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Need thoughts on engine

Old Jan 26, 2012 | 09:28 PM
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Need thoughts on engine

Man, I feel like such an amatuer on here. Attempting my first build for 1/8th mile all on a budget. here is what I have so far.
86 Z28
Engine - 1978 350 - stock block, heads and crank
Cam - 234/234 480/480
Valve springs matched for cam
Aluminum flat top pistons 10:1
High rise intake with 650 Holley double pumper
Hooker comp headers
I know I have a long way to go but right now motor runs good with very nice throttle response. Any low budget ideas would be great!!
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Old Jan 27, 2012 | 06:27 AM
  #2  
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Re: Need thoughts on engine

You'll probably have to do some test & tuning.
You might have to rejet the carb. & work on the ignition timing curve.
Attached Thumbnails Need thoughts on engine-31f7jxagm7l__sl500_aa300_.jpg  
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Old Jan 28, 2012 | 05:22 AM
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From: St. Cloud, MN
Car: 1984 Trans Am
Engine: LS1383 in work
Transmission: Magnum F - to be installed
Axle/Gears: Zexel Torsen 3.73, 28-spline mosers
Re: Need thoughts on engine

Originally Posted by mid-life86
Man, I feel like such an amatuer on here. Attempting my first build for 1/8th mile all on a budget. here is what I have so far.
86 Z28
Engine - 1978 350 - stock block, heads and crank
Cam - 234/234 480/480
Valve springs matched for cam
Aluminum flat top pistons 10:1
High rise intake with 650 Holley double pumper
Hooker comp headers
I know I have a long way to go but right now motor runs good with very nice throttle response. Any low budget ideas would be great!!
Is the car only going to be used on the track or weekend cruiser or daily driver? Being an awsome track car ususally precludes being any good for a daily driver. Biggest thing you need to do to help us help you...is define "Budget". lol....

Do you have dual exhaust or 3" single cat-back? Do you have headers? A good exhaust upgrade from stock manifolds will free up anywhere from 15-30hp depending on your car.

If the heads are stock to 1978, get rid of them and go after market. You can probably pick up a good used set on Ebay or local craigs list. Also check the "parts for sale" boards here on this site. For new..,World, Trick Flow or AFR come to mind but that's $1200 for a set. That cam is too big for Vortec's which top at .475, though I'm sure you could find a shop that can mill them for you.
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Old Jan 30, 2012 | 09:35 PM
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Re: Need thoughts on engine

Hey Ozz, thanks for the reply! The car is strictly 1/8th mile, it has hooker competition headers (1 5/8 primary with 3 inch collectors. I have 2 1/2 reducers and have dual exhaust running to about back of doors with no mufflers. Budget = what I can convince the wife to give me = not much. lol... I had a guy tell me to get vortecs, should i look at getting something ported or milled, $1200 for heads isn't in the budget. This car is strictly for fun on Saturdays at the track
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Old Jan 31, 2012 | 01:54 AM
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From: St. Cloud, MN
Car: 1984 Trans Am
Engine: LS1383 in work
Transmission: Magnum F - to be installed
Axle/Gears: Zexel Torsen 3.73, 28-spline mosers
Re: Need thoughts on engine

Originally Posted by mid-life86
Hey Ozz, thanks for the reply! The car is strictly 1/8th mile, it has hooker competition headers (1 5/8 primary with 3 inch collectors. I have 2 1/2 reducers and have dual exhaust running to about back of doors with no mufflers. Budget = what I can convince the wife to give me = not much. lol... I had a guy tell me to get vortecs, should i look at getting something ported or milled, $1200 for heads isn't in the budget. This car is strictly for fun on Saturdays at the track
Well...the motor looks pretty set up as it is. I'm not much on cam's, you'll have to ask others however, it looks to me that if you want more 1/8 or 1/4 mile power, you'll need to step up to a 383 to get more torque. Is the engine in the car currently or on a stand in the garage?
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Old Jan 31, 2012 | 08:14 AM
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From: St.Louis, IL
Car: 1988 Camaro
Engine: 377
Transmission: TH350; Circle D 4200 converter
Axle/Gears: Ford 9"
Re: Need thoughts on engine

What gears do you have currently? That, and the best bang for your buck is in a set of cylinder heads. Your stock heads are massively holding you back with that cam you've got in the motor right now assuming they're plain jane stock. If I were you - I'd try to find a nice set of used DART/AFR/BRODIX/TRICKFLOW heads.. I'd recommend the vortecs also, provided you get a good deal on the intake to match them; but at that point you could've used that extra to go towards better heads.. so, yeah.

Outside of that? Suspension. I know you say budget, but there's just some things you HAVE to do if you really want to start moving down the line quick.
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Old Jan 31, 2012 | 02:25 PM
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From: St. Cloud, MN
Car: 1984 Trans Am
Engine: LS1383 in work
Transmission: Magnum F - to be installed
Axle/Gears: Zexel Torsen 3.73, 28-spline mosers
Re: Need thoughts on engine

Originally Posted by DeltaElite121
What gears do you have currently? That, and the best bang for your buck is in a set of cylinder heads. Your stock heads are massively holding you back with that cam you've got in the motor right now assuming they're plain jane stock. If I were you - I'd try to find a nice set of used DART/AFR/BRODIX/TRICKFLOW heads.. I'd recommend the vortecs also, provided you get a good deal on the intake to match them; but at that point you could've used that extra to go towards better heads.. so, yeah.

Outside of that? Suspension. I know you say budget, but there's just some things you HAVE to do if you really want to start moving down the line quick.


New Heads and gears. If $1200 for new isn't in the budget, check out Ebay or our classifieds here, you may find something good. Vortec's just happen to be the best Small block head chevy ever made, not counting some of the newer LS model heads...so thats something to think about. A good set of those with a Vortec Intake ($250ish from Edelbrock) wouldn't set you back too far. Also, for 1/8 mile only? I'd go with 4.11 or 4.88 gears. If you're running 1/4 mile, I would probably stick to 3.73's otherwise you're spinning your RPM's into the stratosphere.

Now, some things to consider. Sub Frame connectors...I would say these are a must on 3rd Gen cars, T-top or not. Polyurethane bushings, again, highly recommended. is the car lowered? Rear lower control arm relocation brackets. Adjustable torque arm, adjustable panhard rod. This will all help keep the car planted and going down the track.

Next, running at a track with slicks or DOT Drag radials on a 10-bolt rear is playing with fire. Once you cross the 375-400ft-lb mark, a 10-bolt is living on borrowed time. One good hook up on slicks could cause a complete disintigration. A couple things you can do is upgrade from your 26-Spline axles to the later model 28 spline axles (89-92 years), then get a brace to help hold it, weld the axles to the carrier etc. But that's expensive. So you'll want to start looking at a 12-bolt or 9". Thos run $2500 new from Strange or Moser but will be built for your car. Oh, and then the tranny will need a rebuilt to handle the extra power, then once that's done, the motor will need to go up to be able to max out your new rear and tranny.. See what you have to look forward to? It never ends!! hahaha

Last edited by Ozz1967; Jan 31, 2012 at 02:30 PM.
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Old Jan 31, 2012 | 03:02 PM
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Car: 89 Iroc-z
Engine: 555 BBC Turbo
Transmission: TH400
Axle/Gears: MWC 9” 3.00
Re: Need thoughts on engine

Budget, get a set of vortec heads, clean them up/mill them down to bump compression, put in good gas, cam it up abit more, lots of converter, lots of gear and go racing

750cfm carb double pumper and a ported dual plane or even single plane but I think it will run abit better with a good dual plane.

Problem is loads of gear in a 10 bolt makes for a tiny pinion gear and it just may not like abuse for a long time and start to break teeth.
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Old Jan 31, 2012 | 06:44 PM
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Re: Need thoughts on engine

Hey Ozz, yea we are thinking this fall in the off season of doing a 383 stroker, we already have the block and rotaing assembly. My current motor is in the car, afew more small things to do then we have a stretch of road we are gonna go out on and see how it does.
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Old Jan 31, 2012 | 06:49 PM
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Re: Need thoughts on engine

Hi Delta, thanks for the post! right now the car has the stock 2.73 gears, I looked at getting a set of 3.73's and I also have purchased a spool for it. I was thinking of Vortec heads, is it possible to have the stock heads reworked enough to handle where I am headed or better to just look for diff heads.
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Old Jan 31, 2012 | 07:02 PM
  #11  
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Re: Need thoughts on engine

Yea Ozz I have a feeling the play toy will only get more serious. I am actually thinking once this is done to run respectable I will probably start looking for a full frame and get away from the F body.
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Old Jan 31, 2012 | 08:24 PM
  #12  
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From: St.Louis, IL
Car: 1988 Camaro
Engine: 377
Transmission: TH350; Circle D 4200 converter
Axle/Gears: Ford 9"
Re: Need thoughts on engine

Originally Posted by mid-life86
Hi Delta, thanks for the post! right now the car has the stock 2.73 gears, I looked at getting a set of 3.73's and I also have purchased a spool for it. I was thinking of Vortec heads, is it possible to have the stock heads reworked enough to handle where I am headed or better to just look for diff heads.
I'd definitely go with a set of 3.73's. You'll feel a huge difference there compared to what you've got in there now.
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Old Jan 31, 2012 | 10:33 PM
  #13  
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Engine: 555 BBC Turbo
Transmission: TH400
Axle/Gears: MWC 9” 3.00
Re: Need thoughts on engine

Stock vortec heads with valve guides machined down to handle more lift and screw in rocker studs will get you a strong performing motor if/when you are ready for it. 400+ hp is possible and thats a stout street motor
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Old Jan 31, 2012 | 10:57 PM
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From: Central Square, NY
Car: 1984 Camaro sport coupe
Engine: 5.0(H/O) 305 carb'd
Transmission: TCI St. Fitr stge 2 700r4 man.valve
Axle/Gears: stock gears, Limited Slip
Re: Need thoughts on engine

Originally Posted by mid-life86
Hi Delta, thanks for the post! right now the car has the stock 2.73 gears, I looked at getting a set of 3.73's and I also have purchased a spool for it. I was thinking of Vortec heads, is it possible to have the stock heads reworked enough to handle where I am headed or better to just look for diff heads.
Originally Posted by DeltaElite121
I'd definitely go with a set of 3.73's. You'll feel a huge difference there compared to what you've got in there now.

i have read up on several tech forums and consulted with couple shops. be careful on the gears you choose.

recommended gears are as follows: for 5spd manual suggested 4.11 gears, for automatics 3.73's or 4.10's.

if you want track performance only and arent planning on driving down city roads and high ways i wouldnt go any higher than 4.11's or 4.10's due to gas mileage dwindling fast. plus you'll be driving down the road doin 30mph but sounding like ur going 70mph. oh and uh make sure you recalibrate ur speedo...just my
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Old Jan 31, 2012 | 11:13 PM
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From: Outside of Austin TX
Car: 92 GMC K2500 LD
Engine: 350 TBI with some mods
Transmission: NV4500
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Re: Need thoughts on engine

If it was only an 1/8 mile car I would get a set of 4.11 gears for it.

What kind of tranny are you running?

As far as heads. I am not sure if these are any good but might be worth checking out. http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMALL-BLOCK-...item4cf76cd187
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Old Jan 31, 2012 | 11:21 PM
  #16  
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From: St.Louis, IL
Car: 1988 Camaro
Engine: 377
Transmission: TH350; Circle D 4200 converter
Axle/Gears: Ford 9"
Re: Need thoughts on engine

Originally Posted by Seafarer12
If it was only an 1/8 mile car I would get a set of 4.11 gears for it.

What kind of tranny are you running?

As far as heads. I am not sure if these are any good but might be worth checking out. http://www.ebay.com/itm/SMALL-BLOCK-...item4cf76cd187
Procomp heads won't come anywhere near their competitors without serious work. That and 210cc's is getting large for a 350. I've got 200cc heads on my 355 (technically 206's) and that's about as big as I want to go at this point. Procomps are better than stock heads assuming they don't need additional work, but for a few bills more you can get a cylinder head that won't have any problems and have a much more exact finished product. I've seen them work fine for others, and I've also seen people dump a LOT into them because they were completely screwed up. I just don't think that kind of money is worth gambling with to see if you're one of the "lucky ones", but that's just me.
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Old Jan 31, 2012 | 11:25 PM
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Car: 92 GMC K2500 LD
Engine: 350 TBI with some mods
Transmission: NV4500
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Re: Need thoughts on engine

They are also half the price of their competitors. Sure they wouldnt be as good as a set of Brodix heads but I bet they would be better than a set of vortecs for about the same money after you take the vortecs to the machine shop and hope you dont have a cracked head.
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Old Feb 1, 2012 | 04:00 PM
  #18  
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From: St.Louis, IL
Car: 1988 Camaro
Engine: 377
Transmission: TH350; Circle D 4200 converter
Axle/Gears: Ford 9"
Re: Need thoughts on engine

Originally Posted by Seafarer12
They are also half the price of their competitors. Sure they wouldnt be as good as a set of Brodix heads but I bet they would be better than a set of vortecs for about the same money after you take the vortecs to the machine shop and hope you dont have a cracked head.
Depends. I bet if you do a google search you can find a LOT of people that said the same thing until they found out one of the boltholes was offcentered, or that the geometry of the head casting itself is not exact. Then they end up spending another $800 into the head(s) just to get them to perform at their subpar standards.. and now you've spent well over your budget when you could've gotten a nice set of heads and been done with it. Let's not forget they're still Procomp heads, and their value is still not very high. Your AFR heads, on the other hand.. will fetch at least $900 all day long.

I'd go with a set of Vortecs over Procomp heads. The chances of a cracked head aren't massive, and even if that's the case.. you're out MAYBE $150 at the most.

To be fair - I've never owned a set of Procomps.. I've WANTED to, but I have seen wayyyy too many horror stories to just blow my money away like that. If I were you, I'd buy them bare and have them assembled with good components because the standard stuff they come with is trash. Then MAYBE I could see buying a set as a viable option.
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Old Feb 1, 2012 | 04:09 PM
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Re: Need thoughts on engine

If you want a decent quality budget head, go with Dart SHP heads which are based on old pro 1's. They have an ok port design that doesnt really flow that much compared to the new design Pro 1's, but they are budget and can support ok hp levels Get the 200cc version if you use them.

Other option is the JEG's brand heads...same as pro-filer castings but Jeg's name and lower price...actually about same as pro-filer in price. Pro-filer has a good port design and can make big power. Few bucks more you can have them cleaned up with some minor hand porting and custom valvetrain matched to your setup by Chad Speier.

Keep in mind match the springs to the cam you use. If you have aggressive hyd roller setups, most stock out the box springs are not enough to handle them. Look for 150lbs seat pressure and 360-400 open pressure at max lift. thats a good starting point for an agressive hyd roller. Other milder stuff can get away with 130-140lbs seat pressure, 350 open or so.
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Old Feb 1, 2012 | 05:04 PM
  #20  
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From: St.Louis, IL
Car: 1988 Camaro
Engine: 377
Transmission: TH350; Circle D 4200 converter
Axle/Gears: Ford 9"
Re: Need thoughts on engine

Originally Posted by Orr89RocZ
If you want a decent quality budget head, go with Dart SHP heads which are based on old pro 1's. They have an ok port design that doesnt really flow that much compared to the new design Pro 1's, but they are budget and can support ok hp levels Get the 200cc version if you use them.

Other option is the JEG's brand heads...same as pro-filer castings but Jeg's name and lower price...actually about same as pro-filer in price. Pro-filer has a good port design and can make big power. Few bucks more you can have them cleaned up with some minor hand porting and custom valvetrain matched to your setup by Chad Speier.

Keep in mind match the springs to the cam you use. If you have aggressive hyd roller setups, most stock out the box springs are not enough to handle them. Look for 150lbs seat pressure and 360-400 open pressure at max lift. thats a good starting point for an agressive hyd roller. Other milder stuff can get away with 130-140lbs seat pressure, 350 open or so.
Good advice. Forgot about those, actually. I'd go with the JEGS heads, personally.
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Old Feb 2, 2012 | 09:47 PM
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Re: Need thoughts on engine

Thanks to all for the input, I will keep you posted as I go with this thing. Thanks again
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