Thanks in advance for any help. I own 8 cars, mostly Mopar, and I know my way around an engine bay. My last 3rd gen was an 89 IROC I bought new. I bid on two cars on Ebay and...ended up winning them both. Not wanting to ruin my feedback rating, $5000 later and I have two very different 89 Formula 350's.

Car one has factory dual exhausts and aluminum driveshaft (came with original window sticker) SLP headers, SLP runners, 58mm throttle body, ACCEL injectors, Hotchkiss arms, Edelbrock Panhard bar, frame is tied, roller cam and lifters, GTA ground effects kit, fiberglass hood, 2000 rpm stall blah, blah, blah. Very fast, but for some reason boring.

Car two is basically a stock Formula 350 with flowmasters. For some reason however, it only will start with a squirt of starting fluid in the TB. It idles real rough. It doesn't throw any error codes. It starts when it's hot. When it runs it drives like a 60's / 70's musclecar and has a nice feel to it. It has an adjustable fuel pressure regulator and is getting 50 PSI at the schrader valve. I've replaced the fuel filter and fuel pump relay. I've read about the cold start injector but supposedly, 89 was the year that was eliminated.

So.......any ideas on why car two won't start?

And, I know it's my decision but, which car would you keep and while I'm at it, what do you think car one is worth?

Thanks - Doug in Detroit

 

I like the stockers myself so I can do the modding my way if I choose. GTA Ground effects kit? Ack! The other mods sound pretty good. Let's see some pix!

 

Here's some pics. Hope I did it right.

 

Both black, a great color for Formulas! I personally prefer the stocker in this case, that's pretty much how I kept my white '89 Formula 350 when I had it except for aftermarket exhaust and headers. What are the miles on both?

 

Car one has a fresh rebuild and is at 91K. Car two 130K with a recent valve job. Are the aluminum driveshaft and factory dual cats a rare option?

 

Hard choice, since they remind of my 86 Trans Am and 88 Formula, and I liked both cars.

Replace the module on the distributor of the car that won't start when cold and see if that helps, also drop the pressure down to 43psi or so.

 

What does the undercarriage look like on both cars. If the car doesn't rust away then anything can be rebuilt over the years. So can rust but it's alot of work.

 

Car two is cleaner. Was a Florida car. Just bled the brakes and didn't even need PB Blaster to open the bleeder valves. Car one is clean as well, nothing serious but there's a lot of corrosion on brake lines etc.

I will pick up a contol module tomorrow and try that.

 

Interesting about the dual cats. When I bought my '89 Formula 350 new, mine did not come with them, according to the catalog they were supposed to. So, they offered me an extended warranty or the price of the option, I picked the extended warranty!

 

Just the hood is enough to make the decision for me. The cowl hoods are as gay and goofy as installing "racing seats" instead of new upholstry. Color and style mismatch are just a thing of beauty.

But, that is probably just me.

 

I went from torn stock seats to perfect leather seats and then to racing seats.

 

I agree. Holding it open with a 2x4 is really cool to. It is a factor. But it's soooo quick.
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New module installed and pressure lowered. No change...

 

I'd keep the first car. I'm not sure why i'm the first person here to choose the car that's probably worth triple what the second one is, and actually RUNS.
It's a beautiful car, modified powertrain and suspension with a slick cowl hood. Seems like an easy choice to me.

So car #2, no codes, and only fires with starter fluid? But will continue to run, decently? Did the PO give any indications at all? Any hints or mods?
I'd like to think it'd be as simple as cleaning the injectors or something, but when someone sells a car not running, it's usually something major. Maybe buddy dropped in a big cam and had no idea he had to tune it, then dumped the car? Any sounds of mechanical engine failure type of things? Knocking or ticking or anything? Puffing any colored smoke?

 

Wow, these are great points. I don't think the engines anything but stock...engine is very quiet, no strange noises or smoke. Runs great after it starts. Runs better than the other car that has all the mods. PO told me he replaced the heads about 20K ago. He was a parts counter guy at a Pontiac dealership and had all work done at the dealership. His mechanic told him the fuel pump was good. I replaced the fuel pump relay which didn't help. I do not hear the fuel pump "buzz" when I switch the ignition on like I do with the other car. Help me Sonix! (and other third gen Masters!)

 

oh man, i'm one of the last people to ask about fuel injected problems...

Hmm, I wonder what kind of heads are on there? Might be worth popping off a valve cover and checking the casting number. Just for curiositys sake.

Reason I guessed a bigger cam is
These cars with a stock cam should be pretty tame as far as idle and whatnot. No rumble or lope. I mean, it'd be fast, so that part I can agree with, but if you meant lopey idle then...

Yea, it certainly sounds like a fuel problem, anytime you inject your own fuel and it runs after.... But if it runs ok after firing up...

What tells the fuel pump to kick on? Ignition wire, anything else? Any reason why it might not fire up until it's already running? (oddball, but that seems to be the situation eh?)

I don't even want to take stabs at this, I don't know how those voodoo FI systems work

 

ECM tells the pump to turn on to prime for 2 seconds.
Module in the distributor fires the injectors until the motor reaches 300rpm then the ECM takes control.
There is an oil pressure switch that runs in parallel with the fuel pump relay to power the pump if the relay goes bad, 3-5psi of oil pressure turns on this switch.

 

Zepher this is excellent info. I replaced the ignition module and no change. Are you suggesting a change in the oil pressure switch? Funny you brought this up, there is a pillar pod with an oil pressure gauge that is inop. I wonder if they are related.

 

I would put the ECM from the non-starting 89 into the other car to see if the ECM is working correctly.
You mainly want to see if the fuek pump will prime and if the car tries to fire up.

The oil pressure switch is a backup, to test it, unplug the fuel pump relay and try and start the car (or with the car running, unplug the relay and see if the car runs or dies). I can't remember if the switch style changed in 89 or later, but on my 88 it is next to the distributor, attached to a y-block with my oil pressure sender.
the other style is a one piece dual function sender that is located right above the oil filter.

 

bump

 

id keep the cowl hood no mater witch car you use.

 

I've thought about that. Looks like it's worth about $350.00. If I sell car one I would also pull the aluminum driveshaft.