this is a street application? Keep it flat-tappet.

There are those rollers with a "skirt" that hangs over the lobes to keep the lifter from twisting in the bore. Haven't seen much of them around, though.

 

I have a question. I hope this is the right place I recently got a 35 late model block from a machine shop. The motor is a 4 bolt main core engine. The block has the mounting bossis for the spider tray(untapped), has the front machined for the cam plate. But the lifter bores dont go all the way to the top. Will this block work with the factory roller lifter or will I have to run an after market lifter? I can send pics if that will help. It might take me awhile to figure how to send them. Thanks Randy.

 

Sounds like a truck block. Do a search or two (probably not on TGO anymore) and you'll find a few good sites that detail what all you have to do to run the stock stuff. All the ones I've gotten have been tapped and ready to go. :shrug: