Wafflestomp

Okay so I have almost everything I need for my hybrid swap just need to clarify some stuff. I got my parts off a 3100 engine I think it was a 98 since that was casted on the ends of the lower manifold. Any way I have the pistons from the engine as well im curious if I will need to bore my 2.8 in order to accept the 3100 pistons and if I will also need to use the 3100s connecting rods or if the 2.8 connecting rods will work. Any and all responses are helpful thanks

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

The bore of the 2.8 and 3.1/3100 are the same...

The connecting rods are the same between the 2.8 and 3.1/3100...

Wafflestomp

Thanks for the clarification much appreciated. I'll start posting pics of my progress when I start installing parts very excited to see how much difference there will be in how the car responds with your experience sixshooter what can I expect

1slow8t3

If you are using 3100 pistons you will need to use a 3.1/3.4/3100 crank too

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Good point, I for some reason just figured that was a given.

koolchriscamaro

How goes the project? I FINALLY got my 3.4/3500 up and running in my 95 camaro. That thing will MOVE and I haven't even got the tuning on it completely dialed in. Can't wait to supercharge it!

Wafflestomp

quick question im looking for a 3.1RWD crank i know they have 3.31" throws will FWD 3100 crank also be the same throw as the rear wheel drive Variation because those are the only ones i can find in my area and i really would prefer not to hash out 500 bucks for a new one. im boring my block .060 over and would like to utilize a better crank for more CI. I know this is probably getting annoying lol, but your help is very much appreciated.

Wafflestomp

koolchriscamaro

Are those valve covers powercoated?

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

If your question is if you can use a FWD 3100 crank? Then the answer is yes.

I used a 3.1L (gen2) crank in my '87 S10 2.8L block when I built my Franken60. The 3.1, 3100 and 3400 all use the same crank (RWD 3.1 might not have the crank trigger slots machined, but that's not an issue for what you're doing), so you can use a crank from any of those engines.

Wafflestomp

Yes

Wafflestomp

A little update since I haven't posted in a while I got a donor Engine for the swap in case I potato something, its a 3.1 out of a 1990 camaro with120,000 miles. It was definitely a Pennzoil engine with the very large build ups of wax in the valley. Despite the build up the bearing surfaces were beautiful. I am using cam, main, and rod bearings from clevite and keith black .040 over pistons and piston rings from sealed power. Unfortunately I couldnt find any rings that would match .060 over pistons so I went with the .040 over ones. I currently am out of money so ill continue in a month or so still need to clean and bore the block and polish the bearing surfaces of it and the crank.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Does the block need to go .040" over, or are you just going that big just because?

If the block doesn't need that much to clean it up and you haven't ordered the pistons yet, I would get pistons in the minimum overbore possible, to leave as much meat in the walls as possible and leave room in the future for another rebuild (or more) if needed.

The small amount of potential power gain is not worth the thinner walls needed for large overbores. The gain is very small, if any.

Wafflestomp

I already have the pistons the walls are In perfect condition and dont need to be bored the pistons I got from the 3100 were damaged when the guy removed them so I decided when I bought new ones to just get .040 over personal choice to late now lol

Wafflestomp

Initial teardown no enine stand lol



The living room





The wax that was in the valley

Wafflestomp

Quick updated New Delta 270 cam on way as well as custom length pushrods, lifters and the Crank position sensor from BCC and the Moates tuning software is on its way as well. motor and crank is gonna be sent off to be cleaned up polished bored exc im also looking at turbo stuff right now to get an idea of what to get.. more pics soon!!!!

Wafflestomp

Update* turbo and intercooler ordered need a wide band O2 sensor, blow off valve, waste gate and boost controller oh and of course I need to build headers

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

1. Swap to a 1227165 TPI ECM PRONTO. There is no tuning support for your existing 1227302.
2. Get rid of that blasted heater crossover pipe running from the thermostat end of the intake under the one runner. You won't be using it and you will probably need to relocate the coolant temp sensor to that hole using a 3/8 NPT tap and plug the other hole. If you plan on running the heater, use a 12 AN to 1/2 NPT adapter fitting in place of that quick connect POS and get a 12 AN 180* elbow to run heater hose to.
3. You NEED an alternator bracket and alternator from a 93-95 and make a custom bracket for the crank sensor. And you will need to modify the alternator rear housing. You're welcome. The ONLY part of the BCC kit worth anything is the damper. But you can make that with your eyes closed. And I hope you have the right crank sensor for a 3.4 93-95.

And are you selling the 2.8 parts? If so, PM me. I'm in need of a couple things.

Wafflestomp

There is tuning support for the 1227302 it uses $3a

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Opps. Delete double post

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

You have a 302 ecm.. those are buggers. Not very friendly. A 7730 swap wouldn't be too difficult. Even a 165 swap would be a better ecm then a 302

Wafflestomp

Yeah I do I plan on getting a 7730 soom however I dont have to many junk yards near me so I need to ebay one def on my list though but last because I need to get this engine put together before it starts to snow and I need to research how to wire in map in place of maf

Maverick H1L

iTrader: (8)

I didn't say it hadn't been hacked. I said there isn't any tuning support. Nobody bothers to work with the 302 because they prefer to swap to either the 1227165 or 1227730 or others which use different definitions and better code ($88 comes to mind). So you may or may not get help due to the fact you're pretty much venturing into unknown territory. You already have pretty much eliminated the use of a Moates Ostrich or the like due to the fact that the 302 doesn't have a MEMCAL.

I'd like to see how this turns out if you do decide to try working with the 302... I already know tuning an MSII is nearly impossible unless you buy it prebuilt because weird problems happen...

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

The fact that there's definition files, means that it indeed DOES have tuning support.

An ECM doesn't need to have a MEMCAL in order to use an Ostrich. The '7747 and other C3 type ECMs don't have MEMCALs, and the Ostrich works fine with them, with a socket booster to help increase the signal.

Tuning an MS2 is not impossible with a DIY built unit. The tuning is EXACTLY the same, pre-built or DIY. "weird problems" happen because people don't research or understand what it is they are doing, regardless of who built the MS2.

Wafflestomp

*update
So the block is off to the shop finally to be cleaned, bored, cam bearings installed and to have the rods reconditioned and new pistons installed on them.
Engine stand and picker also showed up and put together and I got a throttle cable.
Side note the radiator support should be fixed within a wewk or two. I also got my hands on an Ice man racing tb my dad found it in a tree when he was doing a job lol dont know what it was doing there I may try to adapt it to the upper intake

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Sweet let me know how those pushrods fit. If you have different lifters then i did it may be off a bit but i have plenty of sets within what you would need and will trade ya so you have the perfect set.

Wafflestomp

Will do man I need one of those adjustable pushrods right?

Wafflestomp

Oh yeah and I just scored some 3400 stuff now I get a tad bit more power im gonna try my hand at porting too

Wafflestomp

Im trying to decide how I want to run my exhaust currently I know Im gonna be running 3inch down pipe off the turbo to either a 3.5 inch borla xr1 or an flowmaster outlaw. After the muffler its gonna y so i can keep my 2 tips. Just curious what you guys think im currently leaning more towards borla at the moment

Wafflestomp

Priming the block



Clear coat on and done



Installing camshaft Delta 270 grind



Not using the 3100 upper and lower but put them on to check out how she'll look cleaning the 3400 upper and lower for paint and primer soon


Got alot done since I last posted waiting on plastigauage and feelers to check oil clearance for crankshaft. Quick question can I use the heads from a 3100 on a 3400 upper and lower. Will they flow the same? I didnt notice when I gought the 3400 heads but some how th guy broke 3 exhaust manifold studs off in the head. Didnt see it cause the manifols were still on them.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Small port 3100 heads (that match that upper and lower) are different than the 3400 heads where the intake ports are concerned. It's a small difference, but enough that sealing between the head and the intake could be an issue.

Wafflestomp

okay thanks man

Wafflestomp

Fixed the mangled radiator support and got new radiator now its back to my engine. I need help with head gaskets I have a set of 3400 heads and a 3.1 block bored .04 over do I need a 3400 head gasket with a .04 increase or a 3.1 gasket thats +.04 ??

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Are you using 3100 pistons?? Then use 3100/3400 head gaskets. .060 comprested thickness. When I ran Ole felpro gaskets and was over bored I just ran std gaskets.

Wafflestomp

Alright cool I was worried that there could be a problem with std bore gaskets and im interested in those headers ur selling if u see this post b4 the one on your thread

Wafflestomp

Oh yeah and im t l curious what a good spring valve combo is the valves on the 3400heads arw nunk as well as the springs id like a stiffer than stock spring so I can be in the 7k rpm range

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

If you are running a 260 cam or larger i would strongly strongly suggest saving up a few bucks and getting these. They are what i run and it will be the last set of springs youll ever need for you ride.

They fit right in there and are direct replaceents for what you already have. you can also reuse your retainers and locks. So if you wanted to you can just replace the springs themselfs and be fine.

https://wot-tech.com/comp-cams-26986-valve-springs.html

Wafflestomp

Sweet thanks man

Wafflestomp

Engine is 90% built! I still need a few odds and ends like a crank trigger and the oil feed and return for the turbo and some big injectors and a walhbro fuel pump. Then its on to electrical crap like swapping in a 7730 ecm with a MAP sensor wiring in dis ignition and crank trigger sensor!

Wafflestomp

Need the crank trigger and some injectors and the motor will be done headers will be done in a month or so by Fasteddie

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Looking good bud. What are you doing for a crank trigger? Buying a pre fabed one or making something?

C2YT contact him, he may still have some 36lbs injectors for sale. I wouldnt go any smaller then that though but it may save you some cash. If not contact southbay for some 48lbs injectors, they will make you a good deal. 150-200 bucks for a set of 6. I had some for many years then sold them to C2YT.

C2YT

I actually sold the 36lb injectors Mark, but thanks for the sending him my way!

Contact southbay for sure. I believe you also get a certain percentage off if you say you are from TGO.

Wafflestomp

thats actually pretty cool that they'll offer discounts yeah ill give em a call ill probably get some 50lb injectors instead of 48s its like 300 without the discount and I ordered the crank trigger but I still need a way to mount my alternator and sensor for the trigger

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

Yea its a 10 percent discount from what i remember. 48 or 50 doesnt matter its whatever they have. I dont remember them costing 300 bucks though. I got my 48lbs bocsh type 3s for IIRC 180 give or take. But 2lbs per hr is hard to notice the difference. I can tell you all that those 48lbs/hr injectors will support a hybrid 3.1 or 3.4 up to a easy 450Hp at stock fuel pressure at 15psi of a 1-1 rising rate fuel pressure(stock 3100 3400 regulator).

IIRC 48(lbs/hr) multiply by 6 injectors = 288lbs per hr. Then multiply by the highest duty cycle you want to run. Southbay told me 90% max anymore then that and its basicaly static (wide open) that equals 259.2lbs per hr. Then you divide that by your BSFC(Brake specific fuel consumption) Rule of thumb is .55-.60 for turboed cars, and honestly this is all just a guess compared to read deal times slips, mph, and weight vs duty cycle on a datalog IMO. But 259.2lbs per hr divided by .60 bsfc equals 432 Crank HP.

Now on my car a example pass is this. I ran a 11.23 as a best ever at 123mph. Race weight is 3190 as of that run. My duty cycle was 92% max. So if i use multiply calculators i come up with 487hp when i use 123mph and 3190lbs and 459hp when i use 11.23 as a ET and 3290lbs as a weight.

My point..... is that 48lbs are a very common size. 50s are not so common but if they have them, awsome. Im sure it will work for you and will keep you happy for a while. I wouldnt go any larger then 48lbs or 50, if you dont have to unless you plan to run E85 at some point. I have 80lbs a hr and i will say the bigger you go the harder it is to dial in the lower end of the fueling table exspecially the idle. But dont go any smaller then 42lbs hr either.

Either way you are right where you wana be for fueling. But i will say with those injectors make sure to get a new fuel pump and save the time to change it later when you dont want to. A walbro 255lph or something of that size is a easy swap and will handle what you give to is. I have a 425lph now but for 5 years i ran a 255 and it took everything i could throw at it and worked great. Best 100 bucks ive ever spend on the fuel system.

Wafflestomp

sick its going to be fun trying to learn this stuff on the fly lol . And yeah I decided to switch over to e85 instead of premium it seemed like the better choice with what I want out of the car im going to contact south bay in a few days to see whats up maybe they have them for cheaper

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

if going e85 I would get at least 80 lbs per hr. That's what I'm using currently

Wafflestomp

80lbs per hr that much bigger? How come?

fasteddi

iTrader: (2)

E85 requires much more fuel to produce the same hp level. So if you plan to run 48lbs with gas, plan to run 80s all day for e85. When I ran e85, i averaged about 12mpg. On gas it was 20 on Ave. Keep in mind my set ups a bit wild and has a 3 speed trans. 80lbs injectors got me about 70% injector DC on my set up. 48lbs gas were arround 85%. And on e85 I ran half the boost because my compression was very very high.


this explains it better.
www.enginebasics.com/Advanced%20Engine%20Tuning/E85%20Basics.html

Wafflestomp

I have the injectirs ordered from south bay. The crank teigger came with a mounting bracket so i wont need to fab one. I need to find my oil pan bolts to tighten that on and i need an o2 sensor after that im just waiting on Fasteddie with the headers

Wafflestomp

Looking for fuel pumps to use just curious if this 400lph walbro is good its specific for e85 which is the fuel im using
https://www.southbayfuelinjectors.com/parts-accessories/fuel-pumps/walbro-400lph-e85-in-tank-fuel-pump