skinny z

I've been researching components and other builds and am narrowing down the parts list.
It only makes sense (to me) when rebuilding a 350 block to make the step up to more cubes.
To quote my engines professor back when I was in college "To go fast on the street, put the largest engine you can between the fenders." While I'm not about to mothball my 4" bore block (in as much as I'd like to build a 400 or 427), the 3.75" crank seems like a logical step.
The problem lies in having a reasonable compression ratio while potentially reusing my 64cc Vortec heads. At least in the interim. Aluminum heads are inevitable.
In trying to keep with the "Made in the USA" theme I often preach about, I've come up the following:
Howards forged crank.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HRS-353757TS2/
Howards rods. 5.7" I-beam.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HRS-SL5700/
SRP pistons.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SRP-139628/
Rings and bearings will be furnished by the machine shop.
While I'm confident the crank and rods are more than up to the task, I have very little feedback on the pistons. They are forgings however with what I've learned, todays metallurgy allows tighter piston clearences than back in the day and the associated problems that accompany it.
My attempt is to keep my static compression ratio at or just under 10:1.
With the proper deck height (.015") and head gasket (.025") I can maintain a decent quench with the SRP pistons. They have have a quench pad (rather than a full dish) and come in at 16cc piston volume.
Using my existing XR276HR cam, dynamic compression is also reasonable at around 8:1. Slighly less if I consider the slight increase in duration with the 1.6 ratio rocker I currently use.
I intend to keep engine speeds below 6500rpm. I understand the heads are a little on the small side to make power beyond 5500rpm or so.
It is a more or less daily driver however it will see it's share of drag strip duty as well as a few open road course events.
Any other builds out there that compare?

skinny z

Anyone have any experience with Howards.
Looks like top of the line stuff. (Made in the US too!)

http://www.competitionproducts.com/H...info/SBTP376D/

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Used the SRP pistons (5 cc flat top) in my 383 and spun that motor to near 7K rpms and sprayed it with a 150 shot. Tore the motor down and the pistons looked great after 1600 miles of abuse. I beat on that motor a good bit n/a and only sprayed it probably 20 times if that. 10 or so at the track, 10 or so on the street messing around.

They are a good piston.

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

Joe Sherman has built quit a few Vortec 383 motors with good success. He probably used all the little tricks that he as learned over the years to make the motor a success. I'm sure those parts will be just fine for what you are doing.

skinny z

The thinking is the short block is overkill for what I'm doing, at least at this point.
Certainly it gives me the option of forced induction down the road.
Mostly I'm concerned about durability during an open road event. Wide open throttle for 90 miles! I like it but your equipment better be up to it.
For the record, looks like the Vortecs won't make it to this next build. I'm angling in on a pair of aluminum heads that should be better suited to what I intend to do.
I've all but convinced myself that I'll get the Howards short block.
I will go back to to Shermans website and recheck his offerings. IIRC he deals in complete engine assemblies which is more than what I need.

skinny z

Refined.
Unless something extraordinary happens this will be the next lump.

http://www.competitionproducts.com/H...info/SBTP376F/

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_...erf_rpm2.shtml

http://www.compcams.com/Cam_Specs/Ca...?csid=159&sb=0

The tech at Howards says they use a 4cc piston and the decks are cut to arrive at .020" piston below deck.
I should be able to build it with 10.5:1 scr and a dcr of 8.3:1.
Edelbrock RPM Performer 70cc heads. Not the best but not bad. I just can't pass on the price.
My current cam. XR276HR.
That should put me solidly in the 11's based on my now neutered IROC. The Sport Coupe should be a couple of hundred pounds lighter and the 376 should add about 50hp. Maybe more if I can ever sort out the exhaust. (Damn lowered cars!)
Interestingly, all the components are made in the US. All for the same price as parts that are sourced globally.
Gotta like it!

1989GTATransAm

iTrader: (3)

"Maybe more if I can ever sort out the exhaust"

Dyno Don's 1 3/4" short tube headers would serve you well. Above peak torque there is not much difference between long and short tubes. Joe Sherman has stated this as well with all the headers that he has tested over years.

skinny z

I recall reading your posted dyno numbers with results to that effect.
It would certainly solve the ground clearence issue because of interference with the cross member.
What I'd like to know is how do you address the issue of muffler flow when using only a single muffler?
In David Vizards article "Exhaust Science Demystified" he states that for a zero loss (due to back pressure) system, then a muffler flow of 2.2 cfm per horsepower is needed.
With 400hp potential, that's an 880cfm muffler if only one is used. Your in the territory of race style mufflers (aka loud!).
I can only see duals as an alternative.

http://www.superchevy.com/technical/...exh/index.html

PS. Any progress on the exhaust termination boxes?

KNBlazer

dude use the enter button a couple times... it's much friendlier on da' eyes..

skinny z

If you're talking to me, I'm not sure I understand what you mean.
If I recall correctly, using the enter button starts a new paragraph.
Like this.
Yes?
Or do you prefer double spaced?

Like this?

DeuceNC

I think he's referring to the fact that every sentence started a new line, lol. Sounds like you've got a solid build going, can't wait to see the results. I will be doing something similar once the motor in my '89 dies.

skinny z

It's going to take most of this racing season to get it all together.
The chassis for the new engine is stripped down to the sheet metal. It's going to take some time to install the SFC's and add all the new suspension bits.
Not to mention a new interior, door hinges, exhaust, fuel lines, big brake upgrade, etc, etc. You should see my spare room. Looks like a speed shop! (I've been collecting for over 2 years.)

KNBlazer

what can I say, I'm a college student... ... I've been compromised ...

To OP:
So your car is only going to see the track? I am eventually going to drop in a 383 as well, but I'm gonna keep driving it, doing the beefing up upgrade as I go... this way I don't keep the car in the garage as it's been over the last 4 years or so...

DeuceNC

After I get the parts I've got now installed, I won't be doing anything else until I come back from overseas unless I've gotta do it to keep the car running. Even then, either paying off my current house or building a new one will come first. A buddy wants to start a real-estate business together when we get back, but I dunno about that. Either way, though, it'll be a couple-three years before I do any more serious work on the cars. I'll be living vicariously through fellow modders like yourself!

DeuceNC

Should improve your capitalization and punctuation, then...not to mention sentence structure!

KNBlazer

... haven't been compromised to that point yet...

DeuceNC

I've been doing the rolling upgrade for years, but I've always wanted to do like the OP and find a motor I can build outside of the car. I've always said I'm only going to tear an engine down once to build it, and since I can't afford to buy a stroker crank, pistons, heads, cam, etc all at once, I've never done it. With an extra engine, though, I could. So one day I hope to follow in his footsteps and build me one mean monster of a motor.

skinny z

It'll be less of a daily driver than my 350 IROC was however I'll still drive just about every chance I get. I make an annual trip out west every year (5000 miles return) and plan on doing it with this build.
I am a little concerned with the forged pistons and the 1/16th" ring packs that go along with them however I've been told by others that durability shouldn't be an issue with repsect to daily driving. I really enjoyed driving the IROC to the track (2 1/2 hours one way), laying down half a dozen 12 second passes and driving home. I hope I can do it this year and run 11's.
It wasn't my intention not to be racing yet but the 350 starting getting noisy so I pulled it and took it apart. Good thing too. #6 rod bearing was in really bad shape. Fortunately nothing let go and I can salvage the block and do a cheap rebuild later. The best parts will find their way to the new engine.

rapp2691

just got a 350 4 bolt main block and 383 crank need a parts list help please !!!!

vetteoz

iTrader: (13)

Not that easy.
What is your budget?
What use are you building engine for?
What heads are you running?
What compression do you want?
What revs do you want to run.
What induction are you going to use?

You need to come up with some basic details before anyone can give some guidance as to parts selection

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Start your own thread.


Skinny, how is the build progress going?

Just looking over this one again, and thought about your plans. If it was my build and I needed to use vortecs for awhile before switching to aluminum head of some sort, i'd use the SRP 16cc dish pistons. that will give around 9.8 to 1 compression with all the other things you have planned in first post. THEN when its time to go with an aluminum head, I'd order some 64cc heads and have them shaved down to 58cc for 10.4 to 1 compression with same pistons. SHOULD beable to get down to that CC but if they have to angle mill, the intake may need milled to match. Should go 11's with the cam you have depending on the heads you get, but you can step up alittle if you wanted.

This way its easier/cheaper than replacing all the pistons for more compression anyway. If you did swap pistons, get the 64cc head and shoot for 11 to 1 with a 230's deg cam. Will get well into the 11's.

skinny z

[QUOTE=Orr89RocZ;4603711]Start your own thread.QUOTE]

I don't mind. A guy has to start somewhere.

skinny z

[QUOTE=Orr89RocZ;4603711]Skinny, how is the build progress going?QUOTE]

At this point it's completely stalled. I've spent all my spare time working on the underside of the car (sandblasting, painting, etc) and getting all the components together for the suspension and brakes. Almost there. Prep and paint the engine in body colour (OEM Gunmetal gray) and I'm ready to start the reassembly.
As for the engine, the 383 was one interation of the build. I like your thoughts on the approach to achieving a decent compression ratio. I've checked many of the pistons available that will aid in getting about 10:1 SCR and still have a decent quench. What I found was most pistons where a complete dish design rather than a D shaped dish. My understanding is that the latter design helps promote better combustion because the quench pad is maintained. Some may argue although I think every little bit helps. I don't recall the SRP's although I bet I have the specs stashed somewhere in my car stuff file.
That was the 383. What I REALLY want is the Dart/Howards 400 short block.
http://www.competitionproducts.com/D...o/DRT96123400/
Now that's a monster. Vortecs would be unusable in this case. I've purchased a set of Edelbrock RPM Performer 76cc heads that were a steal ($700 new in box) with the intention of doing that someday. Competition Products will assemble this short block with flat top pistons as well.
Sadly, the reality of it is, I'll probably have to try one more rebuild of the 350. It got a little noisey at the start of this season so in a cautionary move, I pulled it apart to find that the #6 rod bearing was in pretty bad shape. No heat damage that I can see. If I can get away without needing any machining (same pistons, rods and crank) then I'll press the Vortecs back into service (albeit aged) and continue on from my previous baseline.
Thanks for the interest. I've received tons of useful info from fellows like yourself and appreciate all the input.
With some luck, I'll get back on the road before the season is over.

skinny z

It would probably help if I checked MY OWN posts before replying.
You're correct Orr, the SRP's were about the most suitable piston I had found in my research. What I still haven't determined (as the project is sort of on hold) is what type of clearence the pistons require and will I end up with a noisey oil burner that is more of a track duty piece than the more or less daily driver/wannabe drag racer that it will be.
If my machinist tells me a rebore is required then I'll probably bite the bullet and upgrade to the 3.75" crank as I had stated before. Vortecs or the Edelbrock's milled is still a question.
Time will tell.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

could leave it mid 9's to one compression with vortecs and then put on 70cc edelbrocks and do a boosted setup with the low compression