84z28h.o.

So here's the deal...I just bought a 84 Z28 high output not too long ago. It has an electric fan that's hooked to a toggle. I ride with the fan on....that's what the seller told me to do.

Well, all isn't too swell. The coolant reservoir was pretty much dry as a bone, with barely any fluid at the bottom of it. The car started smoking so bad today....put coolant in and it boiled out of the reservior.

Got the car to my buddy's house...we took the radiator cap off and there was no fluid inside...and it is a brownish color, as well as in the reservoir. Which I am assuming is rust/scale.

Put some coolant into the radiator...all the way to the neck and turned the car on. The coolant got sucked up. Idle is very low....500rpm. The battery gauge was right at 13v when it was previously up probably about 15/16. I drive the car a bit....idle goes back to normal and the battery is up. THEN the car goes back to low idle and if the gas isn't pressed, the engine dies. Can't restart it unless I push the gas at the same time. Can this be caused by overheating??

I drive the car back to his house....have to start the car up at every stoplight or any time I have to stop.

I picked up some carb cleaner and some radiator flush, as well as new coolant. I'm going to replace the thermostat tomorrow and flush the radiator. Is there anything else I should check that would affect the car like this??

burnout88

Be sure to put on a new radiator cap

camaro430sut

iTrader: (2)

Is it loosing coolant after you filled it?

84z28h.o.

Well today was a total waste of 11 hours. I flushed the radiator, took the thermostat housing off....upon doing so, one of the bolts was so rusted that the head broke straight off of it.

I could not get it out for the life of me. Tried everything in the book...except for drilling it out completely and re-threading the hole. Vice grips didn't work, used a hell of a lot of PB Blaster...

Changed the thermostat out though, hooked up a new temp gauge and I caked on some RTV compound around the thermostat housing...leaked a bit, but nothing major.

Car smoked, which I am assuming the oil has gone bad since it overheated yesterday....going to change the oil tomorrow. The idle is off....it was up at 2000 - 2250 and I found that the throttle was sticking a bit near the carb, so I got that taken care of. Then the car wants to idle around 750, which I thought was damn perfect....it'll shoot up to 1500 or so, and stay for a while. The car has hesitations when driving, and a few second "delay" when at full throttle.

The temp was around 180 and then would climb to about 200....at one point it got up to 230 and I pulled over and shut the car off for a bit, and it went down to 190 and I went on my way. Got the car to my house and it was at 200...parked it and haven't started it up since.

It leaked a bit of antifreeze when I parked it....I am assuming it lost a good amount while driving.

Now, I am sure that once I get that bolt out of the head (at the thermostat housing) and replace it, the leak will go away....because that is the only place it is leaking from. I checked all the hoses, the radiator, etc. and there are no leaks. The coolant will run to the back of the engine and down, as well as to the front and down. But it is only leaking at the thermostat housing.

What I'm not sure about is the idle....I was thinking, maybe since the seal isn't good at all at the thermostat housing, the engine was losing pressure inside...or vacuum...or something. Which is very plausible. I've adjusted the idle screw, and it was idling between 750 and 1000 when I first did the flush and fill, etc.

I also cleaned the carb up and used seafoam in the carb....which I used seafoam on my other (now wrecked) car and it worked great...same white smoke came out of the exhaust, but that went away after a few minutes.

But anymore input would be appreciated. I'm just not sure if the leak at the thermostat housing would cause that hesitation and weird idle.

Rockguy

The best way to find out is to fix that problem first. You may need an extractor. You didnt knock a vacuum line off while working under there did ya?
I would definitely fix the thermostat bolt and change the oil like you plan. See what's happening after that

84z28h.o.

I checked the hoses and they were all connected...but there was one thing that I was stuck on and that was on the thermostat housing.

There are two plug ins there....one has a connecter that plugs into it, and that I was assuming was for the stock temp gauge. I took that piece out and put in my temp gauge in its place. Temp reads fine. Not sure if that was what it was for, but it made sense...it was a brass fitting, which also hinted at the temp sensor. Then there was another piece on the opposite side...which was broken, and had no hoses going to it.

It has a spring inside and there is a valve that has a nipple coming off of it...which I am assuming is where a vacuum hose goes. I just don't know what hose and where it goes to. It wasn't hooked up ever since I got the car, and the valve and spring come out (which it isn't supposed to)

I'm going to run up to a shop tomorrow and have them take care of the bolt for me. They will have the tools needed....or they could weld a nut to the top and use a socket to get it out, if need be.

I am 99% sure that getting that bolt taken care of will make the leak disappear. I am thinking the leak made the car temp spike earlier.

As for the oil...hopefully it will take care of something.

Jproz1167

iTrader: (3)

one of the holes in the thermostat housing is for the coolant temp sensor for the ECM not for the gauge ..... the other is for the EFE one vacumn line goes to the carb I believe but the other goes to a valve between the exhaust manifold and the Y-pipe on the passenger side

84z28h.o.

Well, I guess it's not a good thing that I took that sensor out then. I'll replace it tomorrow or whenever I have the chance. I'm not going to be driving the car until I get that bolt out.

The EFE was already unplugged...and like I said, the hoses going from the aircleaner and everything were already plugged up...I guess they wanted to get rid of all the emissions stuff.

Where would the temp gauge go then, since it doesn't go in the thermostat housing?

Jproz1167

iTrader: (3)

temp sensor is in drivers side head between #1 & #3 spark plug. if the ecm is functioning yea without the coolant sensor that would explain it not running good.

SageMoonblade

Ummmm is it smoking all the time or just part of it. If its smoking white or grey really bad to have a head gasket problem or a cracked head.

84z28h.o.

I understand that the sensor could cause it to run weird...but the thing is, it was starting up then dieing after a few seconds, before I even took the sensor off. This morning I started it then it died. When I push the gas, it doesn't want to rev and after I push the gas a few times, then it'll rev normal. After that, the idle is at 1500rpm.

It does not smoke all the time. I used seafoam which is supposed to clean the carbon out and all that. It smoked white just like my 98 Accord did when I used it.

I'll look for the temp sensor so I can get the new gauge working. Will replace the coolant sensor that I took out, as well.

Rockguy

Keep us informed

84z28h.o.

Just took it out for a drive down the road earlier. I think the carb float is sticking or something....it isn't getting enough gas on startup and the first few revs.

Still idles at 1500.

Also, the temp gauge was cold then it shot up to 240 fast...then I got back home and turned the car off. There was steam coming from the engine bay. Popped the hood and it was coming from the thermostat housing. Could hear the steam coming out....hissing sound. I know it is because the seal isn't good. The cooling system IS losing pressure. I have to get that bolt out somehow.

Going to go at it tomorrow since I am off of work...going to backflush the system as well.

Ordered a TPS that is going to be in around noon tomorrow. Hopefully that fixes the idle. Going to take the carb off and clean it well.

Rockguy

You can buy extractors or try this extractor tool to get that bolt out.

http://www.aldn.com/grabit/

84z28h.o.

Well I couldn't get the bolt out so I just drilled the crap out of it until it was all out. Put a bigger sized bolt in, and now it doesn't leak from the housing.

Backflushed the system and a lot of nasty gunk came out....I'm still having an idle problem. I don't think it's the TPS...it will idle normal at times, low at times, high at times...then die. Could be the TPS but I was thinking it might be the carb not getting enough fuel or something.

I sprayed carb cleaner in it and it didn't help that much. I was thinking maybe get a kit and change out the needles and jets, but I don't want to mess it up.

blackandgoldl69

i also have a 1984 camaro z28 Ho and mine also idles at 500 i dont know if this is normal or not but i just tought i would let you know.also i have to pump the gas like 3 times before startup and then it will kick up to like 1500 and will stay there for a min to warm up and then drop to 500 also my battery meter does the same thing it will sit at like 500 if you give it some gas it will go back to 14 volts though.also do u have any pics of your car i love 84 z28s.

84z28h.o.

Actually what yours does is almost normal....mine is whacked out.

Sometimes it'll start without giving it gas, but then it dies right away. Sometimes I have to give it gas and it'll start to die so I'll give it more gas and it'll hesitate and only go to a certain rpm...then I have to rev it a few more times to get it to rev to 5k or so. Then after that, sometimes it will idle at 1500, sometimes it'll die.

I backflushed the cooling system earlier and then took the car out for a spin. When the car was in gear, the rpm's were normal...when the clutch was pushed in, the idle went to 2000. At a stopsign or light, idle was at 2000. Put it in first gear and didn't even have to touch the gas and it went on it's own.

I was messing with the idle screw earlier, and it could be that I screwed it in all the way. But with it normal, the car doesn't stay running for long. So I'm not sure if it's a carb or TPS issue.

84z28h.o.

OK, so another problem...sorta.

I got the temp gauge put in...temp is right around 190 or so. Go driving and it's 200. It will creep up to 225-230 then shoot back down to 200. It'll stay at 200 for a bit, then creep back up. It doesn't matter if I'm flooring it or driving it at 1500rpm. I was wondering why it does this....I don't know why it would be 200 then all of a sudden shoot up then back down again. Faulty gauge, or....????

Another thing....there is a tank with a hose running to the radiator. Coolant is supposed to go in the tank. So I put it coolant in it....a bit above the "Add" line. Radiator is full of fluid...everything's good. Go drive the car, get back and the tank is empty. I check for leaks and nothing has leaked out. I just put a new radiator cap on the radiator because I thought that might be it....guess not? Maybe the coolant is just filling the engine up and I actually need to put more in? I added just about 2 jugs of coolant...I think they are 4qt each? Something like that.

Apeiron

To start a carbureted car with an automatic choke, you have to press the gas pedal once to allow the choke to close, then start the car. After starting, it will be on a fast idle setting for about 2 minutes until the choke heats up and opens. If you don't do this, it will behave more or less as you describe. If you do this, and it's still behaving the same, then your choke might be sticking.

84z28h.o.

I will try that tomorrow morning when I cold start the car.

Does anyone know about my temp questions? I think having 200 for temp is normal...I just don't know about the bursts of heat then cooling down again rapidly.

Apeiron

If it's still leaking coolant, that needs to be fixed before you worry about anything else. If the system can't hold pressure, it can't cool the engine properly.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

The idle issue sounded like the choke wire fell off. It'll stay on choke practically forever, run **** poor, and idle high.

You said before it swallowed up all the coolant you added. Did it go into the oil, or onto the ground? It's gotta go somewhere eh?
If your oil isn't chocolate-milkshake-like, then find and fix the leak. I'm assuming just at the water neck. A pipe wrench is nice to get those bolts out, but you've already remove it, drilled and tapped it right?

84z28h.o.

Where's the choke wire supposed to be?

The oil is fine...when I run the engine just on idle, there is no leak.

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

Is this the stock q-jet feedback carb?
Should be on the passenger side, black plastic thing with a tang. Needs the wire there, should be a green wire.

84z28h.o.

I don't think I have the choke assembly at all...check the pics below:

Passengers side:




Another passengers side:




Drivers side:




Would not having a choke cause overheating problems?

Apeiron

It won't have overheating problems, but it'll certainly be hard to start.

84z28h.o.

Will a carb with numbers 7043202 K2 BS or 17066558 fit on my car? The number on mine is 17082204

Or would it be easier to just buy the choke parts?

Rockguy

Boy I don't miss carburetors at all. Thank god for fuel injection

84z28h.o.

If someone knew what parts I needed, I would just get the choke parts and put them on.

I found the choke pulloff and thermostat on NAPA, but I think there's more to it than just that. Anyone have part numbers or know what else I need?

Sonix

iTrader: (1)

I'm not seeing the pictures there... you guys are?
That sounds like a q-jet part number, so it should have the choke on it. Electric, since it's 170, I think.
That won't touch the overheating issue (probably not), but it'd likely fix your 1500RPM idle, etc.

Apeiron

You'll probably just have to get the parts off a junkyard carb.

84z28h.o.

What is the green wire that Sonix was referring to? Where does it go and what does it do?

Apeiron

It supplies power to the choke heater, which you're missing.

84z28h.o.

I am going to buy this carburetor http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/QUADR...spagenameZWDVW

Where would that green wire connect to...on the carb and where else?

Apeiron

It'll connec to the choke housing on the passenger side of the carb, and the other end disappears into the wiring harness.

84z28h.o.

Well, I found the coolant leak....a small amount comes from around the thermostat housing and when I turned the car off, I noticed some on the ground.

I looked under the car and it was dripping out near the Y pipe. I looked in the engine bay, and it is hear the passengers side exhaust manifold. Head gasket, or??

Apeiron

Or a plug leaking somewhere.

bntyhntr00

to rule out vacuum issues - get a can of starting fluid and spray it around in the engine compartment with the car running - any increase in idle is your leak - and make sure to check at the mating surface of intake to block

OkanaganIroc

As far as your coolant leak, these cars were notoirous for intake manifold leaks. Mine leaked and I had to pull the aluminum manifold off and re-seal it. A mechanic friend told me GM did a lousy job sealing them in the factory and the aluminum/iron mating of the intake and block teneded to promote leaks down the line. Mine didn't leak until I drove it and presure built up in the system, then it leaked like crazy.

84z28h.o.

That's kind of what is happening to me. It doesn't leak with the car off. I idled it for maybe 20 minutes, and then I saw the leak where the head and block meet pretty much....right by the exhaust manifold.

TeknoMaeg

This is caused by the aluminum swelling more than the iron.

To be honest it sounds like your engine is consuming the coolant since you can empty a quart of fluid or more and it only "drips" out.

Have you changed the oil yet? If so was there a milky film to it?

If you haven't you need to do this... run it for a bit... this is gonna suck and it's gonna be hot but let it run and warm up to operating temp... then park it... let it cool for no more than 20 minutes and change the oil. That way if there is any coolant in the system it should still be a bit frothed. Either way you will notice if you change it hot or cold.

If this is the case it could be coming from the intake manifold or the head gasket. Get a decent gasket set... replace the intake manifold gasket first if this is the case... then the head gaskets if its still consuming coolant.

84z28h.o.

I already got the oil changed. I asked if there was anything wrong with the oil and they said it looked normal. When I check the oil right now, it is still normal.

It goes through coolant like crazy....it empties the reservoir on the passengers side, and I have to put maybe 1/2 - 1 quart in the radiator itself.

OkanaganIroc

Well if it's leaking between the block and head the head has to come off and checked for both cracks and warpage. An old buick that I had overheated, blew both head gaskets and cracked a head so that was a rather costly repair since I wasn't equiped to fix it myself at the time. If you're lucky should only have to replce the head gaskets though, while you're at it replace the intake manifold gasket since it's off when you pull the heads.
Is the engine producing any steam? If do that could be where your leak is going. The coolant could be hitting your hot exhaust manifold and turning to steam than you wouldn't see as much of a puddle.

84z28h.o.

Yea, it steams right from near the exhaust manifold. Twice I noticed that it was kind of bubbling from over there. Just air bubbles and some steam.

84z28h.o.

OK, I used a bottle of K and W permanent head gasket and block repair in the cooling system. When I took the thermostat out and put the housing back on, it did not leak from there. It didn't leak from anywhere else either. I'm letting the K and W dry right now (12 hours)

My question is....why would it leak from the thermostat housing with a thermostat in but when the thermostat is out, it doesn't leak? I just replaced the thermostat last week.

OkanaganIroc

Here's hoping your K and W repair works. As far as your leak from the therostat. the Groove that the thermo sits in may not be big enough for it and when you tighten the housing down the thermostat may be pushing the housing back up, causing the leak. Check that the housing is perfectly flat first. (I'm assuming you have an aluminum housing right?) you can use a piece of glass for this. If it's not flat use some fine grain sand paper taped to the glass and sand in a figure '8' patern when it's flat check it again. also check the groove that the therostat sits in. clean out any dirt, debris or corrosion that might be in there. if all else fails buy a new housing (they're pretty cheap) or use two gaskets to make up for any imperfections.

84z28h.o.

What about if I just use some high temp gasket maker?

84z28h.o.

Hmmm, well now with the thermostat in, the car heats up to 230. I turn the car off, and it'll get down to 200. What's up with that?? With the thermostat out, the temp is just fine.

84z28h.o.

OK, I idled the car for about 10 minutes....heated up perfect and everything. No overheating, nothing...only the coolant leak from the thermostat housing. I found out that the coolant just leaks to the back of the engine and runs down, so I thought that there was another leak somewhere.

Strange stuff....the housing that is.

OkanaganIroc

I supose the gasket maker is okay. But the actual gasket is probably better