Swt SS

Here is my Issue, I brought a WC '89 camaroZ28 iroc transmission from a guy who was selling it. I don't know what vin # were of the camaro, but I had a tranny shop check out the tranny for me to insure all the gears and such were good before putting it into my car. something you need to know about my car, it is a '88 chevy monte carlo SS. I am using the stock (merchanical speedo cable) instead of the stock camaro one. the problem i am having is the I can't remember the color of the drive gear in the tranny, to select the proper driven gear for the speedo cable. I currently have a REd (21 tooth) in the speedo cable, but my speedometer is off by approx. 10-15 MPH with this setup. I am trying to find a way to figure out how to find out what drive gear I have on the tranny shaft, to match the cable gear. I have 3.73 posi gears, with 26" tall tires...any help or info greatly appreciated...

L695speed

Red should be correct, your driven gear might be wrong. It should be a 7 tooth blue driven gear. I had a T5 in my 84 TA with 3.73s speedo was dead on with a red gear 21 tooth gear. Either that or your speedo is not geared right on the speedo itself.

Swt SS

is there anyway to check and see which color the driven gear is, since my tranny is installed in the car? can I take off the shifter base and see it? is the only way to see the driven gear is by removing the tranny and removing the rear housing to get to the shaft where the driven gear is? that would be alot to work for me to do, removing the tranny's rear housing section. tks

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

Remove the speedo cable. The gear should be sticking out of the gear housing a bit. Or if you'd like a better look, remove the single bolt and pull the gear housing/gear from the trans. With the gear housing removed, you should also be able to see the drive gear.

JamesC

Swt SS

James C, ok I removed the speedo cable and the bullet. I currently have a RED (21) tooth gear that goes into the bullet for the mechanical speedo for my car. so, if I understand correctly that is the drive gear? and I have a RED gear inside the t5 tranny on the shaft. which I believe is called the driven gear?...tks for all your help...

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

You have drive and driven gears reversed.

JamesC

sleeper-z

hi, im just tuning in, but i was wondering if i could take a w/c T5 out of a late 80's s10 and put it in my 85 camaro 2.8l. its got the stock 5 speed auto tranny with the lockup. i've heard that it may not be possible due to "a specially made case because of the torsion bar that goes from the tranny to the rearend" any ideas?

iroc_zz

It would not fit with out modifications. The tailhousing is different. The shifter location is all the way to the front on the S10, it does not have the torque arm mounts, and late 80's S10 went to a electric speedo.

sleeper-z

also i was wondering if i would have to re-program the computer to ensure everything stays running correctly.

sleeper-z

what would be a good 5 speed tranny to stick in it do you know?

Twentyone

I changed trannys 84 stock T5(3.73RE) to a 89 T5 tranny and am going nuts trying to figure why speedo is wrong, according to what I`ve read the 89s have a larger more teeth(8T) drive gear and I changed driven gear to a black(23T) from a red(21T) and it should have been right-No,it was still off 10mph so I am now have the largest driven gear I can use 25 tooth(orange) and it`s close but still not perfect.What is going on?The black gear(23T) should have been correct.Am I going crazy or what?

sleeper-z

wrong tire size maybe? i have 235/55 15s on the back of mine and im off by 3-7 mph, depending on the speed im going.

Twentyone

Stock tires 215/65R-15s

L695speed

A T5 is a T5. I would just swap out the drive gear for a blue 7 tooth one, and use the red 21 tooth driven, that should be correct for stock 26 inch tires and a 3.73 rear. Also if it really doesn't matter to you then do the math in your head and mentally mark the speedo so that its correct. I had a mercury that was off bad and it got worse the faster you went. 65 was 72 mph in reality on that thing and it got worse as it went on. I think 80 was 110......but seeing what the car was I didn't care and just mentally marked it.

Twentyone

Well now the speedo stopped working all together-Pulled driven gear and its totaled-looks like internals are not compatable with the 84s drive system-gear is all chewed up-I think the problem is that I tried using my 84 gear drive on the replacement 89 tranny-The newer tranny did not come with a drive so I used mine-I need a later model drive so that it is compatible with the larger dia driven gears-speedo was working fine for last 50 miles-You`d think that the larger dia driven gears would`nt even fit into the older drives but they do?

L695speed

Did your speedo cable seize up? A cable 25 years old breaking or seizing can cause problems. I'd replace that. Try a new red 21 tooth gear and go at it again. The gears I think are like 5 bucks each.

EDIT: I missed a small part of that. Sorry. While what I stated above might work, heres a thought....

I thought the later cars had VSS. If the rotor gear for the VSS is still on it, it likely won't work right. I don't recall seeing you saying anything about that. My resealed T5 (was done in the early 90s, had a red 21 tooth driven, and a blue 7 tooth drive. Because there was no VSS on that car it didn't have anything there but the plastic gears. I know on the T56 I'm converting to mechanical, there is a VSS on it, but Alloy (who converts them) said he does it in such a way so you can leave it on and put the gear behind it. With the T5 its likely you'll have to pull the VSS and replace it with the plastic gear.

Twentyone

No the driven gear got chewed up-I evidently have to use the smaller diameter driven gears-The larger ones are too tight when placing them in tranny.That being what it is,I`m back to square one-I reinstalled the red 21T gear and speedo works again but is 15mph too fast-The only thing I can do is remove blue drive gear(7T) from my old tranny and replace the red one(9T) in tranny now.That will give me the original combo (red driven 21T and blue drive 7T) I had in old tranny and that is a factory match.

19camaro83

Can a NWC be converted to WC fairly easily? Could you rebuild a NWC T5 with a WC master rebuild kit?

Badass355ciz28

iTrader: (17)

its been asked before.suggest a search please

mooch1

a wc is the better transmission,,but people make such a fuss about wc and nwc,,these transmissions either wc or nwc are not tough transmissions...both can break if pushed too hard or they can both last a lifetime if not abused...the small difference in power rating between both is not worth the the extra trouble of getting a wc ...

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

To answer the question, no, because there are a lot of parts that are different that do not come in the rebuild kit.

19camaro83

The differences I'm seeing is the different bearings and synchro rings, which both come in a rebuild kit. What else am I missing?

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

I have rebuilt both. The non-WC does not use roller bearings between the gears and the mainshaft... which means either the gears or the mainshaft are different. There are probably a few other differences as well. You can pick up a used WC trans cheaply enough that it is a much better deal than trying to 'convert' a NWC trans.

As others have said, although WC is preferable, if you plan to beat on it, either one will be short-lived. If you drive it in a non-abusive manner, it doesn't make a huge difference.

19camaro83

Thanks for the info. Sounds like I'm sticking to NWC.

Richie_83Z28

would you be able to tell me if the bellhousing for the mechanical clutch from my 1983 non world class t5 would work on the 1989 t5 word class trans i just bought?

memphis1967

iTrader: (1)

it will bolt up, but you won't be able to use a hydraulic slave cylinder with it, it doesn't have the mounting points. You'll need to go with a mechanical clutch, a hydro ToB, or a different bell housing.
i think

Richie_83Z28

would you be able to tell me if the mechanical clutch bellhousing off an 83 t5 will work on the 89 trans?

mooch1

yes.it will bolt up.
but it will be a mechanical driven clutch,

Richie_83Z28

Awesome i didnt plan on going hydraulic clutch just replacing the tranny. i was doing some research and discovered the face of the tranny where it mounts to the bellhousing from the 83 to 87 was different from the newer model i was just unsure if it would still work. thanks for the info

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

Yeah the only thing that's different at all on the face of the older trannys is the countergear bearing cap, which doesn't interfere with anything. The bolt pattern, bearing retainer diameter, input shaft spline count, and mounting angle are all the same on the older and newer ones. The only time any of that changes is if it's a V6 trans instead of a V8 one.

Richie_83Z28

Ok thanks thats good to know. I know what you mean about the countershaft bearing race being different, because the non wc has flat rollerbearings where as the wc countershaft rides on tapered rollerbearings and has a cast shell. but what i meant was the structure of the front face. the general shape of it, the top pic is an 83 non wc the bottom pic is a 85 wc. thats all that was confusing me lol

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

Oh ok, I gotcha now. Yeah, looking at the pics I see what you mean about them looking a bit different, but as far as the bolt hole spacing and such, it's the same on both. In fact, even the V6 ones have the same bolt pattern, but they have a 14 spline input shaft instead of 26 spline, and the V6 input shaft is about 1/2 inch longer. Lots of guys have gotten a special clutch disc that's 14 spine-10.5 diameter, and cut off that extra 1/2 inch on the input and used the V6 trans behind a V8 motor. Not recommended though because the V6 T5's have different ratios that are pretty lousy when mated up with a V8!

91maroRS91

i want to replace the oil in my trans its a w/c t5 what should i put in it

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

ATF

You can use regular or synthetic, but it must be ATF and not gear oil.

iroc_zz

I have heard of people using synchro mesh and getting an improved shift quality.

Jupiter

iTrader: (1)

Guys i may have access to a 92 wc t5. My old 4 speed t-10 is tired and gas is
not cheap. I have an older 350 block '2 piece rear main seal' in the car and am
wondering if this tranny/clutch/flywheel will bolt right up. I know i will need to
go with a stronger tranny in the long run but am looking at this short term
solution. My z-bar is about to crap out so today i picked up some hydraulic
pedals 'from the same 92 t5 camaro' and planning on converting to hydraulic
clutch pedals and hydraulic throw out bearing in the next couple of weeks. If this
tranny/clutch/flywheel will bolt right up then i need to know so i get the
right throw out bearing rather then a bearing for my 4 speed.

I have a 700r tranny mount and torquer arm spare parts, will they fit the t5?
I also have a 1le drive shaft, will that fit?

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

You'll need a bellhousing too, I am thinking. The tranny mount will work, but the torque arm mount and bushing won't. The T5 setups that I have seen have hydraulic clutch actuation, but use a standard throwout bearing. I believe the hydraulic throwout bearing takes the place of a slave cylinder and clutch fork. I am not sure when that was introduced.

JamesC

iTrader: (5)

The 1LE shaft will fit both the 700R4 and the T-5.

JamesC

Jupiter

iTrader: (1)

Yep the bell housing is included with the tranny. So i will need to get the arm
mount and a new bushing. Ok i can do that. Indeed these setups use a
slave cylinder HOWEVER, one thing i have learned is that the hydraulic bearing
is a much more efficient and cleaner setup. This will get rid of the fork, GREAT.
Thanks James

58mark

iTrader: (3)

I gather from this thread that my WCT5 has a .75 5th gear on it. (V6 car)

Is it possible to replace just that gear with a deeper overdrive gear? I'd would love to get a lower RPM on the highway

jpossibul

Thanks so much for taking the time to post all that information!!

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

I'm not 100% sure on this, but I THINK both the drive and driven gears for 5th are removeable from the mainshaft and countershaft. If that's the case, you could get both gears from a V8 T5 and put them in yours. If you can do that, you could have the better overdrive gears. In fact, if you grabbed them from the RS (L03) V8 T5, that'd give you a .63 5th gear ratio if I remember correctly.

58mark

iTrader: (3)

sounds great, but I just thought of something.. the number of splines on a V6 car is different. does that mean I can't use a gear from V8 car?

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

Obviously, as most of us know, the V6 input shaft is only 14 spline, while the V8 input is 26. But once again, while I'm not 100% sure, I'm willing to bet the spines on the mainshaft and countershaft are more than likely the same on both. You might want to check with somebody who deals with a lot of T5 rebuilds to be sure. I have a feeling they'll end up being the same, but it wouldn't hurt to ask an expert before going too far!

58mark

iTrader: (3)

thanks. now that I know it's not a STUPID question, I'll go by my trusted transmission shop and see what they say


If I can go from .75 to .61 on the highway, the cost of the upgrade would pay for itself in no time as much highway driving that I do. I could get 5 mpg better!

ternandes

iTrader: (7)

output splines on the T5 mainshaft are the same for V6 and V8. Driveshafts are the same. Therefore, I would expect that the 5th speed gears, which are outside the main case in the tail housing, would be able to be swapped over. Ask Bob Hanlon at Hanlon motorsports... he can tell you for sure.

iroc_zz

Yes, the V6 and V8 5th gears do interchange. The part numbers for the .63 5th gear set for the GM world class are 1352-080-051 for the countershaft 5th and 1352-070-032 for the mainshaft gear. The mainshaft 5th is getting hard to find new but the countershaft 5th is still available new.

58mark

iTrader: (3)

Great information thank you very much

58mark

iTrader: (3)

Could I ask for a clarification? I appreciate the parts numbers, but when I go to look them up, I get confused. The part number for the countershaft ending in 51 has 51 teeth, and ut just says ford/gm. The one ending in 052 has 55 teeth. And it says 88-92 camaro v8

So I for sure want the one with fewer teeth? My v6 on has 53 teeth by the way.

I'm assuming this is going to be a worthy upgrade, but you tell me. Will it be than noticeable on the highway if I go from a .75 5th to a .63?

http://cobratransmission.com/index.p...ge=en&page=142

http://www.allstategear.com/T5.htm

iroc_zz

Putting the V8 5th gear set on your V6 transmission isn't going to give you the same ratio that the V8 had.
Here is where it gets a little confusing. Hopefully this chart will clear it up a little.

V6 trans w/stock 5th gear = .76
V8 trans w/stock 5th gear = .63 or .73
V6 trans w/V8 .63 gear set = .86
V6 trans w/V8 .73 gear set = .99
V8 trans w/V6 .76 gear set = .56

The problem is the tooth counts on the input and counter shaft 4th gear are different between the V6 and the V8 so it messes with the final drive ratio.