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if ur going to build a new motor do it on the cheap and run e-85 like mark is , swap on a set of 3400 heads and cam it witht he rwd pistions still in the motor
I would love to but there really is no close e85 stations...
Any way to bring the compression down to safe enough to run 93 on a very safe tune and low boost for daily driving? Thicker headgaskets?
New pistons...
thicker headgaskets (such as the gen3 gaskets) won't bring the SCR down enough and that also messes with the quench height, which can actually induce more detonation than using the thinner headgaskets with the higher SCR.
Just thinking about doing the hybrid build now....
!
pulled the camaro back into the driveway since we finished the dodge, its up on stands so if your free at any time ill be pulling the motor on it. my weeks hectic starting tomorrow otherwise ill get it out.
Mark, I'll message you when I get to swapping the injectors, I'm going to need some help in the tune as I haven't got that far yet.
SixShooter, I wasn't sure on the headgaskets, thank you for the explanation! If I do go hybrid I will defiantly have to go wth the fwd pistons as there is no E85 stations near me. I will probably have more questions in the future, thank you!
So on the to-do list is injectors, install new rear end, install proportioning valve, then get the 98-02 front brakes on. Even at 220-240 horsepower these brakes just do not cut it.
Breathes much better than the smaller filter. Actually feels better too. New injectors and 180 degree thermostat going in soon. Then turning the boost up some more.
Am I missing something in the tune? My desired boost is set to 10, then the wastegate opens instantly and I'm left with 5-6. The car falls flat on its face. Any way to fix this?
You would be amazed on the hp gained from a bigger air filter or less restriction in general on the turbo intake.
I always take off my filter and 4 inch 90* completely when I race it or make WOT test pulls. I noticed it last year with the new S366 that I was litterly .2-.4 rich on my arfs when I tuned it with the air filter on compared to it off. Obviously That restriction was holding me back a bit.
Keep in mind yes i'm taking a risk with no protection on my turbo durring racing but then again its jammed in there quite tight where it would be hard to suck a rock or something up in there. But the point is, it is amazing what less restriction at the turbo inlet will do. Glad the cars keeping you happy.
Now the thing that's even more amazing is the exhaust. I have a 3 inch dp then it goes to a cut out and then a 3 inch full exhaust (minus a cat. converter). That car litterly is 30-50hp weaker when its got the full exhaust on and the cut out capped off. Its crazy but its sure is nice and quiet on the 60 mile hike to the race track. I actually have a tune just for the exhaust when its capped off and restricted. It is significantly different. The fueling is IIRC almost 8-10 percent less with the exhaust restricted. Now of course you have a DP and thats it, but i promise one day it will get innoying to you and you will like to have the option to quiet it down when making long 60 mile+ trips. I ran a exhaust just like you for a bit over 2 years and I liked it at first but after about 2 years, i just got tired of it.
I can get some videos soon, have some small updates.
- Picked up a new dashpad! Bye bye large crack
- Ordered Founders Adj. Panhard Bar w/ poly bushings
- Pulled out my 4th gen rear w/ 3.73 gears and a TA girdle to be installed this week
Also took down a 4.6l mustang yesterday. The owner said it had a CAI, Long tubes, TB, Elbow, gears, 3 inch exhaust and a dyno tune. He said the car made about 300 to the wheels. Not sure where that puts me, but it sure felt good. The car could barely move out of its own way last year!
As for the tune, I have it at 11.5 psi right now. Its running great, got the idle at a solid 14.2-14.5 too. Makes about .3 degrees of knock when it shifts under WOT and I'm going to guess it is just something loose. Hopefully I can take it out to milan here pretty soon and see what it does. I would really be happy with anything in the 13s!
Which flag am I looking for? I see there are two different ones. Thank you for the help, I really appreciate it.
I will try adding some timing in the morning. My major problem is that since I really have no mechanical background, I do not know when it is appropriate to add or subtract timing. I have probably removed 2-3 degrees overall from Mark's base tune to stop spark knock. I believe a majority of my spark knock is probably from that piston I dinged up.
The additional timing seemed to help a little bit, still some bugs though. Wastegate control is still a little iffy though, not building desired boost.
Having a lot of fun with the car though, about 1500 miles so far. Its honestly like a whole new car, so happy I did this.
99' z28 rear end, 3.73 gears, DTS Girdle, disk brakes. I am adding some hotchkis LCAs, Competition Engineering 3-way adj. shocks, eibach springs, and a founders adj. panhard bar.
I didn't realize how much work it would be to remove my old rear end. Probably didn't help that all the bolts through rubber bushings were originals.... everything was seized up.
99' z28 rear end, 3.73 gears, DTS Girdle, disk brakes. I am adding some hotchkis LCAs, Competition Engineering 3-way adj. shocks, eibach springs, and a founders adj. panhard bar.
I didn't realize how much work it would be to remove my old rear end. Probably didn't help that all the bolts through rubber bushings were originals.... everything was seized up.
I remember back when I first took my stock rear end out...I cut every bolt out and had to hammer them out of the bushings. Killer thing was the car only has 100k miles at that time and it's been garage stored it's whole life. I just always disliked removing stock suspention stuff no matter the car and no matter the age.
Yeah I ended taking to long to remove it, so I couldn't finish the install. I am at a conference till thursday so no updates!
Hoping to get this rear end in, dial in the tune, turn up the boost, and take the car to milan. I move in September 2nd to college and won't be bringing the car with me. Probably wont have many updates then... but I will only be about 35 miles away from home. I don't want to bring the car though and have it dinged up on campus, plus it is leaking quite a bit of oil. Probably because I didn't torque down the oil pan gasket correctly... lol
No updates really to talk about. Took insurance off the car and put it in the polebarn. I bought a 2004 SRT-4 as a college daily with 114k miles on it. Fun little car!
In the spring the car needs the oil pan gasket replaced, I know it isnt a fun job... haha
Still no updates on the car, its under the cover in the polebarn.
Objectives for Spring:
- Get the damn thing to idle right. It still bugs me... lol
- Fix the oil pan leak
- Fix the timing cover leak
- Get the tune dialed in more along with touching up some little stuff
It honestly amazes me how much attention the car has gotten, and I'm not even driving it! I have probably ran into 4-5 people who have seen the car on facebook or on TGO. Not to shabby.
The goal is to make the car as reliable as it can be. Not focused on power when spring hits, only focusing on driving it. Hopefully I can make it happen and put some miles on it this summer.
Still no updates on the car, its under the cover in the polebarn.
Objectives for Spring:
- Get the damn thing to idle right. It still bugs me... lol
- Fix the oil pan leak
- Fix the timing cover leak
- Get the tune dialed in more along with touching up some little stuff
It honestly amazes me how much attention the car has gotten, and I'm not even driving it! I have probably ran into 4-5 people who have seen the car on facebook or on TGO. Not to shabby.
The goal is to make the car as reliable as it can be. Not focused on power when spring hits, only focusing on driving it. Hopefully I can make it happen and put some miles on it this summer.
It is truley amazing how much attention our little turbo v6s get. I'm in the same boat. It's quite cool.
Glad your first year turbocharged has went well. Your issues are minor and I'm sure you'll have no problem working on them.
I'm grateful for the friendships I've made from this forum. You and your brother being one of them. Anytime you need a hand just let me know and I'll make time to help.
I would love a second look. I will look through my datalogs to see if I can dig up anything usable. If not, I will have to get a log this weekend when I go home.
Still nothing new. On the lookout for a 3.1/3.4 block local to me. Going to purchase some leftover hybrid parts from Mark and build it similar to his first build.
Still nothing new. On the lookout for a 3.1/3.4 block local to me. Going to purchase some leftover hybrid parts from Mark and build it similar to his first build.
it's amazing how hard they are to find. Expecially the 3.4l. I got lucky finding on on 60degreev6.
I'll keep a eye out.
I have all they hybrid stuff ya need minus a reluctant wheel. But if you find a 3.4 you won't need one anyways.
Found a 3.4 shortblock that will be pulled out of a local car in the spring. Guy just needs the weather to break, pretty good score at $100.
Will build this engine on the side while I still run my 3.1l. Mark has a bunch of 3400 parts I plan on purchasing to build a 3.4/3400 hybrid. I will need to purchase the 3400 pistons to bring the compression down obviously, so that will be fun.
I was debating about looking at a different turbo, possibly something a little smaller. I have an SRT-4 Neon as my DD, and I am a member of many different part groups. There is constantly name brand turbos that come up for sale ranging from 50 to 60 trims. Could someone link a good article to read to find what would work well? Not sure if it would be a smart idea or not to change it up.
Everyone else's projects are looking good, but I'm over here slacking. Gotta love being a full-time student!
It is an ebay gt35 with a 61.5 inducer.It has held up really good, can't complain at all. Just wondering if I go to something smaller if it would help spool up times.
What kind of money do you want to spend on a new turbo? I have some thoughts but they cost a bit more then a flea bay turbo. Borg warner makes a good amount of different sizes. 66mm 63mm 60mm for the Full T4 turbos s300 series. And then 46mm 51mm and 56mm are for the s200 series. They come in all types of housing and ARs on the hot side.
If it was me and i wanted a fast spooling turbo for a 3.1 3.4 iron headed beast it would be a borg warner S300sx-60 T4 cold side but I would pick the T3 .70ar hot side housing in favor of the T4. Its almost the same as your gt35 but you will be surprised how much faster a good quality turbo spools up and its a tick smaller especially on the compressor size 60mm vs your 62mm. So less weight and faster spool but the borg warner looking at a compressor map would be so much more efficient then the gt35 you have now. Just my thoughts if you want to spend 500-600 bucks on a good quality turbo that will last 100k miles and then some.
But my only concern would be once you toss the hybrid top end on you will notice a huge gain in power exspecially in the 4k and up rpm area. Its amazing the difference and i would be concerned that you would start to make that T3 housing a restriction area, causing you to have to crank up the boost to get the hp you want. If you were staying arround 300-325hp like you probly have now this turbo would be perfect but when you add that hybrid you wont have any problem at all hitting 400hp on 12-15psi with stock heads, trust me. I had stock heads(just pocket ported) a delta 270 cam, and that 3.1/3400 tossed out 120mph slips all day long so you can see how much air the engine will want at a measly 15psi that i ran at max.
Honestly I would just keep your GT35 untill you finish up the hybrid swap. Then if its still a slow spooling turbo you can then change it out. But of all the turbos Ive ran the one you have is a damm good sized on for a iron headed one but with the hybrid i noticed even more that the GT35 was really getting choked up a bit when i started to push it. Remember my 11.70@115mph was with the GT35 on the 3.1/3100 on 15.5psi of boost. But my thinking is that your are not going to push it so hard as i did, so the GT35 may not be too small for you and actually be the perfect size. I remember the Gt35 on my hybrid would spool up fast. I could get it to spool at the line easily once i did the hybrid swap. You can do alot with tuning to get the turbo to spool faster. Not sure if you started messing with that much to help spool up time. And the boost solienod can also be played with to speed up the delay of it spooling up.
Awsome to see you have a 3.4L lined up
I have the 3400 heads, upper and lower intake, fuel rail, t stat housing, and custom pushrods that you would need.
If you get non forged pistons..... No sence in forged unless your really going for kill mode as the hyper one will last a long time and take a good beating till you get above 425hp considering you have a solid tune (no KR), these are the pistons i usually use. These are .000 over sized so youll have to adjust accordenly, but speedpro are decent. Or KB (kieth black are good as well)
Then these are the rings i usually use. Premium moly rings. Also std bore as well.
http://www.autozone.com/internal-eng...uestid=2354207
If You need to hone out your block let me know as i have a ball hone for our cylinders, and ill let ya use it and show you how to use it if you want. No sence in you spending 80 bucks on a good high grit hone if you dont need to.
At a cross road and need to make a decision here soon.
1.) Keep the little 3.1l V6 and enjoy it for what it is. I really don't see myself building anytime soon. I love the little car but the speed bug has bit me.
2.) Pull the 3.1l and drop in the L98 I have and boost that using $59. I would sell my turbo kit and fab up a similar one for the L98. I figure this gives me a little more room to grow on the setup and I can always upgrade down the road. I would source a V8 700r4 and use my current tuning equipment, injectors (buy two more 60lb), and cold side. Total cost would be pretty low. I did some searching for different combos and it seems a GT45 or T70 seem to fit the bill pretty well. Anyone have a good thread they can point me too? I saw dyno numbers all over the place.
3.) Go LS, but everyone goes LS. I really don't want to join that bandwagon plus I would like to re-use what I have.
route 4. buy my 406 lol kidding. i wouldnt source a 700r4 behind a v8 your adding power to in all honesty. manual 4l80e sure, otherwise th350/375/400/475 etc
I can't say much because of what I have done, getting rid of my v6. But it will be sad to see your setup get sold to somebody. But I understand 100 percent.
But I will say if you turbo a V8 better build everything else up to handle the power. A turbo V8 is nothing like a V6. A stock 700r would not last long. A 4l80 would be the best for you since you want od.
a ls swap of course would be the best but it is such a common Affair and that is one reason that I don't want to do it myself. And it cost more and it's more difficult to do. You saw that I swaped the small block V8 in the my car literally within days it was really really easy all you had to do was change the bolts on the motor mounts move the brake line slightly and else than that it's just cosmetic stuff you have to change. Such as radiator hoses stuff like that. Of course you would need a V8 transmission.
It all comes down to what you want to do. 70-75mm turbo would work really well on a 350 small block I would think. I am looking at a s480 BorgWarner turbo for mine. Or just buying one more 366 turbo so I would have twin turbos
Another area to look at is the internals of a sbc and what the block can handle. Though it is a pain in the butt to make a 400hp v6. It won't take a lot to make a 600-800hp turbo v8. So you have to think about what all the engine itself can handle. Of course somewhat stock ls blocks can handle a lot.
Car still needs to be very street friendly, so unfortunately a th350/400 is not going to work.
I'm ballin' on a budget here Tyler... lol
I wish I had the funds to put a t56 behind it but I don't. I figure the 10 bolt will probably go before the 700r4.
if you have a auto..... the 10 bolt will last longer then a stock 700r. Especially if you do a few minor cheep mods to the 10 bolt. I have a freak 10 bolt that can pull 1.60 60 foot time and time again without any issues. It's a roll of the dice. Really you should ditch the 10 bolt And the 700 if going with a turbo 350 sbc or at least ditch the 10 bolt And really beef up the 700.
I hear you mark, I know the 700r4 would probably be the weak point. At this point I just don't know what to do. I'm probably going to sit down and make a spreadsheet later today and put some numbers to the ideas.
Thanks for the advice! Hopefully some others can chime in also.
I agree with others, the limiting factor there will be the 700R4.
I'm converting one of my vehicles to automatic and the 700R4 would be a bolt and won't put it in, I'll be installing a 4L80E instead, because I should NEVER be able to hurt it with a turbo LX9 or LZ9... plus I'll be adding AWD if everything pans out the way it should.
Anyway, it deopends on what your long term goals are. If your eventual plan is to go V8, then go V8, but if it's just more power you want build the V6, Mars has proven that the LZ9 can make north of 500 HP on stock internals (with a cam swap), but add some good rods and pistons and should be able to push that number reliably.
I think you're suffering from the Gen 1 660 limitations, being the heads and intake, swap them out and the power potential goes way up, especially if you also go to a newer beefier and higher displacement version.
If I had a 3rd gen, it would never get a V8 for as long as I owned it, it would have an LX9 or LZ9 with a turbo or two, and show people what can be done with fewer cylinders and less displacement.
I agree with others, the limiting factor there will be the 700R4.
I'm converting one of my vehicles to automatic and the 700R4 would be a bolt and won't put it in, I'll be installing a 4L80E instead, because I should NEVER be able to hurt it with a turbo LX9 or LZ9... plus I'll be adding AWD if everything pans out the way it should.
Anyway, it deopends on what your long term goals are. If your eventual plan is to go V8, then go V8, but if it's just more power you want build the V6, Mars has proven that the LZ9 can make north of 500 HP on stock internals (with a cam swap), but add some good rods and pistons and should be able to push that number reliably.
I think you're suffering from the Gen 1 660 limitations, being the heads and intake, swap them out and the power potential goes way up, especially if you also go to a newer beefier and higher displacement version.
If I had a 3rd gen, it would never get a V8 for as long as I owned it, it would have an LX9 or LZ9 with a turbo or two, and show people what can be done with fewer cylinders and less displacement.
I agree that you should try a hybrid set up. It will push you well into a 375 400hp car with mild boost. Just don't go crazy like me and you will be fine...lol
the only reason I ditched mine plan and simple is be cause I need to have a consistent bracket car and with my life right now I just don't have time to fix it every weekend. I still basically have a whole running engine and parts and pieces minus a rod crank and piston to make another engine. I'm not done with the v6s. Just for this year in done. But I think you'll fine that the difference between a hybrid and the iron headed beast is unbelievable. You'll understand once you try it.
After talking a little bit with mark I think the right choice is to go hybrid. I already have the setup, transmission, and other components needed in order to drop the engine in and get it running correctly. Mark has a lot of extra hybrid parts also that I would need.
I'll probably sell the 350 TPI in order to fund the project. I'll keep updating as things come along. I'm on the lookout probably for a 3.4l block to keep things simple (already has crank trigger, bigger displacement, etc).
Probably pulling the car out this week. I need to polish out the paint and then I am wrapping the black portion with gloss black metallic vinyl. I have an issue with my paint where it is to soft and it oxidizes extremely fast. I figure this is a cost effective way to keep the black paint looking good and I can deal with the red for a while. After that I have the 98+ brake kit to go on and I will hopefully be ordering the Ground Control weight jack system.
Well, I had a lead on a 3.4l shortblock. The whole car sold! Just my luck... haha
Back to the drawing board.
I wish I had a spare one for you. The best thing you can do is go straight to the junkyard and get one they have two 3.4 liters at cherry pick Auto in Toledo they are in 4th gen Camaros. The whole motor only cost $250. If you need any help let me know but I think that's your best route and then you can sell off some of the other things to try to recoup your money from the parts you wont need
My dad has been restoring a 70' Camaro for the last 6 years. He bought a 700r4 to go in it from our neighbor who knew nothing about it. Turns out that when the trans shop inspected it the transmission is fully built. They estimated it will hold between 700-800 ftlbs.
Since the 700r4 was the weak link in my turbo V8 plan, i wonder if I should reconsider it now. All I really use this car for is to cruise around and go to car shows. Maybe go to the track every once in a while.
My dad has been restoring a 70' Camaro for the last 6 years. He bought a 700r4 to go in it from our neighbor who knew nothing about it. Turns out that when the trans shop inspected it the transmission is fully built. They estimated it will hold between 700-800 ftlbs.
Since the 700r4 was the weak link in my turbo V8 plan, i wonder if I should reconsider it now. All I really use this car for is to cruise around and go to car shows. Maybe go to the track every once in a while.
800ft lbs rating on a 700r. I'd like to talk to dana at pro built about that and ask you who built it. That would cost some serious serious dough. 4l80e would be a much better build for strength and overdrive retention.
Either way, it is better than a stock 700r4. I'm just torn with what to do. It would really suck to sink money into a Turbo TPI and then not be happy with the outcome. There isn't a lot of threads I could find to verify that it can make good, reliable power. The nice thing about it is that I could retain my current tuning equipment and I have the engine, trans, etc.
If somone could chime in here that would be great. I know LS is the way to go, but it would cost 3x the amount of money.
Either way, it is better than a stock 700r4. I'm just torn with what to do. It would really suck to sink money into a Turbo TPI and then not be happy with the outcome. There isn't a lot of threads I could find to verify that it can make good, reliable power. The nice thing about it is that I could retain my current tuning equipment and I have the engine, trans, etc.
If somone could chime in here that would be great. I know LS is the way to go, but it would cost 3x the amount of money.
You want to turbo the tpi Right? Many people have so I'm sure you can make a dang fast car with it if you go that route.
We will see what happens with the car down the road. I just ordered my Ground Control weight jack system and picked up some e38 BMW M-Parallel wheels I am refinishing. Also ordering the LS1 Hubs/Bracket kit from Scott at Big Brake Upgrade to get my LS1 Brakes on. From there I need to play with the idle tune some more (I think I need to add some more timing at idle) and get that all sorted out. Enjoy it for the summer and go from there. Would like to see the car get on a dyno this year and pump out ~300 wheel horsepower. We will see... lol
We will see what happens with the car down the road. I just ordered my Ground Control weight jack system and picked up some e38 BMW M-Parallel wheels I am refinishing. Also ordering the LS1 Hubs/Bracket kit from Scott at Big Brake Upgrade to get my LS1 Brakes on. From there I need to play with the idle tune some more (I think I need to add some more timing at idle) and get that all sorted out. Enjoy it for the summer and go from there. Would like to see the car get on a dyno this year and pump out ~300 wheel horsepower. We will see... lol
Even though I have all those videos of 11 second passes and a 11.23@123mph timeslip, the one thing I regret is not dynoing my turbo 6.
07-06-2016, 03:04 PM
