Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

big cam, with vortec heads could reach 400 crank HP I would think. LT1's can do it on stock heads with the right cam. There are cammed LT1s making those kinds of numbers easily. Some LT1's have made up to 360rwhp with the right cam, cai, and exhaust on stock heads (valve springs done ofcourse)

But that begs the question, how much are you willing to spend to upgrade it. At what point do you begin spending more money than you would have if you swapped to a 350, or if you swapped to a Gen3 motor.

If your goal is to build the ultimate 305 with the most power possible money no object then absolutely yes it can be done. And it could probably be done with a TBI type intake.

freaky

how big a cam tho would it take ? would it be street drivable ? i'm going turbo myself in a couple months . to me thats the easiest route , something i know an know will work

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

You can make 400-RWHP with a turbo on your 305 in your sleep. Naturally aspirated though, it is really asking a lot from a small bore engine that is relegated to a small intake valve. The cubic inch displacement was never the problem with these motors, it is how GM obtained the cubic inch displacement that gives it its' naturally aspirated limitation (small bore). Turbo is an entirely different story...

freaky

i'm buying a turbo next month i'm putting the lt1 cam in her then i'm getting the turbo . i'm thing a t70 with a .84 ar exhaust . any thoughts street lethal ?
i just got the ebl flash i'm getting the bugs out first n learn to tune then it's turbo bound .lol

Street Lethal

iTrader: (16)

If you go with that turbo, here is one from another member, $150.00 shipped...

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/sout...ml#post5181642

Your already ahead of the game with the EBL, as rather than waste time burning chips, Bob simplified everything with his own version of GM code and firmware. The cam is a great choice for the street as well as that turbo, but put a little extra work in whichever heads you choose to go with as that is where your real gains will come from...

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

You can throw the biggest cam made into a 305, but it won't do a damn thing unless the engines airflow demand requires it. 305's don't huff much air N/A so you'd be wasting your time with a huge cam and really high flow heads.

Sojer

Can I reuse my stock rockers,pushrods, and flat top lifters with my 113 heads on my 305 I hate when ppl don't give answers but opinions

midias

You cannot reuse flat tappet lifters if you change the cam. If you are using all stock stuff you can reuse the rest

fly89gta

iTrader: (1)

aaaaaaand theeeeeeen

I really hate to feed the trolls but Jesus H Christ on a pogo stick....can you keep your story or wacky claims straight please?

Stock LO3 heads aren't supporting 400hp at the wheels N/A...period. But then again if a carb is on it.......

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

This isn't the engine tech section for those types of questions, but lifters are a no no for re-using. Only roller lifters can be re-used. As far as rockers and pushrods, yes they can be re-used. I would highly recommend new stiffer valve springs though if you are camming it.

kmcn47

i'm sorry but even an optimist/305 lover like myself cant pretend to see numbers around 400 from any of that, i mean it just doesn't translate to a substantial enough increase in hp on itself

Sojer

Its the cam in it its jst for now to get it back running and I will upgrade to lt4 springs just for a 1 or 2k at most than a full rebuild I need my car back the fuel injectors went out after the race so I haven't dove it sents that day

big hammer

flat top lifters are good for high compresion. i like hydraulic pistons ease of maintenance. it's nice to not have to adjust your pistons every year.

crazy3rdgen

iTrader: (1)

What a frigin air head. lmao

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

thebuffalo

"machine the hell out of stock heads" means that the heads are no longer stock.
And 400hp at the wheels N/A is possible. I will still stick with this, and thinking that it is not possible is borderline ignorant.

I feel like people find one thing that doesnt add up and try to use it to prove a point but really, you didn't read enough or you're just blowing out hot air.

If a i4 honda motor can get 400hp N/a, Which I HAVE seen it do ON the dyno. Then there is NO way a 305 can't do it.

What doesn't translate, a stock 305 gets about 170 on a good day. So.. you take those garbage swirl port heads, and machine them until they are wide open. This is about.. 30-40 hp RIGHT THERE. Then you take off that garbage throttle body and remove all those sensors that dont do anything and rip the ecu out from under your dash, thats another 15 man points. Get a new HEI distributor and a decent ignition box. New roller cam, lifters , rockers. Probably sitting at about 300 at this point with alot better RPM range and alot less internal friction. Since you got all that fuel running in now its time for headers, BAM everything just started working 10 times better, so the headers probably give you another 30-40, dont forget to remove the EGR and cat if you live in a emissions free area like me. Get a good muffler for some backpressure. Timing, switch from chain to gear to gear, thats about 20hp. So now carb and intake manifold. Hmm I'm thinking this is getting close to 400hp right out the crank but Idk... its just statistics.

And i'm just a amateur, so if I could come up with this... imagine what a professional could do?

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

LOL, priceless!

You are very much an amatuer, but most of us already knew that. Headers in no way, shape, or form are adding anywhere near 30-40 HP on a 305. A timing gear swap over a chain is also not adding 20 HP....or even 5 HP for that matter. It sounds like you opened up a jegs catalog and got your HP facts right out of the descriptions. I'll say it again....give it a shot on your quest for your 400 HP 305 and let us know how it goes. Until then, stop trying to preach to the guys that know better.

And that N/A 400 HP honda engine probably ran on race gas, had 14:1 compression, ITB's, the works. Making 400HP N/A on a honda engine is next to impossible as well.

thebuffalo

headers may not add horsepower themselves but they make your engine run better because the AIR ( motor = air pump ) that your pushing through runs out better, which thus gives you less stress on the motor, gaining hp... Jesus, is this a basic engine class here or what? And a gear to gear swap doesn't give horsepower.. your right, it free's up wasted horsepower and transfers it 10 times better. I don't see why people on a 3rdgen forum hate 3rdgen motors so much. I'm not gunna build a 305, and im not on a quest for it. I'm just telling you that 400hp N/a is VERY EASILY obtainable on a 305. any more than that is tough but that is easy. To get horsepower on a motor all you're doing is pushing more air, faster, and more efficiently. I'm an amateur and I know these things...

400hp N/A honda motor had 4 dirtbike carbs, not sure the size. and it had like 13.5:1 so you're close.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Buffalo, your post is full of fail and mis-information.

Dont' make me animate that 305 saga picture.

midias

The problem with the 305 is not the size it is the bore. Chances are the Honda heads with 4 valves have a much higher flow potential than any 305 heads every will because of valve size. Also the Honda engine can probably spin 2xRPM then the 305 will ever spin on its best day. I have seen a fair amount of streetable Hondas turning 10k RPMs.

If the 305 had a bore big enough to accept some decent sized valves it could make 400whp no problem.

thebuffalo

You may say it's full of fail, but thats cause I'm right and 400hp is achievable, what i said may only be around 330-350 but thats close and it wouldnt be hard to get the rest. no mis-information either. all legit.

Fact: if you support a 305, people will get mad and rage and even go against what is known to try to prove a point.

See, someone knows a thing or two about how to go fast. I've heard of 305's doing 9,000 rpm's but I know s2000's are capable of 11,000

insomniac

iTrader: (3)

that takes the cake, man i wish that was true my L98 would be pushing 500 if that was the case

thebuffalo

no, it wouldnt. it would be pushing like 350 cause L98's have low stock hp too.


I'm going to look up the article of the 305 N/A that was on a circle track pushing like 500 just to end this debate.

insomniac

iTrader: (3)

i wasnt serious

1985WS6TA

If you are seriously running stock springs on anything other than the stock cam, you are ****ing dumb. Get springs on that damn motor and run 1.6 rocker.

thebuffalo

I say all new heads...

85 Frankenstein

This is the funniest thread I have ever read

1985WS6TA

How about anything other than a 305....
I'm all for being different but there's just no point in building a 305 99% of the time.

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

So you said:

Stock 170hp

+ 30-40hp from ported stock iron heads
+ 15hp for a carb swap (I think thats what you meant, you cant just
"rip the Tb and ECU out" to gain HP )
+ 75hp for a new HEI and MSD box, cam and rockers (already roller cam so no gain there, and you probably going to INCREASE friction with the larger cam BTW, thats negligable though)
+30-40 for headers
+5 hp for no cat which is generous (EGR is disabled at WOT so no gain there)
+20 hp for swapping a timing chain to gear drive (your dreaming here)

so your at 365HP(which is laughable because the numbers your throwing out are WAY high on average), and the last 35hp from an intake (and carb again?) swap.

Then you take into account the divide all catalog advertized HP gains by 2 and you get real world, soooo your sitting at 285 HP, give it a little fudge factor of 15hp and ok your at 300 crank HP.

Your right, you are an amateur... who's reading a jegs catalog and adding up the "+XXXhp" figures. And no, simple addition is NOT statisitcs, it's first grade math.

thebuffalo

i actually didn't get a jegs catalog(i prefer summit anyways), i was just guestimating.

calamitascamaro

iTrader: (5)

Buffalo, you're saying you can make an N/A 305 produce 400hp wheel? As in somewhere around 500hp crank? as in somewhere in the ballpark of 1.6hp per cubic inch? Do you work for Ferrari building F1 motors? If not, you should.
Oh, one more thing. If you're saying yes to any of the questions I said above, you're lying.

thebuffalo

Maybe honda mechanics should too, s2000's have even better hp per cubic inch stock. (240hp / 122 cubic inches)
and 400 out of the crank of a 305 would be 1.311475409836066hp per cubic inch

read first, talk later.

calamitascamaro

iTrader: (5)

You definitely said 400 wheel power. And the H22 makes 230 crank not the 2 liter. And if we're talking wheel, then the s2k puts down about 200hp on a good day, you do the hp per liter math on it.
Do your homework kid.
Edit, the anticipation is killing me. Its 1.56hp per ci.

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

read first talk later?

thebuffalo

I said 400 to the wheels is possible, not that I can do it. I said I can do 400 out of the crank.

read first, then talk.


still producing 1.5+ hp per cubic inch, so maybe they should be ferrari mechanics?

I feel like you guys are off topic not providing any legit statements as to a 305 being slow and simply just trashing to bash me, as to when I'm saying you can get 400hp+ out of the crank.

midias

Honda does not need to work for ferrari. They already build awesome race engine that get well over 3whp per cube between F1 and moto GP. They also have factory engines that get over 2.5whp per cube.

Example the CBR1000 makes about 165whp on a dyno and is only 61 cubes.

calamitascamaro

iTrader: (5)

We're not providing legit statements? Please post up an N/A L03 motor, producing 330hp wheel. I lowered the standard for ya to make it easier.

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

buff - you EXPLICTLY claimed that 400RWHP is possible, then threw some numbers out of a catalog and are expecting to not get called out? takes you lumps, move on, and stop spreading false info/claims

BlueZee28

iTrader: (30)

This is good for many laughs.

+1

Carry on.

calamitascamaro

iTrader: (5)

BlueZee28

iTrader: (30)

I think I'm going to buy an Iron Duke Camaro and mod it to get 300rwhp.

calamitascamaro

iTrader: (5)

And on that note, I'm gonna go stare at my motor on its stand, and wave my magic wand and hope for 2hp per cubic inch. Later!

sailtexas186548

iTrader: (2)

just get a new HEI for your 6.0 you'll gain 57rwhp!

83TransAmDayton

Heres some facts

http://www.hioutput.com/tech/343hp/343hp.html

http://www.hioutput.com/tech/400hp/400hp.html

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/eng...s/viewall.html

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

300rwhp might be out of line, but you could get about 330 crank HP with the SuperDuty 4 parts and a 3.3L stroker kit. GM built one from off the shelf Superduty parts. Peak power was at about 7800rpm though. Enough to make some of the honda boys begin to drool. This was in 1982.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

The popular hotrodding article doesn't load.

I'm willing to bet that ALL of those engines were dynoed without spinning their own water pump, alternator, nor did they have a full exhaust back to the tail pipes when dynoed.

Thats the same as the old SAE Gross numbers as compared to the SAE Net numbers.

calamitascamaro

iTrader: (5)

The popular hotrodding article is accurate.
edit: nevermind, i opened the wrong article the first time.

calamitascamaro

iTrader: (5)

They show the 3oh5 with nothing attached in the article, so you are absolutely correct.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Yeah, take a look at those pics. The engine isn't spinning its own alternator or water pump, and its essentially dumping at the headers.

Put the accessories back on and come talk about the 400hp 305.

Do you see it spinning its own accessories in the pic below? Nope. Come back with one that is.

calamitascamaro

iTrader: (5)

Im on your side lol. Read post above yours.