Well im going to start ordering parts for this 350 either later tonight or tomorrow. i just have a few last minute questions before i hit the order button...

Heres some specs so you know whats going on...

350 4bolt block
305 heads (not sure on casting number, off of 84 LG4)
Lunati Cam & lifters- 07104LK .490/.490 290*/290* 1500-6200RPM
Jegs aluminum roller rockers
Comp cams magnum 5/16 pushrods, std length
Edelbrock RPM air gap manifold

thats going to put me back about $700us


Im really wondering about the camshaft, its specs look way to wild to make that wide of a powerband. Think it will be fine with a stock stall in a 700R4 and possibly Th350C? (same stall i think)

I decided to go with the jegs roller rockers as they are only a few bucks more than non rollers, will i need any mods or anything to use them on these heads? Would i be able to just stick with the OEM stamped pieces or will they fly apart?

Will those std length pushrods work with the roller rockers?

And last but not least what the heck OD/ID valve spring size am i looking for?


That about sums up the brainpicking for tonight!

Thanks in advance...

 

I wouldn't get aluminum rollers for street use. Get some steel rollers or save the money and get some roller tips.

Maybe, but the only way to know is to measure.

Measure the spring pockets on the heads.

 

Ok i guess ill switch it to a set of comp cams magnum rockers, They are the steel with a roller tip. I think im safe to say with those a std length pushrod will be fine.

Any clue what the max lift is on those heads? im wondering if ill be safe going to 1.6 rockers with that cam, it should put me at .522 for lift.

And let me guess GM used 3/8 and 7/16 studs in their heads too...

As for the springs ill wait and do them another time, maybe by the time i order the carb and all the other little gizmos im going to need.

 

You might already be over max lift on stock heads at .490 either because of the valve guides or the stock springs, I doubt you'd be able to get away with .522. You'd probably have to enlarge the pushrod slots too.

 

ouch! ok, i definately plan on swapping out the springs to a set that will match the cam. Hopefully it wont mash the valve guides with 1.5 rockers.

What kind of work is involved if it does hit? is it something a guy can hack up with a die grinder in the back yard?


Do these rockers have to be self aligning for this app?

 

You'd have to machine the valve guides. There are tools available to do it yourself.

If your heads have pushrod guide slots, you need non-self aligning rockers. If they don't, then you need self-aligning rockers.

 

cool tool and its fairly cheap too.

Would i be alot safer getting comp cams magnum 270H cam kit, its specs are .470/.470 270*/270* 1800-5800 RPM.

Im guessing that would be alot more towards what these heads can handle without any machine work.

 

I'd pick an Xtreme Energy cam over a Magnum. The XE268 works nicely for street use, if you've got the valve guide clearance.

 

I was just messing around on dd2000 and saw that the XE cam has a bit more torque and alot more flat power band than the magnum at the sacrafice of only a couple ponys.

Acording to dd2000 i should be pulling 375hp @ 5500 and 410lb @ 3500

1hp @ 11000RPM

So i might be lucky if it will put 300hp to the ground.

 

im running a setup pretty similar to this, except my lunati is a voodoo, and i dont have an air gap. it makes good power, but i dont think its anywhere near 375hp, and i my 305 heads are machined for for 2.02/1.60 valves. granted, my cam is slightly smaller.
it took a little bit of machining the guides to get it to handle .510 lift (i'm only pushing it to .489).
and definatly go with the magnum roller tips, i love mine.

 

sainted, which voodoo cam do you have?
I'm planning on getting the voodoo "268" cam, it's comparable to the compe 268XE, but lunati claims more power. (what a shock right?). Might be worth looking into.

For that cam range, a single spring, like the comp981 is probably around the recommended size, and it should fit the factory pocket (1.25" OD). If you want more top end stability, maybe get the spring pockets opened up to 1.43", so you can use a dual spring like the comp 986.

I'll be doing a very similar build to what you have planned (ha! you've come down from your 500HP blown stroker to a piddly build like mine!).... summit to buy the parts? or hi-performance.com?

I think i'll try and do some of the stuff like shortening valve guides myself, on the mill, ( I don't think it's a super accurate type of thing), but remember, you're probably going to need new valve guides anyway right?
and cutting intake valve open larger (1.94), maybe machining for guide plates/screw in studs, opening spring pocket... chances are you'll be sending away the heads for a few things at least.

if you were unsure about the rocker stud, it's a 7/16" stud into the head, and 3/8"-NF for the rocker itself. So you'll be buying 3/8" rockers, unless you upgrade to 7/16" rockers and studs. (unnecessary).

 

I have that comp magnum 270 cam. I love it. I wish I would've had the money to have bigger valves put in my 416's and do some work to them. I like that setup a lot. torque moved up in the power band a bit, but I did a burn out in my church parking lot and it laid down two of the blackest streaks I've ever seen. Which I'm still trying to figure out cause I don't have posi.

 

If you use a valve guide cutter instead of doing it on the mill you can use positive valve seals too.

 

well, i'll have to see if I *need* new guides first... they seem pretty expensive.

I was going to use the felpro viton seals that fit on standard valve guides.... I'll see if it's worth buying a valve guide cutter for one set of heads...(i'd still be using a mill to use that cutter though right?) Then I might go with that idea.

 

If you need new valve guides, you're talking about a new valve guide insert which would be pressed in after drilling out the hole. What I'm calling the valve guide is actually the valve guide boss in the head. You can machine the valve guide bosses down for extra lift and positive seals without touching the inserts.

The cutting tool from Comp or Crane or whoever doesn't need to be done in a mill, it works in a hand drill. It uses an arbor down the hole to keep things straight.

In any case, if you have to have the valve guide bosses cut down, there's no point in not doing it for positive seals.

 

Im still going to do the blown stroker one day, but for now because i just bought another camaro i want to build a cheap half decent motor for it.

 

oh ok. Good choice then. Where are you ordering the parts from if I may ask?

The .530 guide cutter is $60, and the 11/32" arbor is $20. I wonder if I can get a shop to do the work for under $80....

oh ok, I wasn't sure if the inserts would also have to be machined...
I played around with some 993 heads, and put in a stock valve, and checking the play in it, (spec being around .005" or something), it was fine. So i'll have to check my 416 heads when I get around to removing them.

hand drill? there'd be no way to measure how far to cut them down.. Guess it's not a very precision thing to do eh?

 

I was going to order through summit unless i can find a half decent place up in canada to save on border fees and all the other bs crap involved in shipping across the border.

 

Order from Summit and have them ship USPS. You'll only pay a $4 fee to Canada Post for them to collect the GST.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong,but for what you'll spend on 305 heads,by the time cut them for larger valves,machine them for clearence at the guide,possibly cut them for bigger springs,and machine them for screw in studs and guideplates,couldn't you get some S/R tourqers,or possibly some iron eagles and have a set of new castings that are far superior to the 305 heads and are set up,ready to go?

Think about it,the $20 and $50 items add up to a few hundred fast.

 

A pair of assembled S/R Torquers cost about $900 CAD. If you were on a budget, you could get a lot of machine work done for that, even more if you could do some of it yourself.

 

I doubt he'd have to spend over $400 on the heads (that's absolute max), compared to $800+ for aftermarket ones.

You sure about that?? USPS ground? $4 fee, plus transfer the value of the goods US-> CAD money, then add on 7%gst?
So if he (or I for that matter), bought say $600US of stuff = $715CAD, 7% = $50 canadian fee?
(that doesn't include the $24 fee, for an international order @summit...)
So a $600 summit order, would be $800CAD. Not too bad...
I think that's a bit optimistic, i've been burned on many shipments from USA, espescially lately... That sounds too good to be true....


See what hi-performance.com has... They don't have nearly the selection of summit, but they've got some pretty decent prices. Plus free shipping. You could always order from MOPAC too... I'm getting some parts at a bumper2bumper auto parts store in cochrane. He gets the parts from the MOPAC at cost, then sells them to me at a pretty fair price, and I probably pay about what it shows on the shelf over there, with no hassle of getting there. $57 for the LCA poly bushings, compared to $60 @ C-tire, $40US on summit....
If you have a mom&pop type of auto parts store, they might do it for you.

 

Canada isn't "international", Summit's handling fee is only $8.95 USD.

The $5 fee (typed it wrong above) from Canada Post is a seperate charge collected at delivery along with the GST. If you're paying $50 in taxes they'll collect $55.

GST is only paid on the declared value of goods, not on shipping and handling fees.

For comparison, UPS will charge brokerage fees that depend on the declared value of the shipment, in addition to the taxes they collect. On a package that had $50 in taxes, they'd charge $46.85, so they'd collect a total of $96.85 before releasing your package.

 

Well that's good to know... geez, so I'll only pay taxes, on the CAD value of the goods.. (gee, kinda like I pay here... ) 'cept the prices are better.

Well I'll be damned, thanks for the tip! I'll be finding that out pretty soon...

EDIT: Does that mean shipping is also free, as it is in USA?

 

No, you still pay for shipping, but USPS has the cheapest rates by far.

 

that hi-performance.com doesnt seem like its much of a bargain...

XE268H cam $159.95ca

Summit
XE268H Cam $94.88/$113.27ca


I dont think it will cost me $50 to get it up here so i can save a few dollars, though i have to wait for customs and all the other bull.

 

The price might come out somewhat close with shipping. Ordering a single part from Summit isn't usually very cost-effective. It's better to combine parts to save on shipping.

 

im running a voodoo 262. its .468" @ 219* and .489" @ 227*(.050 lift). its probably the best cam i've ever owned. it makes more power than the comp cams XE274H i had in my last motor. makes power quick and pulls well above 6k. throttle resoponse is sick. the timg may be a little on the small side, but it's got a big bite.

 

saint, what heads are you running with that cam? think that will work half decent on a stock stall?

 

oh damn, check this out...

RPM air gap manifold

Summit $203.88us/243.35ca

local parts store $382.79!

Thats just bloody retarded...

 

if you have an advance auto, ours here orders stuff and their prices are as cheap or cheaper than Summits without the shipping. and it'll be here the next day. Ordered a fuel pump around 7 on a saturday. After church around 10 am it was there waiting on me.

 

no advance auto up here

Just good ol' crappy tire, bumper to bumper and NAPA.

 

Isn't absolutely everything more expensive in NWT? you're so far up in the boonies...
Yea, go for summit, i'll be ordering some rear end parts here soon, then putting in a giant engine order after christmas (which i'll be getting my mom to bring me back over the border.)

 

Don't forget to give your mom a blank cheque for taxes at the border.

 

Anyone know of a good priced speed shop or parts shop in montana area??

My Sister lives in Alberta about an hours drive from the border, i could get her to go down and pick up parts for me.

 

Have her open an account at a Mailboxes, Etc. or similar establishment, and have your parts shipped there for her to pick up. A lot of suppliers offer free shipping to addresses within the contiguous states. You'll just have to pay for GST at the border and whatever it costs to get your parts from her to you.

 

exactly. Summit ships for free.

My mom will be in USA for ~1month, so duty free (tax free) value of stuff to bring back is rather large for a stay that long, something like $2k, which will be almost exactly what i'll be buying.

If your sister knows someone in montana that can receive the goods, go for that. Or if she's planning on staying longer. 48hrs lets you bring back like $500 or something, duty free... I was looking at the US border website about that lately, I forget now though...

Edit: looks like 1 week or more gives $750 CAD. So i'll be having some things shipped to me then anyway...

 

http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/E/pub/cp/...tml#P174_20306

 

Sounds easier to just buy a plane and fly down to get the parts, land in the street get the parts and fly back before they can shoot me down

Damn im going to still end up paying $150 at the border, gas for her to drive down and shipping up to here...

 

Could be worse. You could have to pay 25% income tax on every dime you earn, including what you pay for food .

 

I make up for it in fuel costs...

 

You only pay 25%, and you're complaining?

 

Well, I wish I had the income to be in a higher tax bracket

84z28350: I sent you a PM.

 

That's what I say, paying high taxes is a privlege. Paying a lot of taxes just means you made a lot of money.

If you ever want to try paying real taxes, come on up to Canada, or over to anywhere in Europe.

 

This is such a fun, and informative thread.

84z, yea, i'm pretty sure your best bet will be USPS ground on summit parts, or special ordering from parts stores. Otherwise, you'd be looking at a quasi legal, getting someone to bring over a ton of stuff across the border, hope they aren't searched, then greyhound it up to you... Chances are though, it'll be taken at the border and you'll be SOL.

 

I'm running worked over 305 "416" castings. I had to do a little shaving on the valve guides to get them to .510", which is what springs I have on there, and I had the machine shop cut them for 2.02/1.60 valves. They did some clearancing to reduce shrouding in the chambers which resulted in the chamber volume going from 58cc (I think) to 64cc.

Jegs recommends improving your valvetrain. The power range on my cam is 1400-5800 RPM (I can tell you for sure that it pulls hard well above that). You'd have to ask one of these automatic gurus to know how acceptable that is on a stock converter, but usually the manufacturer will recommend things like that. I do know that the bigger they get, the higher the RPM range shifts.

Voodoo cams @ Jegs.com

 

You guys think this motor will get this beastly chunk of steel into the 13s??

 

Shouldn't be a problem.

 

kinda beaten this thread to death by now...

84z, care to PM me with how you decided to get your parts, and maybe what extra costs were incurred? just curious.

in my search for that lunati 60103 cam, I found:

summit, $110 USD + shipping, border fee/duty + 4-6 weeks wait
Bumper to bumper - $170CA +tax, not sure on wait time
MOPAC - $135CA+tax, ~3 weeks wait.

So it looks like MOPAC is actually the winner here, bonus to that is easy to return if something goes wrong. You may be able to get someone to get the parts from MOPAC then greyhound it to you, or I think you can mail order from them.

PS. Apeiron, yea, ok, MOPAC is open on saturday.

 

Not a problem, ill let you know once everything is all said and done.