What's the scoop on Proforms baffles? I'm getting a lot of pretty clean oil in the catch can after short drives. There's no way it can be excessive blow-by and not exhibit some other problems. There's not a puff of smoke out of the tail pipe. Car runs strong. There's 70,000 kilometers on the motor that was rebuilt back in 99' with very frequent oil changes in-between. I'm wondering if it's a baffling issue. I have Proform 141-131 Valve covers. I changed the heads and the Cam and never noticed anything out of the ordinary on the engines prior configuration. Didn't have a catch can before but the tailpipes were clear of smoke. I'd think if I was hauling in that amount of oil into the intake I'd be burning it and see it out the back.

 

Ordered an AFR PCV valve. The one I have is a parts store no name regular. The slightest bit of pressure from me blowing in it. As in just a light exhale off seats the valve fully. There's enough vacuum on this engine to practically pull me inside. It must just be hauling the oil in unrestricted as if there's no valve there at all

 

In a general way, ALL aftermarket VCs have this problem.

And it's not a "all aftermarket crap is ... crap" thing; rather, the result of 2 tradeoffs: they left clearance inside for larger (roller) rockers; and they figure that nobody is gonna be trying to run them on the street, only purely off-road where that doesn't matter.

Nothing in life is "free". You give up something to get some other thing. In this case, looks like you just discovered the tradeoff involved with those particular VCs.

 

Haha. Ain't that the truth. Were the factory Baffles really that much better? Is there a 3rd party one that you'd recommend that would fit the proform covers?

 

Hard to say; but AT LEAST, they thought about it. BEFORE they put em on motors. Taking things like ... goop in wherever ... into account. Because they ran them for LOTS of miles to see what they did, before they committed to including them on NEW cars at the time.

Not really. All of em, to a greater or lesser extent, are victim to the same set of tradeoffs, and ALL of em suffer from the ill effects of whatever they traded off in favor of whatever benefits they provide, which are often very valuable. (or not) You just gotta pay attention and pick & chooooze what fits your application. YOU gotta figure out what matters to YOU. Much as I might like to, I can't look inside your head / wallet / driveway / spouse / whatever, and make that call FOR you. Tradeoffs are EVERYWHERE in life, this one is no different.

 

I know there a physics like thermodynamics and fluid dynamics at play with this stuff. Something changes when I added 6 feet to the PCV line to get it to the catch can and back. Then the catch can itself is altering it as well. Likely a Venturi effect going from a 3/8 hose to a chamber and back. Went for a 30 minute run and the Can was full. Removed it all, went back to stock, went for another run and it was fine. AFR stayed at 14.7 the entire time. No smoke out the tail pipe, no strange smells. Took the intake off and the TB and plenum is bone dry. One of life's mysteries I guess. The vacuum with the can was 14 to 15 IN hg. Without it's 18 IN hg

 

Do you have any pictures of the inside of the valve cover and baffle?
I run the same valve covers I think. Proform GM licensed centre bolt style.



I also run a Moroso catch can located on the rad support.
At most I get an ounce or so of milkshake after hours of run time. WOT. Cruise. Idle. And this is with a thoroughly worn out 355. Carbed too.

Baffles look to be top shelf. Not like some of the aforementioned crap that out there.




FWIW, the crankcase ventilation path is: Passenger side valve cover breather, drivers side PCV valve (which finding the correct one is largely hit and miss with my cam spec and resulting engine vacuum), 3/8" hose to catch can, catch can, return hose to intake manifold port at carb base.
Seems to work OK. Even with the excessive blow-by this tired old lump had.

 

My cover is identical to yours. Thanks for posting. I was trying to remember what the baffle looked like. Literally full can of oil. And it looked like fairly clean oil. Could be the cheap Fram PCV. Who knows. It seems very weak. I have a Delco and AFR one on the way. It ran great though when it was all hooked up back to stock. I figured if I was hauling that much oil into the plenum, it would have been drenched. Bone dry

 

Your PCV valve choice is dictated by, in part, the idle vacuum.
I've a list of old school P/N's from a few muscle cars from the 60's/70's that dealt with low vacuum issues. The same could be applied to about any vacuum I would think.

If you pull the oil cap and PCV valve out of your covers, is there anything being pushed out? Mine was a mess. Like a chimney.

Is your PCV circuitry similar to mine?

 

I have used the 2002 5.3/6.0L style fixed orifice PCV "valve" for years.

 

I'm thinking the 3/8 hose at almost 6 feet total length in and out of the can is speeding up the airflow to much and acting like a Venturi. Going to try 1/2 inch and see if that will slow it down a bit.

 

I can't see the size of the hose being the issue although I've been wrong before.
What's your PCV setup like. Breathers? PCV valve location?

 

It's the stock setup. The small hose acts like a restriction. It's like putting your finger over the end of the garden hose. That catch can setup changes the entire dynamic of the PCV system. It's the only thing I can think of because when it's plugged in the direct stock way it's running fine. If I was actually pulling that amount of oil out through the PCV it would flood the engine out.

 

Fair enough.
I find it strange though considering I think our setups are more or less the same. Although I don't' have those kind of vacuum levels as you've described. 10" at idle. IIRC, somewhere between 15 and 20 at light highway cruise.
One thing you mentioned was the difference with and without the catch can, with regards to vacuum. I've tested with and without the PCV valve in place and have seen an 1" or so gain. But 3" seems extreme.
Then again, the engine combinations are different so that may play into it.
Curious as to what to your final result will be.

 

I'll definitely update the thread when I figure it out.

 

@skinny z after changing to 1/2" lines, same length and same drive route I had 1/2 ounce of oil in the can. With the 3/8" hose I had 4 full ounces. Almost a full catch can. I'm still using the el-cheapo PCV. I'll see what happens when I change it. Either way that's massive change. Still to much oil but it's in the right direction

 

Seems odd but then again you looked to have scienced it out.
I'm not sure how the valve itself will play out in your application although I did find a very wide variety in what's out there. Because of my low vacuum, I looked to the muscle car era to see what was on those engines. Interestingly, there was also some crossover into the smog engines of the 70's/80's.




I also learned how the valve actually operates. While that may be old news to you, it got me to thinking further into how the system works as a whole.
It also lends some cred to the adjustable valves that are available.

 

I have the FB 184...I think. Fram. I think it's to weak. At wide open throttle with lots of oil splash I'm thinking it may be offsetting way to easy but I don't know. I'll see what happens when that AFR valve gets here.

 

Just wanted to update. I went with one of those fancy Wagner adjustable PCV valves and the problem seems to have been solved. Before I had 4 to 5 oz of oil in the catch can after 25 minutes of driving. Now I get basically a smear of oil. One thing they mention is to make sure there's at least 3/8 inch gap above the baffle. I had less then that. Valve comes with rubber shims to raise it.

 

Nice update! That valve is also on my hit list (I may have mentioned that).
Would you think it's to say it's a reasonable conclusion that you were running a valve with wrong spec? There are many levels of operation that the valve goes through, I would imagine that any one of them being off would mess things up.
In the same vein, have you noticed a change in idle vacuum? After all, a PCV valve is just a metered vacuum leak. More or less.

 

Does anybody make a PCV valve that has a clear plastic case . So you could observe the action of the internal pindle valve and see if oil is being sucked in.
Old 60's era Ford and Chrysler PCV valves were steel case and screwed together. You could take them apart for cleaning and service.
Allows teeeking the action and flow in various modes.

 

For sure it was the wrong spec. It also helped the high idle. Much more stable

 

None that I'm aware of although that is an interesting idea.