need help figuring out various leaks
 

I have 2 points of leakage that I am not sure are caused by having a T-top car.
Illustrated below. Circled in black.
Right Side
Attachment 346379
Left Side
Attachment 346379
The water seems to drip around the middle support brace between the hatch bolts as well as drip through the holes above the brace.
Occasionally too it would leak from the pockets near the top of the roof above the speakers.
I have re-done the trunk weather stripping and the leaks above the speakers have seemed to stop.

These I am sure are caused by the faulty seal installation. I suspect that it is leaking around the roof rail where the T-Tops slid under it. These front leaks have all but destroyed my sun visors.
Illustrated below circled in black.
Left side
Attachment 346381
Right Side
Attachment 346382


I bought new seals from Rick's Camaros and had a shop put them in, they really did a terrible job. Unfortunately there is no chance of getting them to fix this, they copped out and said "well you'll never get them to seal and we did you a favor by doing it for 40 bucks" Its simply not worth it to fight them over 40 bucks.
Unfortunately the T-Top seals above the doors are glue type, which just seem full of fail. Is there any tip to making these work or should I put back in my bolt in types, which aside from being worn are not damaged?
Aside from any tips to help stop these leaks, are there any really detailed guides on installing these that anyone can recommend? I think if I could just see properly installed leak free T-Tops I can fix mine.
I removed all my interior panels to check for rust and these leaks are all that is stopping me from installing my new interior. Have the Dark grey/leather interior in good shape I want to put in to replace my light grey that is in tatters from years of neglect.
This car is 8583 off the line in 87, custom ordered and I want to save her, but if I cant stop these leaks it will prove difficult to do so.

Re: need help figuring out various leaks
 

Have you removed the center piece that the t-tops slip into.Alot of times the metal under that is rusted/corroded.Thats where i would start.

Since you have the interior out.Id squirt some water around the t-top seals.Should be able to trace the leak that way.

Re: need help figuring out various leaks
 

A 40 dollar install should be a red flag right there. Clearly they didn't know what they were doing. Any competent shop would atleast charge 200 dollars or more for a correct t-top seal install. The areas you are having leaks I would think would be places where leaks shouldnt occur unless you have rust holes. Since you didn't do it yourself, you wouldn't know if there are rust holes in areas you cant see and the shop you had install them I doubt would tell you about them if there was any so they wouldn't have to fix them. I'm afraid you will have to remove the seals and redue the install correctly and see if there is any rust holes in the panels under the seals and perimeters of where the seals sit.

Re: need help figuring out various leaks
 

I will be removing the seals when I can get a couple tubes of the 3M adhesive. Ill check for the rust holes than. As far as the roof rail removal, at least thats what I call it. How does this come out? I tried to remove one from a junkyard car and it did not go well and have been afraid to try on mine.
For removing the seals, is there a decent adhesive remover that I can use that wont damage the seals?

Unfortunately that shop was recommended to me by several people in the industry for doing good work at a reasonable price. I chose to trust that advice for my floor repair. The car was in a hit and run that fractured the passenger floor in half and smashed the rear quarter. Pushed the trailing arm mount through the floor. They did alright work there, welded a plate in to push it down. I was under the impression they would install a new pan but yeah didn't happen. It was part of the package deal for all the work that they did that for 40. I really am not satisfied with them but I have little recourse since now most shops won't touch it once they know another shop got their hands in it. Which means I cant file small claims as I cant get another shop to repair it to claim loss on re-done repairs.

Re: need help figuring out various leaks
 

I think there are some screws underneath, you have to remove the OH console to access them.

Might be easier to (carefully) cut the adhesive than try to remove it.

Re: need help figuring out various leaks
 

He could have rust under there but more then likely he's leaking where the under the T-Bar where it bolts into the center body brace. Where this brace meets the front and rear channels where the weatherstripping sits there are about 2-3 overlapping pieces of metal on each end of this brace. There is a usually some gasket material covering this area and the ol' T-Top channel rot is there, too.

If you were to pour some water on that area where that overlapping area is, and your headliner is off, you will get water going into just about every hole the original poster pointed out and then some. When I bought my Camaro I cleaned out those channels really well, fixed the rust areas, and resealed my original weatherstripping the the black 3m stuff. When I get the car painted its going to be redone but its held up great since then, considering it leaked when I bought it. My T-Tops can be taken off and on and survive in Florida downpours and I have no leaks in that area at all and that is on 25 yr old weatherstripping.

I would venture to guess that those seals under the T-Bar are shot and that is where you are leaking from. Take the T-bar off, get some new gaskets or silicone the overlapping area well, and reattach the T-Bar and the weatherstripping. When you reglue the weatherstripping into the channel, make sure you push the corners well enough to get them under the T-Bar overlap piece on each end. You'll have to hold them there until the glue sits but it helps keep that area dry.

Re: need help figuring out various leaks
 

Thanks guys such great info. I will be taking a look at that here soon. Its been raining for about 10 days straight. Threw a shower curtain on top to keep the rain out, ugly but effective.
EDIT: sorry my pictures got moved updated the links.

Re: need help figuring out various leaks
 

I forgot to add the image last night in case I confused you or anyone else reading this. The black circled areas that are covered in schmutz is where the overlapping metal is. Sorry for not posting it before.

Re: need help figuring out various leaks
 

No worries man. That picture helps loads, now I see how the t-bar comes out. Appreciate it very much.

Re: need help figuring out various leaks
 

Well I finally got around to attempt the removal of the t-bar. Still cannot figure out how to remove it. There are no bolts under my roof console, that could hold it in. Removing the 4 screws on the black brackets does not allow it to be removed. I am afraid of trying to force it off, as I tried that on a junk yard car and destroyed the bar in the process.

This is an 87 Iroc-Z if that helps. I have heard reports that these are sometimes welded in. I hope that is not the case for me.

Re: need help figuring out various leaks
 

There should be 2 screws on each end the T-bar and then 3 or 4 down each side, also. They may be rusted over but I'm not sure since you don't have a pic of the T-bar up. Also, there could be some glue or silicone or something under there holding it in. I don't think they are welded in.

Re: need help figuring out various leaks
 

thanks I found them. In the 4 corners of the bar. Appreciate it.

Last question, what should I use to seal this back down? Someone said seam sealer or will rtv work?

Re: need help figuring out various leaks
 

When I did mine I think I only had the factory gasket material on mine. There was so much rot with the gaskets that I couldn't even tell if glue was used. Also, I could not find the same thickness material, either.

Personally, I think you'll be alright if you make sure that the overlapping metal is siliconed. You can probably also use the 3m weatherstripping adhesive on that area, too. I used silicone since that's what I had on hand. Also, make sure push that weatherstripping in under the flap of the T-bar and hold it in there til the adhesive sets. You'll have to do that on the 4 corners.

Then, its just trial and error. Leave your headliner off and start testing it for leaks. Take the hose and have someone shower the car like rain and see if you see any water coming in after so long. Its usually pretty quick, like within 10-20 seconds. I left my headliner out for a while just to make sure.

It really is a trial and error process but its not really complicated. You may get paranoid so just have enough weatherstripping adhesive on hand!!!

Re: need help figuring out various leaks
 

Same issue here, this thread helped a lot, thanks guys.

Re: need help figuring out various leaks
 

Just wanted to thank you guys, you were spot on for the problem. The body where the t-bar mounted was not that bad but the t-bar was worse than I thought.
I am including a pic to show how bad the t-bar was.

When I put the new(used) on in I made sure to rtv around the edges, screw points, and where the factory seam sealer was used. As an added protection I put a bead around the holes in the roof bar itself, to prevent water from being able to reach there.

Got a heavy rain a few days after I did this and only one leak left. The contact point for the rear of the passenger t-top. Working on that now and the interior goes back in.

I wanted to add, that rick's camaros really pulled through. The original seals I got really were and are crap. I showed them many pics and they went above and beyond and sent me a set of soft seal t-top seals as a replacement. If this is a shameless plug forgive me but they deserve props those seals they sent me are not cheap.