I know this is a lot, so please answer whatever you can. Where to begin... My car now has 66K on the odometer and is still riding on the original shocks and springs. It's probably time to replace them soon if they don't need it already. While replacing the shocks, I'd like to lower the car a bit. Probably just 1". After doing a lot or research, I've decided to go with Moog springs with a little bit cut off rather than an Eibach kit. As for the struts, I'm undecided. It's between Tokico Illuminas abd Bilstein Sport shocks. I know that the Bilsteins are designed for lowered cars, but they're a bit pricey. What about the Tokicos? I can't find too much info on them. Are they up to the task, or will they wear out prematurely on a lowered car? Also, if I lower the car, I plan on doing the following to correct the suspension geometry:

1. LCA relocation brackets
2. Adjustable panhard rod
3. Tubular rear LCAs (while I have everything apart anyway)
4. Adjustable torque arm. (Do I really need one with a lowered car, or will the stock one be alright?)

Anything else I should add to this list?

Also, what's the benifit of tubular front A-arms? And a tubular K-member? Not that I'm considering these, just curious...

I'm doing subframe connectors very soon too. I think it's probably a good idea to have the car pulled back into shape at a chassis shop. My car hasn't been hit or anything, but why brace a potentially crooked car, right? About how much does a procedure like this cost?

I don't race the car or anything, I just want to be able to tear up the back roads. Any answers or suggestions about something else I could use, or something in here I really don't need would be really helpful. Thanks guys!

I'm in no means a suspension expert but I believe most would suggest using the sport springs that lower the car with thier installation.Cutting springs is a tricky process.As you've probably read subframe connectors are a must.From what I've read on tubular A-arms they aren't neccessary unless you're going for that last ounce of unsrung weight savings.You could rebuild your cars exsisting A-arms and spent the money elswhere on her.Going with the adjustable panhard why not go with adjustable LCA and the relocation brackets seem to be a must with a lowered car(it's been suggested they are even with a stock height one).It would be a good idea to go with an aftermarket torque arm for what you are doing even is it's a fixed unit.I would bet just replacing the shocks would make a world of difference.But add to this to upgrade the brakes also.Overall it looks like you have a good handle on what you want or need to do.

Sounds like a plan. Here's one guy's opinions.

LCA relocation brackets: I changed to a pro-kit and removed the upper spring isolators and it threw my lca geometry waay off. You'll need these when lowering.

Adjustable phr: If your axle doesn't look off center after lowering, you're not going to get much benefit from this. If tire clearance is critical, though, like with fatty rear wheels and tires, you'll probably be buying one.

Tublular rear lcas: The jury's still out on these IMO. I'm sure their better than stockers, but some say the poly bushings can bind and occasionally make for some surprising handling characteristics. I dont like surprising handling characteristics. There's a set going around ebay now that uses a 3 piece urethane bushing in one end, that's suppose to eliminate the problem. Worth a look.

Adjustable torque arm: Expensive, and I've never felt a need for it. I think the need for this goes up with horsepower, so its not a problem for me. With a stock or near stock motor, I think you'd be better spending that money on better tires. Comp T/As rather than Kuhmos, etc.

Tublular front control arms: Not worth the money unless you are out to build a serious autocrosser.

Tubular k member: Waay not worth the money unless your going for a class autocross record. I've seen some REALLY fast autocross third gens with stock K members.

Subframe connectors: Yep, you need those, made a world of difference on my convertible. Unless you suspect chassis damage (buckled floors, or weird driving characteristics), I wouldn't spend my money on a frame machine.

Best money spent when starting from scratch, IMO, subframe connectors, new ball joints, tie rod ends etc. Poly bushings everywhere, and good tires.

Then springs and shocks, assuming you already have healthy stock or replacement shocks already.

Which ever springs you get you need to buy good struts/shocks. KyB's are junk. Bilstein is a good factory replacement shock. When you go with a lowering spring you need a really good shock to control the dampening of the spring.

I used eibach sportlines and bilstiens. Man that was a mistake. For one the sportline is not a performance spring, it's an appearance spring. Eibach springs aren't that great. The pro kit are ok. Best used with a set of revalved Bilsteins matched to the spring rate. Get in contact with Sam Strano or Guldstrand. Both sell springs/shock combo's and can explain why things work the way they do.

As far as LCA's. If you wanting your car to handle they aren't a good idea. In a turn the poly bushings bind up and won't let the rear end move and let the springs and sway bars do their thing. It will can induce snap steer from the back, and let me tell you that is scary as hell. Sperical/poly is a good combo for the street. The rod end lets the rear move around.

Tourqe arm I don't see as being as important. SFC's are a must.

I read alot of posts on this board about suspension stuff and thought I had a good understanding of it and a decent combo. I was wrong. After talking a guy who does it for a living things make more sense.

The most important part of the whole suspension setup is the struts/shocks. They are also the most expensive. You can go with a cheaper strut/shock but it's not going to handle as well and ride as well. I know everyone has a budget. Thats why I am trying to decide between a set of revalves or Koni Yellows for my 00 Firehawk.

Hope this helps some.

I have a few more questions, but rather than start a new thread, I figured I'd just add to this one. Since I started this thread two months ago and after a lot of going back and forth, I've decided against lowering the car. I've pretty much been dragging my feet for the last few months deciding what to do.

The new questions I have concern the front suspension, I really just want some opinions and guidance. I'll be using Tokico struts and moog 5664 springs. I'm also going to use either the J&M or Spohn spherical strut mounts(so any opinions on either of these are welcome too). The way I see it, I have four options. The first being:

Use the stock A-arms with polyurethane bushings. This would is the least expensive path.

Use the stock A-arms with Global West del-alum bushings. These are supposed to be the best bushings you can buy. And at over $300 for a set, they better be. The question here is are they really that amazing to justify that price?

The price tag of those del-a-lum bushings got me to thinking about option #3. For $100 more I could get some new Spohn tubular A-arms with poly bushings already in them. Would this be better than the del-a-lums and stock A-arms?

This fourth option would really break the bank, but if it offers a HUGE improvement in handling, I may consider them more seriously. Spohn has a coil-over kit. What would this setup offer in terms of improvments in handling? How much of an improvement would this offer over the other setups? Would I need to convert the rear to coil-overs as well? I'm sure this is the outright best method, but is it worth it?

I know I aksed a lot of questions again, but if you have any opinions on the above methods of improving the handling of my car, they'd be appreciated Basicly, what would give me the most bang for my buck? I want the best for my car, but I don't want to spend a fortune on itif the parts won't give a noticeable increase in handling. Do I have any other options? I'm open to suggestions. Thanks in advance.

From what I've read, it seems the front coil-overs aren't recommended as the strut tower was not meant to have the entire weight of the vehicle on it. Much in the same way that the rear shock mount wasn't meant to have the whole weight of the vehicle on it. So you'd have to find a way to reinforce the areas, which can complicate things. I also hear that the fronts are more suited to drag racing rather than autox.

I'm using the stockers with prothane bushing, no problems there. Like you, I considered Spohn's A-arms. After doing a bit of research here and learning that Spohn's version dropped some cars, I decided against. That problem, however, may have been eliminated at this point. For more info, you might speak with Steve himself. I doubt you'll notice a difference in handling.

I've had poly bushing in the stock front arms for a while now, and can't imagine that a more expensive option would result in much better cornering. Less weight though, which is good.

BTW...I just replaced everything in back and tried the LCAs with the spherical poly bushings. Also replaced all 4 tires. I've been pushing the car hard into all kinds of turns and have yet to hit the limit OR have the problems associated with conventional poly LCA bushings.

Does anyone else have opinions on the Global West A-arm bushings vs. poly bushings?

I've been using Globalwest (Del-Alum) suspension bushings in my car for over 15 years. They are magnifacient. I have autocrossed the car as long as the bushings have been in the car and occasional drag race. They provide a much more free moving suspension and with ZERO deflection and bind even running with a toe out front end alignment for autocross. I have recently pulled the A-arms for inspection and all surfaces still look like new! They are worth every penny and WILL last the life time of the car as long as they are properly lubricated.

The global-west Del-a-lum bushings are the only way to go. The freedom of movement is amazing. I would recomend them very highly.

There is alot of stuff in this thread, So I'm going to bounce around and try to touch on everything. I am not positive on this, but rod ends on your LCA's would simply not be beneficial on the street. To gain the benefits you need to be autocrossing the car. Now like I said, I could be right or wrong, this is just what I've read on here from countless threads and debates on the subject, do a search and come to a decision.

An adjustable panhard bar is a must if you lower your car, as when the car is lowered it shifts the rearend to the side. To fix that you gotta get an adj to center it again. But you decided against lowering your car so you can skip this.

I cannot speak for the del-alum bushings because I've never seen them or driven with them, but the idea is a very good one but very very expensive.

As far as the Front a-arms, it's all about whether or not you want to spend the money to lose the weight. I opted to as I am trying to make my car alittle more well balanced, so do it if you like.

LCA relocation brackets can go either way if you want. I have heard they help even if the car is not lowered. It's all about which hole you choose to use, just remember, the more parallel your LCA the better.

Please do yourself a favor and Get some good shocks/struts. Cheap ones just won't handle as good, as well as not lasting as long and always the possiblity of premature failure. Get yourself some bilsteins or koni and enjoy the ride rather than kick yourself in the ***.

Don't forget tires, get good tires, i think you all know why.

I'm not sure if I missed anything but it's early and I need to get ready for work, so good luck.

I would get at least 1 rod end, not matter what. with poly pushings you bind up the rear suspension, in my case, I actualy broke a Spohn control arm, because the bind loosened the jam nut, and then it trashed the threads inside.

Look at the specs, you aren't saving weight. The stock A-arms are not very heavy. IMHO It is not worth it, the chance of one breaking, and the lack of weight savings, doesn't justify trying to run them.

I think the rest of the stuff is all covered. You biggest gains you will see, are in shocks/struts and tires. The rest is just fluff.

I agree witht he above for the most part and just want to add to this. Spohn has done a great job in reinforcing the strut towers with his plate system. That I trust and it looks very strong. I firmly believe he has the flimsy toer material braced PLENTY sufficiantly with his design. Other ones like PA racing kits etc, I question the towers flexing the sheet metal under the mounts.

Now to where the jury is still out and my great concerns lay. Last I talked to Spohn he decided to use the torrington thrust bearings on top and bottom of the coils. My concern why was because a coil over setup on a full time straight line drag car really only sees minimal use and just stress on the towers banging back down, but the car is never turned hard- HERE"S the kicker- On Strut coilovers, every time you turn the steering wheel, the coil has bind! Thats where the Torrington bearings come in- MAYBE. Torrington bearings are really designed for ease of corner weight adjustments of springs when the car is on scales. It allows you to turn the spring height adjuster under load for simple adjustments on SHOCK COILOVERS. THese are STRUT COILOVERS. THey are being turned back and forth on the torringtom bearings every single time you turn the steering wheel! This has absolutely to my knowledge no R&D testing to see how the product holds up. I never wanted to experiment with it on my car. It may work, it may break the bearings in 3000 miles, it may last 200,000 miles- We still do not know and thats 'MY' concern with coilovers on a 3rd gen.

When Spohn first started to produce a front coil over setup for touring/autocross/track time, I called them about "WHO" uses them in the autocross or on track and have the coilover setup been tested for structural integrity for the stresses involved in high speed cornering.
Their response was something like: "No" we have never tested them in such an enviroment! NO testing! SO I said thankyou , I'll stay with the stock strut type suspension. I'll not gamble my safety on untested products.
I know of no national calibre autocross competitors that used them on their 3rd gens.
I must say that the Spohn torque arm works nicely.

Even after that miss jigged X-member he never responded to us on and never made right that loss, you are still being honest on the performace value you got out of the TQarm. Anyone that is not aware, Ron here has one monster of a SBC in that badboy. You gotta plug your ears standing next to it. Its like a damn NASCAR cup car motor he has in it. Pretty damn nice and surely puts a load on that tqarm. I just finally bought from him again here last week. But it was through Hawks. I am still alittle disappointed in him on that ordeal. I have been happy with my products I bought from him for my personal use.

Edit: It appears you are doing shorthauls out there Ron? I gather that from your bio.(I know Richmond doesn't make a 10speed )