I know I have leaky injectors, but seeing this is a daily driver and it runs great when it is running, and the fact I can't afford new ones right now, I'm living with it. But I was told this is killing the life of my motor and now am worried The car starts first turn in the am, then when it sits for a couple hours or more, takes about 5 turns then fires right up. I was told was the gas leaking down the clyinders, it not good, then when i start it, its killing the insides of the clyinder walls and will give me problems if i don't fix it, will it? And how much is this killing my motor. I change the oil every 2500 miles just to be safe, also I have leaky valve seals, doesn't always smoke, just sometimes. When I start it, should I have the peddle to the floor for (clear flood mood) until it starts, I don't usuaully do that, Any help would be great Thanks

 

yes it is bad, gas dilutes oil. so for a moment, there is gas, instead of oil, coating your cylinder walls and piston rings. this is not a good thing. even if you do change the oil, its not gonna stop the cylinder walls from getting the gas on them.

 

Is there anything I can do to help? And how much damage is this doing? Should each time i start it, do the clear flood mood? Thanks

 

most people actually can't afford new injectors, but that shouldn't be much of a problem to fix....go the yards, find urself some 2.8 injectors (if u have a 2.8, 3.1 for 3.1 etc) send those off to cruizin performance (do a search, i know there out there) they'll bench flow them, and having them flowing like new....then install the "new" injectors, and hassle will be solved, at a huge discount in price.

 

I do suggest using clear flood mode. I have the same problem. IMO, there shouldn't be a lot of damage from the leaking injectors. Even if there is gas on the cylinder walls, it won't be everywhere; your injectors are dripping while the engine is off, they are not spraying. You should be okay if you change your oil enough.

 

Actually, wait- I didn't see any confirmation that there IS gas in the oil. How does the dipstick smell? Before you go tearing anything apart, buy/borrow/rent/steal a fuel pressure gauge - get the one meant for our motors, which runs about $40 and has a high pressure fitting/hose on it. Don't get the $12 one meant for carbureted motors.

Engine off, engine COLD (no fires!), find the schraeder valve at the back of the fuel rail (between the top of the plenum and the distributor). Attach the pressure gauge to it. Turn the key in the car from "off" to "on" but Don't crank the engine. Just turn the key so all the lights on the dash come on. Check the fuel pressure on the gauge and let us know what it is.

Cruzin's website is http://www.cruzinperformance.com , Rich is a great guy and he charges a ridiculously low price for such a great service. But put the gauge on first before you go tearing apart the motor!

 

Yes, this is a good INITIAL test, but... the pressure also has to hold. I've asked this before, but there was no answer: what should the pressure vs time relation be? Somewhere there is a thread with a post of mine with results of my car pressure vs time. Actually, I have an idea. Someone with known good injectors should see what the pressure drop is over an hour or so and let us know, and also let us know what the outside temp is (with a cold engine).

edit: Don't forget to release the fuel system pressure before attaching the gauge. Use a screwdriver to push the pin in while covering the whole valve with a rag.

 

Actually I was hoping he'd come back and say "the pressure was XX and held", my bad.

But the pressure should hold for a while. Drop should be ver-r-r-y slow, and you shouldn't even see the needle move for a while.

 

I don't have a guage as of right now, but yes if u take the dipstick out it does smell like gas or if you take out the plug where you put oil in it does. The oil is clean when I change it, but you can smell a little gas. I'm just affraid I am killing my 2.8, and the thing runs great other then this Thanks

 

how difficult are injectors to take off? Whole intake have to come off? Just wondering what's involved...

 

Well, I just checked my oil and it does smell like gas. Guess I'm going to look from some junkyard injectors to send for cleaning. Now I'm blaming the leaking injectors for the hard hot start, improper lubrication, and I suspect it for the backfire.

 

You should first double check to make sure what injectors are leakying, maybe just a couple I haven't checked on mine yet though.

 

How can you determine WHICH injectors are leaking?

 

this is an assumption, maybe incorrect, but an assumption none-the-less....giving our batch fire injection system, it's not that one injector should (important factor...SHOULD!!!) be working harder tahn any other, i guess restrictions in the injectors themselves would cause them to work harder than the others however i'd almost doubt that. I would go under the impression that all the injectors are wearing, if they haven't gotten to the point of replacement they're mostlikly going to be approaching it shortly, and as a result, you might as well do the job one time and one time only. If youvé already got the upper intake off, get that extra set of injectors (shouldn't cost you much at a yard) and then have them cleaned and flowed by cruizin, and re-install the "new" clean injectors into the block...should restore the flow to all your cylinders, and will keep you from digging into the motor again, fixing a problem which could have been prevented before there was a problem.

 

You can check which injectors are leaking by removing the fuel rail as a whole and pressurising the system (SAFELY). Then you should see one, some, or all leaking. However, as 85f-bird says, do them all. There's no point in having injectors at different states of wear/dirtiness in there even if only one of them is leaking... unless of course, you are really strapped for cash.

 

Yeah, they can be out of any 2.8 or 3.1 correct? I know there are two different kinds of injectors for my 88 2.8. Not sure which one it has, one is a 3 prong connecter, the other is a 2 prong connecter. How much could this kill my gas milage? I get crap it seems for gas milage, but it can't be running bad because it just passed inspection recently, emissions that is, passed with flying colors. Thanks guys

 

think that 2.8L's used 13 lb injectors, while the 3.1L got 15's....i'm not 100% on that, and i'm sure someone else will either confirm or deny it...i don't know how much of a deal 3.1L injectors will do, (as far as running rich) it's not that big of a change, and depending on engine modifications, it could possibly do you some good......i see bigger injectors, an AFPR, and the best ignition system money can buy

 

So if I take out my injectors or go to the bone yard and grab some and send them out to be cleaned. They will be good as new? And if they were dripping like mine, the guys down there will repair them? How do I know if the injector is any good, don't want to send them bad ones. Thanks again

 

Check out the cruizin performance web site. I think there is information about what they do in certain situations with the injectors. I don't think that injectors can get too damaged to be "rebuilt" unless they have serious mechanical damage. As far as being "like new", they'll be close but not quite new. And the cleaning should fix the dripping, as I believe the dripping is caused by deposits in the injector.

 

Thanks man, ya i read all the processes and stuff, but i have a buddy whos friends has a car like mine, and he is getting rid of it, i don't know why though, and he said the injectors are mine if I want them, so i was thinking of getting them and sending them out, just don;t want the guys to tell me they are no good ya know What should I do? Thanks

 

I say go for it. The chances are high that you are going to get a really good set of injectors back from cruizin performance.

 

Thanks man, did you ever fix your injecotors on your car? I need tires, fuel injectors and a hermonic balancer and my car should be all set. Valve seals later, LOL You think thats a good order to do them in? Thanks

 

Well, I'm on a tight budget, but right now I'm looking for a set of junkyard injectors.

Yeah, that sounds like a good order to me. You need good tire to stop... and go.

 

Yeah true, my tires still have some tread but will not get me threw the winter, right now they spin like crazy not even stepping on it, lol, even worse in the rain, but a good time sometimes, lol

 

Just curious, how do you tell if any fuel injectors are leaking? Is the gas smell in the oil the only clear cut symptom or can they be leaking and causing other symptoms without causing the oil to smell like gas .... or just not enough gas leaking into the oil to tell. Maybe by looking at the condition of the spark plugs or I heard of a fuel pressure test? How does that work?

 

Hey guys,

I have a daily driver 89 Integra with 154k miles and I think I am having similar problem. I couldn't figure it out for a while, I went to Integra forums and asked the same question 5 times without getting any constructive feedback.

In the morning the car starts without any problems at all. On a warm day if it seats for 4 hours and I go to lunch, it is much worse at starting up, and it seems almost as if it is choking and can't get going. I usually give it a little throttle and it starts up.

Is this the same problem you are describing here? I did buy a fuel pressure gage for other reasons (my pump was bad and I replaced it in the spring). If I hook up the gage, it should be a clear indication whether or not injectors are leaking, right?

 

To check to see if your fuel injectors are leakking, there are a couple things you can do. Smell oil like you did, put a gas pressure guage on the fuel line and see if it holds pressure. The other things you can do, have a friend turn you ignition on while you put ur head near the injecotors, when the pump primes, it puts pressure in the lines, now if you here like a water gun spray sound when he does that, you know its leaking, if not then you may just have a little bit dripping.

Yes that could be the same problem, Look into what I just said and see if you have those symtoms first.

 

If this is what it is, that would be most cool. I've been trying to track this problem down for quite a while now.

So what's the theory behind it? Why does the car start like new when it is cold and seats over night, but has trouble starting warm? Injectors will always leak.

 

Well, here's my theory. First of all, once your car has had time to sit, all the residual pressure in the fuel system has been released, and the extra gas that has dripped into the cylinders has passed through into the oil. Therefore, you no longer have that flooded hard start condition. Another theory of mine is that while the engine is hot, it is also passing heat into the fuel system, increasing the pressure of the gas so that it can keep leaking.

 

Heat doesn't increase pressure to much, however when it sits over night, the gas does pass threw but also evaporates, so there is no gas in there.

 

Well, not in the spirit of starting an argument, but I'll go with my theory and disagree with you.

 

only 1-4 of the fuel line is in the engine compartment. How come if you put a guage on the line, it reads the same when engine is cold or hott, and this is on a car without leaky injecoters?

 

The fuel rail is right above the engine. I'm not saying that the heat raises the fuel pressure above 45psi or whatever it is when the pump pressurizes the system. I'm saying that the residual heat after you turn the engine off keeps the pressure a little higher than if there were no residual heat from the engine, causing it to leak a little more.

 

I do agree, wasn't sure what ya ment Sorry about that man

 

Np. I didn't really elaborate on what I meant because I wasn't thinking that it could be interpreted in a different way. Anyways, the main idea is that once it has sat for a while, the fuel drains out of the cylinders and it starts like it should.

I just got a quote from a wrecker in Alberta (DavidT's Camaros, huge lot of wrecked Camaros) and he wanted $425 for a set of rebuilt injectors! Yeah right! I plan on getting a much better deal than that.

 

That price is crazy, i would never pay that, I could get all new ones for that price He is full of

 

That's what I said.

 

I may just wait on mine, I think I will just get a whole new set and spring for the money, this way I know they aare all good and spraying the same. I will install them myself. Do the bolts on the pluem break off easy or strip when you try to unbolt them? Thats the one thing I am worried about

 

I don't think you should have any problems getting the bolts off the plenum, but you must be really careful when bolting them back up because you can strip them that. It's best to use a good torque wrench.

I just got a quote today for $20, which I assume is per injector, but not rebuilt. So they still need to be cleaned.

 

Thats not to bad. I still got to get some one, i may just gte new ones with $60.00. This way they are new like i said. I will install them myself so it won't be to bad, just alot of cash for them. Its always something man

 

Just picked up my injectors today from the wrecking yard. The guy just gave me the injectors with the fuel rail (I didn't pay for the fuel rail). So now I have a spare rail. I may rebuild the spare one to make for a super easy swap. I took the injectors out of the fuel rail. Man, those O-rings really stick the injectors into the rail. i really hurt myself trying to get them out. I will probably send them to cruizinperformance this week.

 

hey junkie, time for an AFPR? wouldn't hurt to buy one now and slam it on the new rail while it's out. Then when u go to do injectors, swap rails, and be done, one less modification to do at a different time and date.

and depending on what other mods you'd do in the future, it could be well worth having the ability to up the ante' on pressure.

 

Well I was thinking of rebuilding the existing FPR, but I was going to ask for advice on that anyways. I seem to remember someone saying that the official word is it is not serviceable, but then someone found a replacement diaphragm. Anyways, whats the info on the AFPR?

 

The GM book says it's not servicable... but it is. You just need a tamper-proof torx set. Or, you can take a hammer and punch and tap down the little raised "nub" in the middle of the torx screws.

I have 3.1 injectors in my 2.8, and I passed the NJ dyno emissions test (I/M 5015) with no problems.