miacamaro305

hey guys one quick question okay when u take out the stock cam and u are ready to put the lt1 cam in is there a certain way the cam has to go in due to the fact u put the motor on top dead center or u just put it in how ever?

vwdave

Put it in however. I put the pulley on, lined it up, pulled it back off, and put it on with the chain.

Pretty straight forward.

miacamaro305

ohh okay so the comes is just basicall line it up so that the sprocket gos on right .how much or diffrence do u see from this cam?

vwdave

I went with the LT4. I donno, I put the cam in the 350 while it was on the stand awaiting to be installed.

One more thing, take the pin out of the cam, and cut a chunk off where it comes out of the gear.

Trust me.

miacamaro305

what pin and what chunk?

vwdave

The dots on the crank sprocket and the cam sprocket. They have to be facing each other. The crank facing up on TDC #1, and the Cam at the bottom.

There is a guide pin that sticks out of the cam, it helps with sprocket alignment. Its too long for the older V8's. When you dont cut it, and try to put the timing cover back on, its gonna hit.

AJ_92RS

No.

If you put the #1 piston at TDC, then the dots should both be at 12 o'clock.

That seems to be a common mistake because someone showed the easiest way to line up the dots. The easy way isn't always the correct way.

When you line them up with cam at 6 o'clock and the crank at 12 o'clock, you're lining up the lobes for the #6 piston to fire.

I never knew that until RB came along. Then again I never swapped a cam in a car. The engine was always on a stand.

After we put the engines in the car, that's when we did the 'finger over the hole' trick to line up the dissy. We wouldn't have to do that if we knew about the dots before hand.

miacamaro305

so both dots facing up correct?

brodyscamaro

crank at 12 o'clock
cam at 6 o'clock

miacamaro305

you guys told me that if you put the cam at 6 and the crank at 12 the cam is wrong so you told both at 12 o-clock correct?

vwdave

No, YOUR wrong.

Thats the way the 82-92 Camaro service manual told me to do it.

Also, its common sense.

25THRSS

the crank is at 12 oclock, the cam is at 6 oclock.

RIGHT
O <--cam
.
.
O <--crank


WRONG
.
O <--cam
.
O <-- crank

brodyscamaro

Do it the way that pic tells ya...

SlowMaro

i second or third that, 6 oclock, 12 oclock, manual says so..

and might i add for some odd *** reason i flipped through the manual RIGHT before i was going to take the cam out, and saw how they were supposed to be lined up. thank *** for esp or whatever, cause i didnt even notice the dots and would have been screwed!

goes to show, read as much as possible before any mod.

AJ_92RS

I don't give a flying f__k WHAT books say. They tell you the EASY way to install the cam and line up the dots. If you choose to do it that way you HAVE to rotate the crank 360* (cam 180*) in order for the #1 piston to be on the compression stroke @ TDC.

Here are pics to show you what I mean.

In this pic my cam gear AND crank gear at 12 o'clock. You can't see the crank dot because it has a zero barely stamped onto it. No dot. But since everyone of you are such experts, you should know that the cam gear can't be at 12 o'clock unless the crank gear is also.

AJ_92RS

Here's a pic of the #1 lifters.

As you can see they're level. That means they're both closed. That means the #1 piston is @ TDC on the compression stroke.

AJ_92RS

Here's a pic of the #6 lifters.

As you can see from the arrow, the intake valve is up higher. That means it's open. The #6 piston IS NOT on the compression stroke.

As you all should know (by heart), the firing order is

1-8-4-3
6-5-7-2

Look what's directly opposite of the #1 cylinder. #6

So...

You can do it the right way, or the book way. It's up to you.

SlowMaro

i did it the cars way, lined them up before i took the cam out, and put it back in the exact way it came out

not a problem when i fired it up, adjusted the valved, fixed the timing, and i was off.

if only my head swap were so easy and flawless

AJ_92RS

Ya know what. You're right about that. If the dots are at 6 o'clock and 12 o'clock when you pull the cam then that'll work.

The reason I want to make sure people understand what I'm saying is because the normal procedure is the bring the #1 piston to TDC, then remove the dist after marking the rotor's location in the dist and/or firewall.

If you do it your way before you pull the dist. it'll work fine. You just have to make sure you drop the dist in to fire on the #6 cylinder.

Momar

If you plan on setting the valves the book way then the book way for installing the cam works fine and it is easier to line them up when they are facing each other than both at 12 o'clock. The reason for this is that if you put it in with them facing each other and then set the first half of the valves and then turn it over 360 degrees and set the second half you have it at #1 tdc and have your valve lash set. If you start with both at 12 o'clock you will have to turn it over again after that. If you plan on setting the valves with it running though you are better off with them both at 12 o'clock and just leave it there.

Ben

SlowMaro

yea, i mean by the looks of it, ..theres two right ways, the book way, and whatever way you feel comfortable doing it.

by all means take the way you think you know best, and stick with that, dont start changing your ways now *if they work* just because one of us said do it differently.

i have a theory. which proved wrong this one time, but if something comes off one way, it goes back on the same way....unless you seriously modify something.

miacamaro305

okay crank at 12 and cam at 6 thats how im going to do it and then look at my pushrods make sure everything is correct and bolt everything back up at crank it

vwdave

Well, you seem to know more than the people who made the book on the ****ing car based on what GM told them.

miacamaro305

lol yep i guess some people think they do?

TonyC

iTrader: (1)

just read the instructions on the timing chain set...not hard guys..some manufacturers make things different

MrDude_1

heh.


ok. the cam moves at exactly half the speed of the crank.

so if you lined them up dot to dot and rotated the crank 360* they would both be at 12.




the reasons most engine builders set them dot to dot:

1. easiest to accuratly line up.
2. you dont have to rotate then engine right away when you set the lifters.
3. if the #1 cyl has the valves closed at the top of the compression stroke, you can drop in the distrib with it sitting on the #1 wire and you are very close to your timing mark. the engine should run.


now you CAN put the cam 180* out.. but there is no good reason to.. and if you do, just turn the motor over and it will be set the other way.


i say, unless you have done enough that you dont think you need any books ( pro engine builders that do 1000s still use books to make sure they didnt miss anything) i would just do it by the book, mearly because it makes it step by step and easier for a person that hasnt done it as much.. they dont have to think about where everything is inrelation to where the book thinks it is.

Momar

Well... what he said is right and it would be better if you are planning on setting the valves with the motor running instead of with it not because you can just leave it there once you put the cam in instead of turning it over to install the dist. Either way works, it really just depends on how you plan on doing things which way would be more effecient for you. You can set them either way and it does the same thing because if you set it either way and turn the crank 360 degrees the it will be the other way because the crank turns once everytime the crank turns twice.

Also in all honesty, who's to say that you cant find a better way to do something than what was written in a book. Just because it was put in a book that makes it the better way and there is no other way to do it??? Is that it? If you talk to someone thats been working on cars for a long time they will tell you that the book doesnt alway tell you the most effecient way of doing things.

Ben

MrDude_1

fixed what you ment.


and about the book thing. thats true... but you also have to have worked on cars long enough to realize whats happening with the motor so that you can make a informative decision like that.

thats why noobs should stick to a good book, and people with experiance can stray.

in anycase the whole thing is pointless if you know that its one way or the other, and you know A (there is no "the") proper way to set the valve lash.

Momar

Whoops. Thanks. I agree, that if you are doing it for the first time I would go with the book just so you have instructions the whole way, I was just trying to state that just because AJ doesent have a book out with his meathod in it that doesnt mean it is wrong. LOL

Ben

AJ_92RS

OK. Scratch everything I said thus far. I'll write it another way.

For changing a cam in a car, pull the timing cover off, then rotate the crank so the dot on the cam gear is at 6 o'clock and the crank gear is at 12 o'clock.

Pull out old cam, install new with cam gear at 6 o'clock and crank gear at 12 o'clock.

Set #6 piston to EXACT TDC.
(DO NOT rely on the cam dot being at 6 o'clock as #6 piston @ TDC :nono: It isn't. Use the timing mark. Put the timing cover and damper back on if you must.)

Set these valves...

#3 Intake valve

#5 Exhaust valve

#7 Exhaust valve

#2 Exhaust valve

#4 Intake valve

#6 Exhaust valve

#6 Intake valve

#8 Intake valve

Rotate the crank 360* so the #1 piston is at TDC.

Then set these valves

#1 Exhaust valve

#1 Intake valve

#3 Exhaust valve

#5 Intake valve

#7 Intake valve

#2 Intake valve

#4 Exhaust valve

#8 Exhaust valve

If you marked the dist with the rotor pointing at #6, then you'll have to rotate the crank another 360*.

If you did not mark the dist, you can just drop it in to fire at #1, then you won't have to rotate the crank again (Momar's idea )

My only reason for telling anyone this is because ALL books I've read fail to tell you that lining up the dots at 6 o'clock and 12 o'clock put the #6 piston on the compression stroke. Nowhere do they tell you to turn the crank 360* (cam 180*) to get the #1 piston at TDC. Therefore A LOT of people assume #1 is already at TDC. After all, the #1 piston is what everything else revolves around, as far as specs are concerned.

AAMOF, I'll bet 90% of the people who post "Installed new cam, now car runs bad" or "... won't start" have the timing 180* out because "the book" didn't tell them EVERYTHING they needed to know.

miacamaro305

what u meant by setting the vavles was to bolt down the rockers at torque right?what is the torque the rockers nut takes?

miacamaro305

how do u set the vavles?

Dewey316

to set the valve lash, you tighten the rocker down until there is resistance on the pushrod (zero lash) i do this by spinning the pushrod, and SLOWLY tightening the rocker down, until i feel just the slightest resistance again the pushrod. from there i tighten and extra 1/2 turn. some say 3/4 turn, some say 1/4 turn, it just depends on who you talk to.

miacamaro305

ohh well now im ready to do my cam swap one problem no money and no cam lol well im gonna buy the cam next month so by 2 months i have the cam done so post it back up thanks alot guy ur all lifesavers:hail: