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Valve seal and Spring help

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Old Nov 22, 2005 | 08:46 PM
  #1  
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From: Browns Town
Car: 86 Monte SS (730,$8D,G3,AP,4K,S_V4)
Engine: 406 Hyd Roller 236/242
Transmission: 700R4 HomeBrew, 2.4K stall
Axle/Gears: 3:73 Posi, 7.5 Soon to break
Valve seal and Spring help

Not sure what to do on this.
I have world Sportsman II heads that I picked up last summer. They are the 64cc, straight plug heads I believe to be -1's.
I am now upgrading my cam to a 224/230 @112.
The springs listed for this were 986's so that is what I bought with the proper retainers and locks.
I purchased some teflon positive lock seals due to the dual spring setup will not work with the umbrella type(or so I'm led to believe)

Problems:
1.) The stem seals do not fit over the guide boss like the umbrellas did. They are 0.531 for 11/32 valves.
Do they need to fully go over them or can they rest on the taper?
I see no listings for larger diameter seals So should I force the teflon over the boss? (I have the tool BTW)

2.) the inner spring does not fit over the central portion. They stop on the taper below the seal boss area.
I'm thinking they should go all the way down to the base. Am I correct?

3.) The O.D. of the outer spring will fit because of the overbored area on the heads as they cam from World.
They sit like right on the edge between the counterbores. They would probably work if centered and retained there but don't know if they will stay put.
Do I need a spring cup or something for that?

Sorry for the long read, just want to give as much detail on this.
Thanks in advance,
Jp
Here is the guide area.
Attached Thumbnails Valve seal and Spring help-guide1.jpg  

Last edited by JP86SS; Nov 22, 2005 at 08:50 PM.
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Old Nov 22, 2005 | 08:48 PM
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JP86SS's Avatar
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From: Browns Town
Car: 86 Monte SS (730,$8D,G3,AP,4K,S_V4)
Engine: 406 Hyd Roller 236/242
Transmission: 700R4 HomeBrew, 2.4K stall
Axle/Gears: 3:73 Posi, 7.5 Soon to break
The seal

As you see, it will take allot of stretching to get it over the guide boss.
Attached Thumbnails Valve seal and Spring help-seal1.jpg  
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Old Nov 22, 2005 | 08:49 PM
  #3  
JP86SS's Avatar
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From: Browns Town
Car: 86 Monte SS (730,$8D,G3,AP,4K,S_V4)
Engine: 406 Hyd Roller 236/242
Transmission: 700R4 HomeBrew, 2.4K stall
Axle/Gears: 3:73 Posi, 7.5 Soon to break
The spring

Does not fit over the lower taper.
Attached Thumbnails Valve seal and Spring help-inner1.jpg  
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Old Nov 23, 2005 | 01:42 AM
  #4  
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From: Mercedes Norte, Heredia, Costa Rica
Car: 1984 Z28 Hardtop
Engine: 383 Carb
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 3.54 Dana 44
You'll need to machine your valve guides for those springs and seals.
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Old Nov 23, 2005 | 06:53 AM
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JP86SS's Avatar
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From: Browns Town
Car: 86 Monte SS (730,$8D,G3,AP,4K,S_V4)
Engine: 406 Hyd Roller 236/242
Transmission: 700R4 HomeBrew, 2.4K stall
Axle/Gears: 3:73 Posi, 7.5 Soon to break
Is there a standard tool that will cut post down so that the valve seal area will be 0.531 and also trim the base of the guide?
I have access to an NC shop with a mill but would have to supply tooling to them. Looked throught the stuff Summit sels but didn't see anything to make the seal area the right size.
Or should I investigate having them done by someone who knows? (probably will cost $)
Didn't see this difficulty when I went forward on my project.
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Old Nov 23, 2005 | 10:25 AM
  #6  
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From: Calgary, AB, Canada
Car: 1982 Trans-Am
Engine: 355 w/ ported 416s
Transmission: T10, hurst shifter
Axle/Gears: 10 bolt, true-trac, 3.73
comp cams makes the tooling... I was looking into it a little while ago. You'll need an arbor ($20), and the tool for the seals is ~$40, and to cut the spring pocket is another $40.
Check comps website, look under valve seals, it's on that page where the tools are. Then search summit with those part numbers. (or your local speed shop.)
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Old Nov 23, 2005 | 10:52 AM
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From: Philly, PA
You don't need a spring cup on the bottom- the foot of the guide boss should be machined down enough that the spring and the dampener coil inside it fit over it but are still close enough that it retains the bottom of the spring from the INSIDE of it.

Little 1.25" diameter springs don't walk around too much, anyway. I run them on Iron Eagle heads that have no such foot on the bottom of the guide boss- and I don't use any kind of spring cup or locating device. Yes, they walk around a maybe a little but nothing that has ever caused a problem below 6000 RPMs for many many miles.
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Old Nov 23, 2005 | 11:26 AM
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From: Browns Town
Car: 86 Monte SS (730,$8D,G3,AP,4K,S_V4)
Engine: 406 Hyd Roller 236/242
Transmission: 700R4 HomeBrew, 2.4K stall
Axle/Gears: 3:73 Posi, 7.5 Soon to break
Thanks for the info guys.
Its just turned out to be more than I wanted to do but its for a good cause
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