ssxmac

iTrader: (1)

Ok, definitly a noob here. How do you advance the timing in our cars? Does it have to be done by burning new chips or is there some way to do it manually?

How much performance will i gain by advancing the timing, and by how much? what are the risks?
thanks upfront
-chuck

AJ_92RS

The timing tab is mounted to the timing chain cover, right behind the water pump. If it isn't there, then it's either been removed or fell off, or someone's changed the timing chain cover.

Disconnect the coil wire from the distributor.

Once you find the timing mark on the balancer, crawl under the car and have a buddy tap the starter to rotate the engine until you see a groove on the balancer that's about 1/8"-3/16" deep. Use white paint or a white crayon to fill in the groove so it's easy to see.

Hook the coil wire back to the distributor, and unhook the ESC connector. It's located near the blower motor on the passenger side firewall. It'll be the brown wire sticking out of a black wire loom. Just separate the connector and leave it sit.

Attach the red connector to the positive ("+" or red) terminal on the battery, and the black connector to the negative ("-" or black) on the battery.

Hook up the timing light using the inductive pickup to the #1 sparkplug wire. It's the one that's on the driver's side of the engine, closest to the radiator.

Loosen the distributor hold down bolt just enough that it takes a little effort to be able to rotate the distributor either clockwise or counter clockwise.

Start the engine and aim the timing gun straight down between the water pump and the engine block. Look for the groove in the balancer.

A stock LO3 should be set at 0* BTDC. The groove should be lined up to the first "V" on the timing tab (the one closest to the driver's side). If not, rotate the distributor one way or the other until it is. At this point ignore the other "V' grooves.

Turn the engine off and tighten the dist. hold down bolt. Start the car and check the timing again to be sure the dist. didn't move while you were tightening the hold-down bolt. If so, correct it.

Once you're done, turn off the car and hook the ESC wire back together. Take it for a drive and see it that feels better.

ssxmac

iTrader: (1)

Is it possible to advance timing by burning a new chip? that seems like a lot of work to go through if its possible to change w/ a computer.
thanks already im much more enlightened!
-chuck

AJ_92RS

A lot of work? It takes a whole 10 minutes.

You can only change the timing curve with the chip. You can bring the advance in sooner on the RPM scale, but you can't just bump the advance at TDC. That's done mechanically.

It requires work. That darn "work" word again.

ssxmac

iTrader: (1)

well ill have to look at it. This is my first car so most of this is new to me, and that just seemed like a lot. if people can do it in 10 min, then i guess i could prolly do it. how much would you reccomend advancing it? the whole car is stock right now, i guess im asking how far is too far.
thanks again
-chuck

AJ_92RS

Until you get a scanner of some sort (like WinALDL) to do a knock count, I wouldn't advance it at all.

Just make sure the base timing is set to 0* BTDC with the EST unplugged.

You can alter it with the help of either a g-tech or by going to the dragstrip. Advance it 2* at a time, make a run, look at your MPH (not ET). Continue until you lose MPH, then put it back to the previous setting.

ssxmac

iTrader: (1)

I dont know what most of these achronym's are, would you like to enlighten me or is there a site i can read to to get more details?

AJ_92RS

WinALDL - AFAIK, It's a free program which allows you to diagnose your ECM in real time. You can find out how to get it by visiting the DIY PROM board.

BTDC - Before Top Dead Center

EST - Electronic Spark Timing

MPH - Miles per Hour

ET - Elapsed Time

Based on what you've said about not knowing the acronyms, I'm assuming you don't know any of these?

MAP - Manifold absolute pressure

IAC - Idle air control

IAT - Intake air temp

TPS - Throttle position sensor

ESC - Electronic spark control

O2 - Oxygen sensor

VSS - Vehicle speed sensor

CTS - Coolant temp sensor

RPM - Revolutions per minute

VATS - Vehicle anti-theft system

EGR valve - Exhaust gas recirculation


And that's all I can think of off the top of my head that are ECM related.

There's also TQ - HP - TC - LSD - SFC - RWHP

IMHO, you shouldn't be thinking of messing with programming a chip if you don't have any idea what those things mean.

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

You really cannot ask for much better description than that. That is dead on. If you are a newby I would print that out and save it. You won't find a better step by step instruction. Nice job Aj! I was able to paint the groove on my balancer from under the hood. I was lucky and it was right on top. Also I had to use some sandpaper attached to the end of a screw driver to scrap off the rust on the timing tab. It is really far down there and kinda hard to read if it is dirty. I recomend cleaning it. When I first did the timing on my car, I thought the tab was "blind" and just had the points with no numbers. Once I cleaned it I was set.

Dewey316

You forgot

BLM - Block Lean Multipler
INT - Integrer
PW - Pulse Width
AE - Accell enrichment
PE - power enrichment
Delta(insert many diffent things) - Change in something

ect. there are ALOT of them

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

Slightly off subject and I may sound dumb, but the only acronym I don't get is BOP as for supras and other turbo set ups. What does that stand for and what does it mean.

ssxmac

iTrader: (1)

Yea, im probally going to be changing heads and intake, and possibly cam this winter. So im going to be doing tons and tons of reading on proms. Ill have a couple of months to get educated on that. Thanks, for the step by step, it is very through (sp?). Ill be giving it a shot soon, my dad said he did it on his old TA all the time so ill get him to help. Thanks again guys, you're awsome. Time to go install the new water pump!
-chuck

25THRSS

Do you mean BPU? BPU just means basic performance upgrades, which is like bolt ons to us. You know, up the boost, exhaust, intake, etc. Hopefully that's what you meant.

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

That is exactly what I wanted to know, and yes BPU not BOP. I just couldn't think of it at the time. Man that was an easy one and I couldn't figure it out Phew, you don't know how long I went before I asked because i thought I could figure it out. Seems like they only say that amount imports.

25THRSS

lol, I didn't know that one either until I found out by reading about a supra kill on one of the LS1 forums.

AJ_92RS

NO!!!!!!!!

I didn't "forget" any of those.

You can't for forget something you don't know.

I honestly don't know those. Chip burning is just something I never investigated much. For one, I don't have a laptop to use WinALDL with. Two, I'm too stupid.

Thank you Shifty for you're compliment. It's nice to be appreciated every once in a while *tears forming in eyes*

BTW,

BOP - Buick, Oldsmobile, Pontiac

brodyscamaro

for literally years i have wondered that.... i feel so smart now

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

Ah good, I am glad other people had the same question as me. Phew, I don't feel so dumb now. Anyways I always read this in the LS1 forum and never on here or at camaroz28.com. I did know that BOP was buick olds and pontiac but thought it had a new school conotation. The only other one that I don't quite get is DMS or DSM er somthing, refering to eclipses I think.

brodyscamaro

Yup, good ole' Diamond Star Motors - I have known that one since a buddy got a 91 GSX.....

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

Brody, you are the man. I can sleep well tonight as well. Score I am now a acronym ****.

brodyscamaro

thanks

but if you want to make the DSM people mad just tell them that after watching DSM's drive around for a few years now you thought it stood for "Damn Smoking Motors"

ehe heheh i know about that one....

92rsv8

ahhh but do you know what a gtr is...??? the real gtr not some crap ***** with a chrome gtr emblem??

brodyscamaro

Nope

grad touring racer

sh*t i dont know

JPrevost

JUST FOR FUN, see how many you understand.
Your BLMs look a little high but the INT is stable which brings me to your x-counts, they suck. Forget about BPU, your car needs some TLC, IMHO. Your AE async PW in PE over delta T has no time to fire @ that RPM resulting in lower ET yet average MPH. I'd check your dizzy and set it to anything BTDC <8, and if that doesn't work, the EST might need looked at because of those run away PA3s which would result in those x-counts being low over delta T. It's odd because your BSFC should be really good and allow you to run that much SA with that octane! Just watch your BMEP and IMEP if you can. You might as well check your TPS because your IAC looks dead, and don't forget the CTS, IAT/MAT, and ECM. Those c3's are 70's stuff compared to the 80's technology of the p4's. Too bad only TBI's with p4's needed a 4L60e or 4L80e or we would have more ALDL baud, RAM, and EPROM to source code. Stupid TPI getting all the publicity, then MPFI, and now SFI with CNP and even COP, damn it's all moving too fast. I thought it was bad enough HEI took a back seat to CDI (no more points is a good thing, no more CAP issues with key on) and what crap was that Optispark BS, WSI was more reliable! Good thing our HEI CPS is on the dizzy and is a RP and not a HE.
I'll tell you what is exciting, IRS in the new GTO. One bust technology is the CVT, I just don't like, reminds me of a loose TC only more complex and expensive to produce for cars making lots of HP. One last rant, blast the ISO, just look at our cars, half metric half standard, damn!
So.... it's probably a good thing I'm an SAE member and work at OSU's C.A.R. facility or I wouldn't know half of what I just said.

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

i gotta get me one of them so i can stick my 305 with a tbi in my blazer. Meaning to do that for the longest time so i can do away with the CPI. BTW, what pcms do the CPIs come with?

Dewey316

i got most of it Jon

BADAZZ71

in regards to the abv.: BOP regarding turbo supras, it's probly the turbo Blow Off Pressure.

AJ_92RS

More than likely it was BOV

Blow Off Valve

That's what relieves the boost as soon as you let off the pedal. It's placed in the intake tract that is connected from the turbo/supercharger to the throttle body/carb.

Cadillac

I'll go with that as the answer that took 3 months to find.

MikeDirntRulez

Amen. That got bookmarked into my "LT1 Cam swap" bookmark folder along with millions of other threads from Shifty.

P.S. I finally bought the cam.... now I need to buy everything else before I get started on it.

M1tch

Whats the average HP/ TQ it has gave some of you guys?

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

You don't really see any power gains. What you do feel is better throttle response and a slight increase in your fuel mileage. Going to far will have adverse effects. Swirl port heads don't necessitate a lot of initial advance.

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

Old thread. Since then weve learned: The P6 pcm works with both CPI and TBI, it can be used with other transmissions as well as manuals, and the PCM in my blazer and the TBI PCMs are one and the same and all I needed was to burn a chip and tweak the harness to convert it over to TBI. And, winALDL will soon give way to lockers for alot of people.

Not only that, but Ive also learned that they now make exhaust tips to give the fake BOV sound to ***** boy posers. Yeah, Im sure your Toyota Tercel has a turbo in it... Even if it did, it would still be slow.

Zion

if i have a laptop and winadl, what else do i require to hook up to my ecm?

dimented24x7

iTrader: (2)

Just need the cable and your good to go. If the laptop has a standard serial port you should have little trouble using the homemade cable.

There is also a cable with an ALDL connector + converter available from moates.net for use with USB, but it runs around 80 dollars.

Zion

i dont have a serial connection on the laptop. so ill need the usb one then?

Abird4u2nv1

iTrader: (-1)

WOW.

Talk about getting off subject, damn.

Zion

YOU'RE OFF TOPIC!

MikeDirntRulez

YOU CANT HANDLE OFF TOPIC SOLDIER!

Zion

Ron U.S.M.C.

I LOVE that kind of input !!!

3rdHXCGen

if you change your timing will you have to use a higher octane fuel and will you pass smog with a different timing

xRIPPINx

(I don't know how old this thread is) but when I went to time my 91 305 tbi firebird, I did all the steps above but when I went to check the timing again with the EST plugged in it showed the timing was advanced 10*+ off the timing tab. What could cause this????? With base timing set at 0*why would it advance the timing so far??? sensor problem?? Also car smokes on start up but goes away quickly (different problem to be dealt with later) but it smoked like a freight train while setting the timing...

Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

ShiftyCapone

iTrader: (7)

When the EST is plugged back in the ECM is adding timing. Thats why you set it with the EST unplugged, as to remove any communication with the ECM to dial in the base (to which the ECM adds from there).

Smoke on start up that goes away after a bit is due to worn valve seals. Oil is getting past them until the engine heats up and they swell a little. The seals are cheap but labor is a pain.

xRIPPINx

Thanks, but should the car be running that far advance? I knew the car was advancing the timing by itself but i didnt see that far advance to be very good for it. Right now it has a slightly rough idle because i retarded the timing to about 4* advance with the EST plugged in. I dont want the car damaging itself due to a bad senor throwing the timing off. Sometime over the summer i plan to freshen up my heads and have them ported while making sure my intake is sealed on good, plus plugs and wires (ive already replaced cap, rotor, bad egr valve, and intake gasket) the intake gasket might not have sealed all the way for we replaced it in the middle of winter (dumb) but its definitely better than before lol..

AJ_92RS

xRIPPINx,

Since you brought this up from the dead, I can too. LOL

If you haven't already, you need to set the base timing, with the EST unplugged, back to 0*.

10* advanced isn't very much base timing at all. My '71 Camaro with HEI (the old mechanical advance kind) likes the base timing set at 14*BTDC. Then I plug the vacuum advance in and it's even higher while cruising. It doesn't change at idle because I use the ported vacuum port on the carb, but if I used manifold vacuum it would be equivalent to what the ECM is doing to your car.

AAMOF, I did what you did back when I had my '91 RS. It was about 40 degrees outside that day so the engine was advancing the timing a lot to keep the car warm and running smooth. The timing, at idle, was 44* BTDC.

pvr007

iTrader: (1)

soo... i set my timing to 6 advanced with the timing cable disconnected... then re connected it.... was i supposed to leave it at 0 then reconect then advance it? thanks