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Yeah the cam bearings are gonna get replaced, the new cam came with a new set of lifters and bearings, so that's good to go. My brother can put those in, luckily he's a machinist, only downside is that he doesn't have what I need to grind the crankshaft. The machine shop quoted me at 80 to do it, BUT I found a remanufactured one for 50, reground by 0.020. Thing is I cant find any bearings matching that, would I just use standard size for that?
I am taking the crank over tomorrow first thing in the morning to another machine shop for a second opinion.
Last edited by Aerizanthar; 06-08-2017 at 09:54 PM.
I initially took my crank to another machine shop and the price they quoted me at is actually the same price I can get a remanufactured one through my workplace, with a full set of main and connecting rod bearings.. So as soon as the money is in place, I'll be going with the remanufactured one. In the meantime, I'll be working on painting and prepping the rest of the engine and compartment.
Last edited by Aerizanthar; 06-10-2017 at 11:02 AM.
Small update, many of the parts that I need are in, and the crankshaft just came back from the shop. I am having another shop install my camshaft bearings so they are done right, and the rest I'll be handling on my own. At this point, i am just waiting on my gasket/seals set, my main bearings, and my connecting rod bearings. Once those parts are here, itll just be a matter of cleaining a few more things and then putting it all back together.
I've decided to trim the engine with additional black, but with metal fleck and clear coat instead of the blue I originally decided on. I'm not a fan of chrome, and the black has always looked good in the engine compartment, so I am in the process of cleaning and fixing up the rocker arm covers right now. It looks like the 22nd is when everything will take off once again. Once the rocker arm covers are painted, I'll post a pic of em!
Finished cleaning all the engine trimmings and other parts and MY HEADS FLASH RUSTED so naturally I freaked out and went all drastic measures on it, there was an old atv battery laying near the trash cans in the shop and I just uncorked it and dumped it all over the heads... never seen rust liquefy so fast. I hurried up and sprayed it all off with water after about 10 minutes and heat dried it real fast, and then painted the surfaces then coated the non-painted surfaces with some general stock motor oil. It is sitting on my dinner table so I can watch it like a hawk. Looking like 2 to 3 more days before the last set of bearings show up... I just hope it makes it. The other parts, all the mounting hardware and the timing cover etc didn't have a lick of rust on them, turns out because they are aluminum! Didn't know that. Makes me want aluminum heads, but I can't find aftermarket heads for this beast anywhere, plus all the heat and warping and expansion and other stuff I just don't think aluminum heads is a good idea for my application... Hopefully I have no more scares like that flash rusting!
Aluminum heads are a whole different project. They come off the FWD cars, there's a sticky at the top of the page all about it, plus countless other threads on the "hybrid swap".
I feel pretty sure I will stick to the iron heads. Something about solid uron, in my mind anyway. I dont have any data to support the decision, I just like the idea of solid steel and iron.
Camshaft is installed with new kiftera and new timing components, back seal is in place, front seal is in place, all trimmings are painted and gasket surfaces cleaned. I am hoping tomorrow will be the delivery day on my mainand connecting rod bearings. I still have to finish scraping off the carbon deposits from the Pistons and clean em up but that takes no time at all. So now, we wait!
Crank polished and ready to go!!
Oil pan is ready to rock!
Block, beginning to come together! Cylinders honed and ready.
Actually the cam I have in now is from Edelbrock, performer plus part number 3790, claims it's designed for torque and acceleration which is what I am aiming to improve as I save this engine. Thanks for the offer though, I'm sure someone else reading this will jump on it!
So I have ran into a massive snag. The bearungs shipped match to the 1985+ 2.8l engines... all the bearings are the same except for the rear. The rear bearing on the 1984- has half an inch of width more and an additional oil channel.. My supplier is trying his best to find the set I need for an exact match BUT so far its very rare. Is it possible to use the 1985+ set? I'd rather not screw something up by using them if they won't work. Part numbers for comparison are 7242ma25mm for the set I have, 7241ma25mm for the set i need. Sealed Power brand. Any advice at all would be extremely appreciated at this point, as this is the only thing holding me back.
I confirmed my fears... The set of bearings I have is actually larger in diameter than the slots for them, the little lock tabs aren't in the right place, its an entirely different set. I can't believe there's that much of a difference between 84 and 85 but it's staring right at me, so I guess its time to hunt for the other part, and see if i can get rid or return this set I have. More down time to come I guess.
ROCK AUTO may have saved me, I found them! 2 days remaining, my pay day will line up with the last day they have them and with a good price point too!
Last edited by Aerizanthar; 06-28-2017 at 09:04 PM.
In 85, GM changed to a different block larger main journal on the crankshaft, so different block/crank/bearings and previous 2.8. Much stronger bottom end.
Here's the specs
Main bearing journal diameter
--1982 (all).......................................... 2.4937 to 2.4946 inches
--1983 and 1984
----Journals 1, 2 and 4 .......................... 2.4937 to 2.4946 inches
----Journal 3........................................ 2.4932 to 2.4941 inches
--1985 and later.................................... 2.647 to 2.648 inches
In 85, GM changed to a different block larger main journal on the crankshaft, so different block/crank/bearings and previous 2.8. Much stronger bottom end.
Here's the specs
Main bearing journal diameter
--1982 (all).......................................... 2.4937 to 2.4946 inches
--1983 and 1984
----Journals 1, 2 and 4 .......................... 2.4937 to 2.4946 inches
----Journal 3........................................ 2.4932 to 2.4941 inches
--1985 and later.................................... 2.647 to 2.648 inches
Yep, those match exactly this time on the set I am ordering. Just waiting for the money to be in place, then its all down hill from here.
Just a quick update, decided to replace piston rings as well, managed to get a good deal on a new set when I ordered my bearings. Everything should be here next week. Just an afterthought though, considering that I am taking the rings off and replacing the bearings, do the pistons still need to be matched to their old cylinders? I am assuming yes, just wondering if true and why.
Everything that i needed came in today. Naturally as soon as the parts hit the door, i was in the shop. Assembly libe slung, crank installed and put in time with the cam sprocket, bearing caps torqued to specifications and crank rotated each time a bolt was torqued. Still free flowing and ready to rock! Here's a look at the current progress...
Here we see the timing put in place. Crankshaft sprocket facing up at 0 degrees, camshaft sprocket exact opposite at 180 degrees. The chain lines them up perfectly!
Crankshaft surfaces are smothered in assembly lube, caps torqued to specs. Cleaned up the oil pan gasket surface while I was down there.
Used a ridge reamer to pull the top lip off the cylinder walls, then followed up with a brake hone to smooth out the surfaces. Ready for pistons!
Speaking of pistons, all lined up with new rings and bearings waiting on the left, ratchet, more assembly lube, and socket on the right, and torque wrench waiting! The top surfaces still need cleaned of carbon, and the old rings still need removed as well. Busy day tomorrow!
Big day complete! Lower end done, harmonic balancer, timing cover, water pump, oil pan, pistons, the works all installed and ready to go. Now to set up the top end for the next few days. But first, some imagery!
Passenger side view, #1 piston at top dead center for timing purposes. Driver side view, #4 piston close to top. Note the marking dot to show direction for front, as well as what is left of the carbon deposits. Good view of K&N HP-1001 oil filter too! Gotta put the sensor in before pre-oiling or else I will be back where I started...
No images today, but cylinder heads are on and valve lash is done. I wasn't impressed by my work so I didn't photograph it.. but head bolts were torqued to specifications, and I followed the clockwise outward spiral from the center for bolt torque order. Valve lash was done by tightening the bolt on the rocker arm until the pushrod began to resist, then another 3/4 turn to preload the lifters. I went by what the manual said. Most of my time was spent on the exhaust manifolds today. I broke off the old metal case for the pre-heater hose since I won't be using one, drilled out the old flange bolt holes, and took out the oxygen sensor. They'll be sent tomorrow to be sandblasted along with my pulleys and fan, in preparation for paint and finishing. The bolt holes will need tapped and I have to figure out something to do with the old AIR injection ports on the passenger side manifold, as that equipment is no longer used.
My shoulders are shot after the drilling process. Since I don't own a drill press, and my vice is mounted on my welding bench which is fairly high, and I am short... I spent a good 2 hours pushing most of my weight holding a handheld drill positioned at eye level. It was rough, but the job is done! Tomorrow I plan to rest, but thursday I'll be back at it.
Had to take some time off, damaged something in my shoulder. But tonight, I came back with a massive bang in production! Everything is in place for it to be turned over tomorrow, hopefully with zero issues when I do. Engine mounts are bolted in place. Torque converter lined back up with the old slots and bolted up. Transmission and engine are bolted together. The biggest step was redoing the wiring in the engine compartment.
Due to the fact that I changed her to a fully mechanical carb, took out some of the unnecessary stuff and took the air conditioning out, and had to rig up the blower motor to toggle switch, the wiring needed some renovation. Tore out a good bit of obsoleted connectors and wiring, cleaned everything up and gave everything new wiring looms. Good news on top of all that, my special spark plug wire looms will be here on the 3rd, so I will be able to dress it up a bit further while I am at it.
Gotta figure out what wire goes where for the starter though. And now some images of the progress!
Waiting to be dropped in!
Good view of the fuel line routing. That was a headache to figure out! It is the silver hose on the front, snaked behind the power steering mount.
Another look at the fuel line routing
Here's a look at the brass fitting rig I came up with to simplify things at the carb inlet. Coming from the fuel pump, it goes into a 45 degree brass fitting and into the inline fuel filter, up to a 90 degree elbow and into a brass tee connected to the pressure gauge and a short length of rubber hose to break up rigidness, and into the inlet it goes.
Now that it's mounted in place, i feel this would be a good time for a before and after photo... so here it is!
Before.... After! Minus a shroud and some hoses of course.
Looks like tomorrow will be the day I put all my time to the test. I hope it goes well. If there is snything I should know, double check, etc. Please let me know. You guys have been a great help uo to this point. I want to make sure all this work wasnt for nothing.
Nice work, good to see it all coming back together. You may want to do some research on that glass fuel filter, there have been a lot of engine fires attributed to them. There's a guy in a recent thread who is rebuilding his car due to an engine fire caused by one of those.
Thanks for the tip on that fuel filter, thats definitely something i dont want. Ill replace it as soon as possible.
so today I finished everything. All wires checked out. All connections were good. I put the key in, and tried to turn it over. No fire. Waited a minute, tried again, this time longer. No fire. Turned just fine, just wouldnt fire. I stopped and checked everything. Theres a coolant leak at the water pump and at the water neck outlet, ill be addressing them soon. There is a small fuel leak at the lower end where the metal line switches to rubber after the fuel pump. Again, easily fixed. I set to work on the water neck, and once i felt it was fixed i went to turn it over again. No crank. No drop in voltage either to signal the starter was engaged. I tried again, same result. Waited a minute, tried again. Same result. No turn, no voltage drop.
I left feeling crushed, after all this hard work how could I fail? Now the engine is locked up tight and leaking, and I might as well junk it. As i started writing this though, I did have a thought.. No voltage drop, then the starter is not engaging!
Once I fix the leaks I feel it may be worth checking the starter connections. If i am right that is.. but I am still seriously worried it is locked up and done for.
I need help.
I don't want to give up, but I dont know what to do now. I' d like to pull on your collective knowledge, see if there is anything I may have missed. Not enough fuel pressure due to the leak, timing not set up right, spark plugs not recieving spark, how to check all of this. I need to figure this out, I dont want to let it go.
Thanks, I appreciate it. My confidence was shattered today. I am pretty sure theres an issue with the starter, and an issue with the timing. Or no spark. That would explain the fact that it didnt turn over. The leaks are easy to fix too. I wonder if it didnt get enough fuel? I know the three things it needs, fuel, compression, spark. So one of those has to be wrong. First i have to get it turning again. And fix the leaks.
No problem I have no doubt you'll figure it out, it took me months to get my 2.8 running, replacing things left and right, when the only problem was the ECM's power wire being disconnected at the battery
That may sound rediculous to some, but im ptetty sure my wife bumped the shifter and knocked it out of park enough to engage the neutral safety switch, ehich would explain why the starter is dead. I wont know til after work today.
I never thought about pulling the plugs! With new rings, it is probably compressing alot better, which unfortunately means I am trying to do the compression by hand when i turn it. I'll give it a shot either tonight or tomorrow, we have heavy thunderstorms in the area right now. I pucked up some water resistant formagasket for the water pump and water neck. I plan to find some sort of sealant for the fuel line, or a different solution alltogether, and then itll be back to trying to fire.
thank you all again for the help, without you guys I may have given up a long time ago!
Alright!
Your information and my determination paid off!
As it turns out, there were several issues. Number one, and most obvious, was the fact it was 180 degrees out of time. I pulled the distributor and spun the engine to the right timing then dropped it back in. It stull wouldnt turn over, so i checked the starter. Bolt was loose! Then, it turned, and sputtered, almost like a sinister cackle. It was waking! I loosened the bolt on the distributor and began to rotste it in different directions, trying to feel out the timing location that would be best. Each time it would come closer but not close enough to turn on her own. Finally, i was getting frustrated and i just soun the distributor, more than just a little bit, like unsafely just spun it a good 10 to 20 degrees and jumped in, stomped the pedal twice and turned the key.
It fired up like nothing had ever happened. It roared to life, and heated up, boiling away spilled fluids and other random junk. Black smoke poured out of the tailpipe for the first minute, then disappeared alltogether. I revved the engine a couple timrs, and felt the vehicle twisting under its newfound strength, more so than before.
ITS ALIVE AND WELL!!! And it is all thanks to you guys. I seriously cant thank you enough. You helped keep my dream alive. I'm going to start it later once I patch the water pump leak, and film it for youtube, then post it here for you all to see what you helped me do
Well all the leaks are sealed but now theres another problem. I ran it through the break in period, and went to drive it down the road to check the transmission downshift cable and see what kinds of adjustments i would need to make, when what i think is the worst possible thing happened.
I eased down on the pedal til it shifted, and i felt it was too late, needed to come up a bit, but it didnt matter because when i let up the engine slowed a tiny bit and stalled. I drifted a couple hundred feet to a stop, where i put it in park and attempted to restart. Nothing. Checked gearshift. All good. Wire connections, all good. Listened for starter engaging. All good. Engine just wouldnt turn.
It sits in front of the garage now, locked up solid last I checked. What happened? Why would it lock up out of the blue like that after running so well? It wasnt overheated or anything. It just stopped after the stall. No indicator whatsoever. The stsrte ris strong still too, brand new starter. I put a breaker bar on the front bolt snd cant get the crank to turn at all. Im gonna take the flyeheel cover off and try to get it to move with some leverage and a screwdriver, but Im actually worried something may be wrong. What should i be looking for?
If it still won't turn with the plugs out, take out the bolts connected to the torque converter. This will separate the trans from the engine. Unbolt the starter as well. If it's still not turning, then you had something fail internally, which you can probably figure out what that means.
Just got on break, been thinking about this and thought about the tranny only to get beaten by the Dr. Lol
if it doesn't work I'm very interested to know the out come......
I presented the same question to my coworkers at advance auto parts, and they all said the same thing, pull the plugs and try it.
Is it just because its newly built and has strong compression? I'm not understanding fully how i could have turned it easily prior to the rebuild and now its impossible without pulling the plugs.
One guy called it hydrolocked.. not sure what that is, will have to research when i get off work.
Last edited by Aerizanthar; 08-10-2017 at 01:21 PM.
I've just researched it my self for the first time as I have heard this phrase touted around before. Could be ok , the nature in which you were driving and it happened I'd still be optimistic. How it hydro locked , fuel or water is what we need to know by removing the plugs and turning the engine to pump it out.
Pulled the plugs and tried it, nothing came out. I cant turn it with the front bolt and a breaker bar becaus the bolt just keeps turning, may be stripped or damaged. I can however turn it with a prybar in the flywheel teeth, but it takes some effort. I spun it one full cycle, tried to start it with same result, no luck.. I need a list of things that could cause pressure and resist turning the engine, theres too much friction somewhere from something and I dont have much money left to work with.
Here is a list of what I know, prefaced by what happened.
Engine speed was accelerated briefly to 4800rpm. When engine slowed back down, engine slowed to a stop. No bangs, loud noises, or other events associated with sudden seizure, was more like someone applied a brake to the engine itself. Engine will not turn over on its own now, starter clicks and engages with the flywheel, and lets out a very high pitched whine as it tries to turn it, but does not have strength to turn it, indicating engine cannot turn. Prybar in flywheel allows me to turn engine by hand, but there is great resistance behind the effort. There is now a slight coolant leak on the driver side cylinder head that eas not present prior to event. I feel this was caused by an attempted fire during power stroke that damaged and blew the gasket.
bearing oil clearance was checked and was good st time of assembly
all bearings, rings, and lifters were checked for clearance, all checked out
engine rotated by hand extremely easily prior to installation of pistons.
as each piston was installed, engine turnover became increasingly difficult due to friction between piston rings and cylinder walls
water pump turns freely
all belts are still installed at this moment
alternator turns freely
power steering turns freely
flywheel is not warped
transmission is not locked up
oil pressure was optimal
temperatures were below any critical levels
camshaft turned freely
distributor turned freely
valve lash was assumed to be correct, followed manufacturers instructions
valves were not checked, but appeared to be in working order
my current analysis is that something expanded, came out of place or alignment, or otherwise became wedged/bent in a manner that has caused the engine to no longer turn freely. There is just too much friction. My current list of things to check are as follows..
I can't contribute much to troubleshooting in this but All I can say is best of luck man, you'll figure it out and that 2nd test drive will be even sweeter
It's likely going to be something associated with the crankshaft; rod or main bearing, something like that. If it was a valve, you'd likely be able to roll the engine over until it hit a valve if it dropped, then turn it the opposite direction to back away from it. Here are a couple things that stand out to me:
1. Sounds like you stripped out the crankshaft or bolt holding the harmonic balancer on if it just turns.
2. You said you briefly accelerated to 4800 RPM. Was this a quick hard acceleration, like jumping on the gas? You could have spun a bearing since it is such a fresh engine.
3. What were your clearance measurements on everything? Did you write any of it down or just went by feel and figured it was close enough? Rod bearing clearance, main bearing clearance, piston ring gap (did you properly gap the rings), etc.
And sounds like the balancer bolt is stripped. If the crank threads are stripped beyond the point where a tap will clean them up, you may still be able to salvage the crank by installing a heli-coil or a Time-Sert.
I will be pulling it tonight. I used plastigage when installing the bearings and looked up clearance numbers, everything was within the specified parameters so i went with it and tossed the paperwork.. my mistake there.
I plan to get a new bolt today, the old one is pretty chewed up.
as far as gapping the rings..... I just folloeed the instructions on how to install them. Snapped em onto the piston, made sure the gaps were positioned at the right places, compressed em and dropped em into place. If there is more to it, then I missed it. I compressed em and dropped em into the bores to check and make sure the size was right before installing them too.
I have to agree though that it is most likely a bearing.
I didnt jump on the gas per say, more gently pressed down until transmission shifted from detent cable being pulled on. It was about a 10 second process before the transmission geared up, and as soon as it did, i let off. Thats when it stalled.
Being an 83, I wouldn't imagine it's a metric bolt. If there are any threads left on it, you should be able to take it down to a fastenal or similar and have them match one for you. Don't get some random bolt out of a bin from Lowes though, make sure it's the right kind of strength bolt.
Edit: I found it's a 7/16-20 grade 8 bolt, just not sure on the length, you should be able to match that up though.
06-08-2017, 02:19 PM
I have no doubt you'll figure it out, it took me months to get my 2.8 running, replacing things left and right, when the only problem was the ECM's power wire being disconnected at the battery 
😀🍻 
