Hey, does anyone know if our TBI manifold will bolt up to these heads? One thing i noticed while looking at them on www.paceparts.com, is that vortec style manifolds will bolt up to them. If these heads won't work can someone give me some part numbers of good heads that will? I'm looking for heads that have the bigger 2.02/1.6 valve sizes, are good quality and produce a respectable amount of horsepower.

 

they are pretty good heads, excellant for a stock casting. BUT!!!! in a side by side comparison in one of the magazines a whiel ago a set of vortec heads actually made more hp out of the same combo. which is amazing when you consider that the vortecs are about half the price of the fast burns.

later
tim

 

You can either use the pre-86 or Vortec style intake because they are designed to use both.

Think about this though: Basically the Fastburn heads are Vortec heads. What you are paying for is a aluminum Vortec head that has been finished like an aftermarket head (not as cast like a factory casting ie. L31 Vortec), upgraded valve springs and the larger LT4 2.00"/1.55" valves. Ok so if you upgrade the valve springs on the Vortecs and finish the ports and bowls up, you've saved lots of money matching the Fastburns; the only things you dont have is the weight savings of aluminum and the slightly larger valves. It's something to think about for sure....

 

fastburns really aren't "aluminum vortecs"

intake port size:
fastburn: 210cc
vortec: 170cc

valve size:
fastburn: 2.00/1.55
vortec: 1.94/1.50

rocker studs:
fastburn: screw in, factory helicoiled
vortec: pressed in, unpinned

chamber size:
fastburn: 62cc
vortec: 64cc

plug configuration:
fastburn: angle plugs
vortec: straight plugs

lift limit:
fastburn: ??? (> 0.550)
vortec: 0.480

valve covers:
fastburn: perimeter or center bolt
vortec: center bolt only

just wanted to make sure everyone is aware of some of the differences.

 

Fast burns and Iron Vortecs are totally different heads. Different cumbustion chamber and port shape and size, different plug angle, different valve size, etc (see 91L98Z28's post).

Iron Vortecs are designed for low and mid range, and would work better with the TBI system. Fast burns (by the way, totally revised and new castings arrived quietly in April 2002!) are for High mid range and top end. These will not work well with either TBI or TPI, as they are both designed for lower RPM operation. Match your parts' RPM designs, or you will be wasting your money.

Also incorrect is that you can run pre-86 manifolds. Even if they had the bolt holes for them (they don't) the intake ports are tall enough that the older style manifolds will not cover them. This is true of both Vortec iron and Fast Burn heads.

If you like the TBI system, I would suggest looking into the Iron Vortec heads, and a Vortec 2 bbl manifold to mount your TBI to. I have not done this, but it seems the best compromise between cost and improved efficiency.

Good luck

 

Any more info you can provide on this?

 

Just to concur with TA on the fact that non intakes will not work with the fastburns. It is true the fastburns are drilled for both intake bolt patterns. However the raised intake ports will not work with standard non vortec intakes. The only option might be a raised port intake of some kind might bolt up. Best to check to be sure. I know this first hand as back in the summer I bolted on my new fastburns while waiting for the HSR to arrive. When it showed up and feel right into the galley and left over a quarter of an inch of intake port showing. Hence the fuel injection went out the window and it is now carbed.

 

Before I start with anything, just to let you know myself and a few others had the chance to compare these heads side by side.
The combustion chamber's are identical between these two heads. The only real difference is the spark plug placement because of the angled plug; and really at that when you look at them they seem to be the identical. We measured both combustion chambers with graduated cylinders and they both were 62cc's. L31 Vortec's are advertised as 64cc, but I bet most are 62cc like the one's we had. Yes intake runners are larger on the Fast burns and have been CNC finished with gentle massaged curves which is where it gains so much more airflow than the as-factory cast Vortec's. I already stated in my previous post that the valves were larger in the Fast Burns.

The Vortec's aren't really designed for low/mid range; it's just the way they are finished compared to the Fast Burn's. The higher intake volume and properly finished ports create a higher powerband (not that much higher though) over the Vortecs. Finish a set of Vortecs like the Fast Burns have been properly done and you will see the exact same results.

Our set of Fast Burns were double drilled for either Vortec or pre-86 intake bolt patterns. Maybe this is a new thing to have them only drilled for one pattern (which one are they drilled for then? I don't research these things on the internet so I have no clue) You're right though that the old intake's runners will probably not match the updated runner design of these two heads. We used an Edelbrock Victor Vortec in our dyno tests.

 

any change you'd have some pictures of both chambers side by side to compare them? not that i doubt you, just that i think it would be most interesting to see.

 

None of us took pics during the engine dyno runs. I might have some pics on CD-RW's of these heads that I might have by chance saved from somewhere; Ill have to look.

 

You can look at pictures of the heads on the GMPP website. Can't remember if it shows the combustion chambers but it shows the intake and exhaust ports of both and has an explanation of both. The fast burn story is a short novel, but interesting reading. BTW GMPP is having a sale on the heads until the end of November. The Vortecs are $245 each and the Fastburns are about $560 each complete and ready to install. Either way they're great heads for a good price.

 

sdpc is also having a sale on the heads too. The vortecs are $228 and the fastburns are $550 I think.

 

Iroc22 is there any chance you could post the dyno results? I would be interested as I am using the Fastburns and the same Victor Jr. Vortec intake.

 

The Fastburns made 425hp and a little over 400ft-lbs of torque, 405 IIRC. We used a Comp Cams LT1 roller cam with 210/220 dur and .500/.510" lift and a 800cfm 4150 Holley. I wanted to try some MPFI systems on there but I wasn't running the dyno test and there weren't any MPFI systems just sittin around anyway. Oh yeah and 1 5/8 long tube headers.

 

Good power for such a small cam. do you have the results for the same engine with vortec heads?

 

IIRC, it was 400hp and 395ft-lbs of torque at slightly lower RPM's and it had a slightly smaller redline. And remember the Vortecs we tested were untouched except for larger valve springs to handle the extra lift.

 

impressive. i guess it's at least safe to say that both the vortecs and fastburns are pretty good heads.

 

They're amazing technology and it's clearly evident that they can make huge numbers....

 

Hopefully this will clear up the debate between out of the box vortecs vs fastburns. Tell me if I have this right. The fastburns you dynoed were right out of the box and the vortecs had the springs changed to accomodate the cam lift. If that is correct then the fastburns made 25hp more, right? If so then the fastburns are better than the vortec out of the box period. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

Hey guys. Thanks for all the posts. You've been helping a lot. I just had another question. The GMPP website says that LT4 style flanges must be used with their fastburn heads. Where the hell we supposed to find headers that'll not only fit the heads but fit in our cars? Also, i was looking at cylinder head prices at summitracing.com and they had 1000 dollars as the price for the heads. Is that price for one cylinder head or for a pair?

 

fastburns are about 1200 a pair.

they do have lt1 style exhaust ports. GM recommends you use an lt1 exhaust gasket, it matches the head exactly.

since very few hearders are made for lt1 motors in non-lt1 cars, you can either put lt1 flanges on other headers, or (what I did) elongate the holes in regular flanges so that you can lift the headers up about 1/4" on the exhaust ports (so that the raised D port matches with the header tube) and then grind as necessary on the header tube/flange area to sort of gasket match it. not the best solution but so far it's worked for me.

hooker i think is making their 1 5/8 d-port headers that work with these heads. i think pace parts or scoggin dickey carries them... i didn't use them because they don't make them for a 71 camaro stick (only automatic!!! )

 

Are trick flow heads any good?

 

search the archives for lots of opinions.

mine?

i'd run iron vortecs before trickflows.

 

I asked Hooker if they had a set of headers that would fit the D ports of the fastburns in a thirdgen. They suggested their 13/4 LT Super comp #2210's would be the closest fit.

 

they suggested the same thing to me when i asked. they have the regular flange though. the reason they probably work OK is because the tube is big enough that, even though it's not properly centered on the port, it still doesn't block the port. May still have to do a tiny bit of grinding, but in theory it should work (i made 1 5/8 headers w/ regular flanges work!)

 

What would be a good set of moderately priced heads to go with that would bolt up to our style intake/exhaust manifolds?

 

i use to have a jim pace catalog and by the fast burn heads was a small section about the d-port heads and that heddman made a set of jet- hot coated pair for about $169.95 long tube headers and i think they were 1 3/4 too.but dont quote me on that. thats Jim Pace performance warehouse.

 

Berlinetta,

IMO, the TFS 23d heads are one of the best bangs for the buck when dealing with early style intake manifolds. I am assuming a 350CID motor here since the heads come with 190cc runners. I have had them on my Xfire and they make excellent power. With a "small cam" 212/218 .520/.528, motor is putting out over 340hp@4800rpm and 430lbft @3800rpm.