kimnach

quick question about a hole next to the mechanical fuel pump area on the block. this non-threaded hole sits on the bottom of the block. is there supposed to be some sort of press-fit plug? i meant to ask about this back in summer while i was assembling it, but was just reminded while looking under the car during the exhaust connecting pipe test fit.

NoEmissions84TA

iTrader: (1)

I believe that is a locating hole for the tooling that machines the block at the factory.
No plug needed.

kimnach

I never got to start the car last fall--a few small things remain to be done and I am going to learn to weld this winter to finish the exhaust install. I hope to get the car out on the road in the spring, and my wife hopes so too. with the younger son now driving and the two taking our vehicles we're often stranded at home:-)

http://kimnach.org/IROC-Z/Engine%20Rebuild%202017.html

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

There are 2 such holes: the other is covered up by the starter.



They are the first thing that's machined into the block, from which all other machine operations such as the crank bore, cam tunnels, cyl bores, head dowels, etc. are then measured. They're referred to as "locating holes" on the dwg.

kimnach

Well, here we are 7 June 2018 and I finally TRIED to start the engine. (I am not done with the exhuast: still waiting for the missing RHS hanger for the GMMG system that I purchased from Hawks.)

On the first attempt, it sputtered for a second and then stalled. Tried it again with the same result. So I took out the plug (definately had gasoline in chamber) and had my younger son put his thumb over it and verified that it was truly TDC and verified rotor/cap position on #1. Advanced distributor a couple of degrees and tried again. Fail.

Not trusting that he truly felt air come out, I later took off the valve cover and watched the rockers as I slowly turned the crank. Verified TDC, took of the dist cap, and saw that rotor was at #1. Wouldn't fire at all--not even a sputter. Checked the spark on #1 and it was there (though orange in color). Checked the fuel rail: 42-43lbs. Verified 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2 (clockwise) by testing resistance of each wire before connecting to plug and cap. No joy in starting, no matter how I rotated cap-- a bit advanced or retarded.

So, the next day I had my older son slowly crank the engine starter and I felt for the whoosh of air. I then brought the timing tape to 6deg advanced and aligned the cap/rotor. Wouldn't start....not even a hint of firing. When attempting to start it, the engine turns with difficulty as if the battery is dying. (The OPTIMA Yellow is fully charged and was purchased in the summer of '16.)

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result. I must be insane, because I would later use a TDC tool in the spark plug opening to veryify TDC.

I searched the web and on Hot Rod forums (I think) I came across a list of things to check, if the engine doesn't start. One was that the rockers may have been over-tightened and this would cause the cranking to seem as if the battery is dying and would also lead to a bit of lost compression (valve loose and sloppy?)

Also, I will get a noid light and test each injector harness, though I do not think it is likely to be the source of my problem.

Next thing I will test is the compression on each cylinder before taking off the valve covers and checking the lash, with which I was very careful during assembly this past summer.

One other thought I had (actually my older son had it) is that it may be the gasoline, which has been in the tank since November '16 when I last put the car away for the season. Perhaps I will drain the nearly full tank, replace the filter, and put a couple o'gallons of fresh petrol in.....

Any other thoughts? In the end, I may beg one of you fellow TPI thirdgen owners in the greater-Cleveland area for a bit of hands on help.


Well, I am off to Franciscan Univ. Stuebenville for my older son's freshman orientation and will not be back 'till saturday.

As always, thanks in advance!

-- update 9 june 2018 --

i removed all of the spark plugs and attached a sample of what #s 2, 3, 4, and 8 looked like (at least to some degree). all other plugs looked fine. I did veryfy the position of each wire as I removed it from the distributor and also verified that each was 50ohms/ft, as when I originally cut and crimped them. Plugs are gapped an 0.035"

BTW, i forgot to mention in my previous post that I did, in fact, set the TPS to 0.54V and did reset the new ICV. I also measured heads and block to battery return resistance: all 0.2ohms, so not a grounding issue.

-- update 13 june 2018 --
Growing tired of playing with the timing and hoping that it starts, i stopped at Autozone to grab a can of Starter Fluid. I figured that, if it starts, it narrows the issue down to bad gas (doubtful and hate to have my son be right:-)) bad injection/fuel delivery (electrical or mechanical). But, hey, timing is still a potential issue, right?

Wouldn't you know it: it fired up and ran for about 5-10seconds. granted I had to give it gas, but at least it ran after struggling to turn it over. I couldn't start it again though;-(

Here's something I noticed. The headers were extremely hot. Well at least exhaust tube #2. i didn't think to touch any of the other exhaust tubes. Could my timing be so far off as to cause combustion when the exhaust valves are opening? Could it even run if that were the case? Do headers, being so thin compared to manifolds and having so little thermal mass, heat up that quickly (<10seconds) if the engine is running properly or in a very rich condition?

As I stated before, I did loosen then reset the rockers' to zero lash and 1/4 turn pre-load this past weekend (before yesterday's attempts.) So i doubt that any valves are "floating open" and potentially hitting the piston. Stock-rated springs, 1.6:1 rocker, larger valves (1.6" and 1.94"), and plenty of clearance between face of piston and fully open valves.

I began to drain the car's tank last night but now need a couple more 5gal tanks to finish the job. I will then try new fuel, and replace the filter. (I know, the rail showed 43lbs, but the filter is about 5yrs old.) I will also try a different battery.

After the events of the evening, i began to google some more and the seeds of doubt have entered my grey matter.

did I install the connecting rods in the correct orientation? Difficult rotation could be a sign of binding, but I was able to move the rods latteraly a bit after installing them. I checked and rechecked before installing the pistons (heck, all of the valve reliefes are in the same direction.) I still wonder.

I did use plastigage and torqued everything to spec....did i miss or mess up something? The crank rotated easily before installing the pistons, and it got progressively more difficult as each one went in. Victory Engines gapped the 20-over rings so that I wouldn't have to. Did they gap it enough? (Pistons did go in pretty easily...but that's cold.) did I install the rings right side up? I'm sure I did, but... Is the difficulty in rotating/cranking due simply to all of the rings?

I am going to remove the plugs and use a beam-style torque wrench to check just how much it takes to turn the crank. I've read numbers varying anywhere from 50ftlbs to 100ftlbs is reasonable for anything from a 305 to a 454. When I measure it, will it be reasonable?

So many questions. So much frustration....but I'd do it again. And I told my wife that I may have to pull the engine again. She said NO! Another question: Who won the last time?

kimnach

It is alive!

After weeks of fiddling and not being able to start it up without starter fluid, it decided to cooperate and fire right up....just over a year ago that the engine was pulled! A couple of small things to take care of, and it will be back on the road in time to celebrate 30years of ownership. Charlie says it sounds sick!