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Installed AFPR, car won't run now......

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Old Dec 14, 2007 | 07:20 PM
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billybengal's Avatar
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Installed AFPR, car won't run now......

I am reposting this as I posted it in a wrong section I guess. Here it goes:
Can someone help me out with this?
I took off the plenum and installed a BBK AFPR. There was something funky about the pressure. I could completely unscrew the screw or completely screw it in and the pressure would read the same (around 60 psi). Anyways, the car wouldn't run. I took the plenum off again and reinstalled the factory Fuel Pressure Regulator. I was completely shocked to find out that my Camaro wouldn't run with the old one either. Now, by "not running" I mean it will start and die right away. If I give it a lot of throttle (3/4) it will rev up and it I'm able to keep it up above 3500 rpm although it's not easl keep it running. If I go down even a bit on the throttle it dies right away. I just bought it two weeks ago. It was a little slugish although it had only 60K+ miles. I changed plugs, wires, cap/rotor, put in K&N and advanced the timing to 10 btdc (before it was set to 2 atdc), set the tps sensor to .54. Before it was set to 2 atdc. I run on 93 octane so there is no knocking or anything. After I did all of the above (except for the afpr) the car ran 6 mph faster on a quarter mile and that was when I tested it on wet pavement. It just ran unbelievable comparing to how it ran when I bought it. But anyways, this is all the "not stock" stuff, the biggest timing (already played with it after the crap with afpr) and the K&Ns. I had to take it out of the garage and drive it home as I used somebody else garage. Lucky me I didn't have to drive far, but when I did I got check engine light and when I checked it it turned out the engine was running lean. So can someone help me based on this info?
Rebember, it does start it just runs like crap. I'm 100% sure no tune up is needed. I think the afpr is fine unless my fuel pressure gauge is broken, but it's brand new, I'm sure it's ok. I'll appreciate any help. Thank you. P.S. I'm not really great with some things, so if someone tells me for example "test this or that sensor" can you also tell me how? Thank you all a lot for your responses!!!!!!!
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Old Dec 14, 2007 | 07:28 PM
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From: St. Louis, Missouri
Car: 1989 Firebird Formula
Engine: 383 Stealth Ram
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.73 9 bolt Posi
Re: Installed AFPR, car won't run now......

Did you change the fuel filter? It may be clogged.
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Old Dec 14, 2007 | 08:07 PM
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billybengal's Avatar
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Re: Installed AFPR, car won't run now......

Originally Posted by formula_novice
Did you change the fuel filter? It may be clogged.
Fuel filter is fine. So is the fuel pressure.
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Old Dec 15, 2007 | 10:34 AM
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From: Houston, Texas
Car: 88' IROCZ
Engine: 388 TPI Motown 350 Race block
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 2.77
Re: Installed AFPR, car won't run now......

What model do you have?
stock engine?
Can you list step by step how you reset the timing?
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Old Dec 15, 2007 | 10:59 AM
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Re: Installed AFPR, car won't run now......

Originally Posted by rgarcia63
What model do you have?
stock engine?
Can you list step by step how you reset the timing?
The engine is a stock 350. The timing was set a week earlier when I did the tune up. The car ran perfectly fine after the tune up and timing set. It's when I unbolted the plenum, removed the fpr and replaced it with afpr that the car broke. Back to original fpr - same problem. I switched them back and forth - same problem. The fuel pressure seems to be fine according to my gauge but the car won't work wether I got it set to 30 psi or 50 psi or in between. All wires, vacuums are in place, including the ignition advance wire (the one that needs to be disconnected to set timing). The service engine soon light gave me lean exhaust code, but the injectors work and the fuel pressure is fine.
I absolutely have no idea where to look. Somone suggested replacing the Ignition Module, but it's possible to start the car and I read that if the module goes down the car won't start.
I got no idea anymore.
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Old Dec 15, 2007 | 11:26 AM
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From: Houston, Texas
Car: 88' IROCZ
Engine: 388 TPI Motown 350 Race block
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 2.77
Re: Installed AFPR, car won't run now......

From the pressure levels posted I assume this is an L98 TPI.

You do know that the ECM knows that the initial timing is 8, not 10 and it's timing control is based on that fact?
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Old Dec 15, 2007 | 11:51 AM
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From: CT
Car: 1986 IROC
Engine: 1996 LT1 EFI ODBII
Transmission: 700R4
Re: Installed AFPR, car won't run now......

Almost sounds like your vacuum is low. That would prevent running at the lower RPMs. Check all your plenum gaskets and vacuum lines for leaks.
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Old Dec 15, 2007 | 12:01 PM
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Re: Installed AFPR, car won't run now......

Originally Posted by rgrismer
Almost sounds like your vacuum is low. That would prevent running at the lower RPMs. Check all your plenum gaskets and vacuum lines for leaks.
All gaskets and vacuums are intact. :-(
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Old Dec 15, 2007 | 02:41 PM
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Re: Installed AFPR, car won't run now......

I'm wondering if it's possible that injectors sort of died. Does any of you guys know if too high of a fuel pressure could have damaged them so now they do not provide enough fuel? Fuel pressure is fine but the diagnostic code says exhaust is lean. So I'm wondering if the afpr "semi-killed" the injectors.
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Old Dec 15, 2007 | 03:35 PM
  #10  
rgarcia63's Avatar
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From: Houston, Texas
Car: 88' IROCZ
Engine: 388 TPI Motown 350 Race block
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 2.77
Re: Installed AFPR, car won't run now......

Originally Posted by billybengal
I'm wondering if it's possible that injectors sort of died. Does any of you guys know if too high of a fuel pressure could have damaged them so now they do not provide enough fuel? Fuel pressure is fine but the diagnostic code says exhaust is lean. So I'm wondering if the afpr "semi-killed" the injectors.
If you really believe that's the problem, or part of it. Then remove all doubt by:
Since you've already taken the it apart twice shouldn't be much trouble to do it again.
Remove runners & plenum
keeping the fuel system together, but raise it high enough to get glass containers under the injectors, remove the coil to dizzy spark wire, then crank the engine. You should see all the injectors spraying.

I did this once, suspected the injectors, they were new Accels (many ragged about how bad they were,) yes the injectors weren't flowing properly, not because they were bad, but because the entire fuel system was contaminated with rust from the gas tank.
Correct pressure, signal, and injector resistance doesn't guarantee the injectors are flowing/spraying correctly.
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Old Dec 15, 2007 | 04:26 PM
  #11  
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Re: Installed AFPR, car won't run now......

Hey, thanks for the tip. Now what's the best way to test the injectors then? The only test I did when I was messing with the car was that I put a screw driver to them while the engine was running to feel for the "knock". Should I take them out one by one, start the engine and see how it sprays? BTW, one another thing I just remember, before I drove to the garage where I changed the AFPR I dumped some injector cleaner into the tank. I had about a 1/3 of a tank of gas. Now I'm thinking this could have screwed something up. I just read a moment ago about a guy who has a 305 TBI and his car ran fine on LPG (he's in Europe and it's a common thing to install an LPG system since LPG is costasts around 60% less then gasoline) but it had the same problem as mine while on gas. He found out after a long time that a gas line in his tank was rubber and it almost like dissolved. I'm wondering if the crap I put in the tank could have done the same thing. It sort of would make sense since I put it in, drove right away and then stopped and didn't start car for a few hours the crap would be through out the fuel system just sitting and messing things up. But anyways. If someone could tell me the best way to test injectors I'd appreciate it a lot.
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Old Dec 15, 2007 | 05:26 PM
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Re: Installed AFPR, car won't run now......

Hey thans a lot for the tip, I'll do that. I think that's the problem. I didn't realize something until now. When the car was running good I dumped a fuel injector into the tank. I bet it disolved some crap and clogged the fuel filter or the injectors. I'll check check both. I had bad thoughts about it, but I thought, hey, a little cleaning won't do any harm, I guess I just went to far trying to care for my baby. It's snowing outside now, but once I check the injectors I'll post my findings. Thanks!
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Old Dec 15, 2007 | 05:49 PM
  #13  
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From: Houston, Texas
Car: 88' IROCZ
Engine: 388 TPI Motown 350 Race block
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 2.77
Re: Installed AFPR, car won't run now......

Originally Posted by billybengal
Hey thans a lot for the tip, I'll do that. I think that's the problem. I didn't realize something until now. When the car was running good I dumped a fuel injector into the tank. I bet it disolved some crap and clogged the fuel filter or the injectors. I'll check check both. I had bad thoughts about it, but I thought, hey, a little cleaning won't do any harm, I guess I just went to far trying to care for my baby. It's snowing outside now, but once I check the injectors I'll post my findings. Thanks!
Something may be clogging up the system, but I don't think it was the cleaner they're not designed to be incompatible with the rubber/plastic parts, wouldn't make sense, not to mention the law suits.

Just have to wait and see.
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