Holley 850 hardcore series double pumper pig rich no matter what i do! hey guys it’s been a while but I’ve been chasing my tail on my Camaro running rich. I’ve got a 383 stroker with A. Holley 850 double pumper hardcore series carb. Cam is .555 lift comp cam. I have done everything to try and lean this carb out. My cruise afr is 12.5. Lowering jet sizes doesn’t help either. The only thing that helps is leaning the idle mixture to 15 but if I do that the carb is too lean during acceleration and cuts out. It will also die in gear if I have it that lean at idle. My plugs look rich obviously but not black rich. Mostly a dark brown on the porcelean. Anyone have any ideas? Is the cam spitting out unburned fuel and giving me a false reading? Car has a ton of power and runs great. Am just concerned about fouling plugs and bore ware. I use aces IV so i guess I’m not super worried about bore ware and the fact it’s a once a week driver tops and once a month strip car. Any ideas or advice guys? I’ve been messing around with this for 8 months now. Should I just call it good since it runs so damn good? Seems like the more gas I throw at this engine the better it gets... confused. Help thanks!!! |
Re: Holley 850 hardcore series double pumper pig rich no matter what i do! Cams do not "spit". Have you tried the "Hooley Tuning" sticky at the top of this forum? I'll be happy to try to interpret the writer's intentions for you, to the limited extent I can. |
Re: Holley 850 hardcore series double pumper pig rich no matter what i do!
Originally Posted by sofakingdom
(Post 6188781)
Cams do not "spit". Have you tried the "Hooley Tuning" sticky at the top of this forum? I'll be happy to try to interpret the writer's intentions for you, to the limited extent I can. |
Re: Holley 850 hardcore series double pumper pig rich no matter what i do! Why do you think this happens only to your car, and only with this carb on it? It is not a good policy to make up stuff like that to try to explain something you don't understand. That's like blaming it on alien abduction or something: it doesn't pass the test of tailoring "explanation" to "facts". See my signature for a terrific mental technique to follow in situations like this. That said, it IS possible for a carb's calibration to be SO FAR WRONG for what the motor wants, that the motor misfires or that there's raw fuel passing through it or whatever. The answer of course is to properly calibrate the carb, instead of blaming the cam. Which is to say, make the carb's fuel delivery curves - fuel vs air flow at higher speeds, extra fuel vs power demand at WOT, fuel vs vacuum at idle, etc. - match the engine's demands. One does this by "isolating" each system of the carb in turn, in the order in which they interact, and adjusting each of those systems to satisfy the engine's wants. Note that this is VASTLY different from posting on the Internet about "what size jets should I put in my carb" and other such fundamentally wrong-headed questions. Every engine is different; every car is different, such that the same engine will react differently to the different loads each car presents it with (weight, gears, converter, etc.); and every carb is different. Plus, every driver/owner has different expectations, and every potential use of the car (daily driver, strip, oval track, etc.) puts different constraints on the carb's ideal settings. Which is why YOU should tune YOUR carb on YOUR motor doing whatever YOU do with it to make it work like YOU want it to work. The Holley Tuning sticky kinda walks you through that. The order of adjustment is:
Obviously if the carb is simply defective in some way, there is NO HOPE of ever calibrating it correctly. MAKE SURE it's in perfect working condition BEFORE trying to calibrate it. Those are 2 different things: fix a broken carb, vs calibrate a perfectly working but mismatched carb to match your engine. Put a "kit" in it before starting, with spray silicone lube on all the gaskets, so you can easily take it apart repeatedly. "New" is not the same things as "perfectly working"; so don't automatically assume that just because your carb happens to be new, if it is, that it's not defective. Rebuild it, then go through the process, and let us know how that works out. |
Re: Holley 850 hardcore series double pumper pig rich no matter what i do! So I’m making things up by stating a large cam can be responsible for sending wrong 02 readings on an AFR due to Unburned gases leaving the exhaust?!? Dude don’t sit there high and mighty when I state something that can actually happen. Your screen name says it all about you? Give some actual advice without trying to put down others by making **** up you dumbass!You are the same type of idiot who sits at the track telling everyone how to tune cars and then you get in your shitty 4 banger civic and go home to your trailer. Anyone who isn’t a dumbass please respond. This guy |
Re: Holley 850 hardcore series double pumper pig rich no matter what i do! Lots of people have big cams and still get their car to run just fine. Although ".555 lift" hardly qualifies as "big". Sorry I tried to help. Too bad you're immune to it. Good luck getting your car to run right. Maybe someday when you develop enough humility to LEARN something instead of inventing wild-a$$ hilarious "explanations", you'll make some progress. Have a wonderful life. :waveman: |
Re: Holley 850 hardcore series double pumper pig rich no matter what i do! Actually got a private message from someone who wasn’t as self absorbed as your dumbass. .555 is a big cam compared to stock. I would say something like huge cam if it were like a .626 etc. So thanks for confirming to me again that you are in fact a dumbass! The fact that you don’t understand larger cams can send unburned gases which provide a false reading on AFRs is comical to me. You talk a big game but don’t know basic ****. You are one of those guys who needs people to act like you are gods gift to engine building. When someone presents a problem you don’t understand you try to claim they made it up?!? What are you like 12 years old dude? Grow up man and learn some facts you puffed up crows cock. Go figure that was exactly what I had going on too! AFR was pig rich but it was due to a false reading because of the big cam. So if anyone else has this problem make sure to check your plugs and compare them to what your afr reading is. Oh btw have fun with your Honda Civic dude! I hope the wood stove keeps your trailer warm tonight it’s getting cold! I swear I run into idiots everywhere. His screen name says it all!! I guess he wanted a screen name to match his brain hahahaha! Idiot! |
Re: Holley 850 hardcore series double pumper pig rich no matter what i do! Well that was unpleasant... |
Re: Holley 850 hardcore series double pumper pig rich no matter what i do!
Originally Posted by zed-028
(Post 6188971)
Well that was unpleasant... JamesC |
Re: Holley 850 hardcore series double pumper pig rich no matter what i do! Indeed... uncalled for. |
Re: Holley 850 hardcore series double pumper pig rich no matter what i do! [QUOTE=sofakingdom;6188975]Indeed... uncalled for oh now the baby is upset! Go bother someone’s else’s thread and get the hell of mine you rat bastard. |
Re: Holley 850 hardcore series double pumper pig rich no matter what i do! :eek: :lmao: |
Re: Holley 850 hardcore series double pumper pig rich no matter what i do! What is wrong with a honda civic. They are great cars |
Re: Holley 850 hardcore series double pumper pig rich no matter what i do!
Originally Posted by midias
(Post 6189059)
What is wrong with a honda civic. They are great cars I recommend them all the time to friends who've never popped a hood in their lives :) |
Re: Holley 850 hardcore series double pumper pig rich no matter what i do! Clear morning, moon was sure pretty. Radio playing |
Re: Holley 850 hardcore series double pumper pig rich no matter what i do! "It was a beautiful day....." |
Re: Holley 850 hardcore series double pumper pig rich no matter what i do! Second cassette tape I bought! First was Styx. |
Re: Holley 850 hardcore series double pumper pig rich no matter what i do!
Originally Posted by dlinger
(Post 6189071)
Second cassette tape I bought! First was Styx. |
Re: Holley 850 hardcore series double pumper pig rich no matter what i do!
Originally Posted by 86LG4Bird
(Post 6189061)
Hell yeah.....they're like the Maytag of automobiles! I recommend them all the time to friends who've never popped a hood in their lives :) |
Re: Holley 850 hardcore series double pumper pig rich no matter what i do! So. . .all fighting aside, I would try a smaller carb, like a 750dp. |
Re: Holley 850 hardcore series double pumper pig rich no matter what i do!
Originally Posted by sofakingdom
(Post 6188845)
The order of adjustment is:
|
Re: Holley 850 hardcore series double pumper pig rich no matter what i do!
Originally Posted by scooter
(Post 6189083)
This is very informative, but where would the squirters and pump cams fall into this list of operations? This guy could have problems dumping too much pump shot and is covering, or causing his actual issue. It doesn't seem like he knows what to do at all. Just so you don't take it wrong, I am not criticizing, I am genuinely asking. I am not a carb guy at all, and I only mess with one vehicle with a carb |
Re: Holley 850 hardcore series double pumper pig rich no matter what i do!
Originally Posted by RedLeader289
(Post 6189082)
So. . .all fighting aside, I would try a smaller carb, like a 750dp. Pretty good chance the new carb would have to be tuned also. If he is determined the cam is spitting (which I unsuccessfully googled so this youngster has no idea what that is) I would call Comp Cams tech and see what cam he needs to install. The cam lifts the valves. Carb and intake put the mixture into the cylinder, spark ignites it. Anyway, its a beautiful day, and the Christmas season - so Merry Christmas everyone. Somebody start posting some pictures for us to view :thumbsup: |
Re: Holley 850 hardcore series double pumper pig rich no matter what i do!
Originally Posted by dlinger
(Post 6189090)
If OP wants help, he needs to start with the Holley Tuning sticky and report back after he has done it. I am sure he can get the help with squirters, pump cams (although maybe not). |
Re: Holley 850 hardcore series double pumper pig rich no matter what i do!
Originally Posted by dlinger
(Post 6189090)
If OP wants help, he needs to start with the Holley Tuning sticky and report back after he has done it. I am sure he can get the help with squirters, pump cams (although maybe not). |
Re: Holley 850 hardcore series double pumper pig rich no matter what i do!
Originally Posted by scooter
(Post 6189093)
I don't care about the OP, I am asking for me |
Re: Holley 850 hardcore series double pumper pig rich no matter what i do!
Originally Posted by RedLeader289
(Post 6189097)
Squirters and pump cams are good for fine tuning, once you've worked over everything upstream. |
Re: Holley 850 hardcore series double pumper pig rich no matter what i do!
Originally Posted by Bob88GTA
(Post 6189094)
After his rant on Sofa, he needs to find another forum that knows all the answers. We obviously have nothing to bring to the party. :imo: |
Re: Holley 850 hardcore series double pumper pig rich no matter what i do!
Originally Posted by Kiwallo
(Post 6189121)
Am I wrong to say that larger cams can recycle unburned gasses and spit them out the exhaust providing wrong 02 readings.
Originally Posted by Kiwallo
(Post 6189121)
.555 lift power band is 3-7000 I Mia posted before. |
Re: Holley 850 hardcore series double pumper pig rich no matter what i do!
Originally Posted by Kiwallo
(Post 6189123)
oh shut up bob you snow flake baby Tuning carburetors is a long and tedious process. When you say the 850 gives you "more power" was that verifiable or just by the seat of your pants? 35 squirters are huge and likely what is contributing to your flooding issue. This thread is your starting point, I highly suggest you give it a read and try what it suggests. It has helped countless Holley users on this forum. https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/carb...ey-tuning.html |
Re: Holley 850 hardcore series double pumper pig rich no matter what i do! I found his cam card. https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/atta...o-img_1524.jpg |
Re: Holley 850 hardcore series double pumper pig rich no matter what i do!
Originally Posted by scooter
(Post 6189143)
I found his cam card. https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/atta...o-img_1524.jpg |
Re: Holley 850 hardcore series double pumper pig rich no matter what i do! Yes a big overlap cam causing false afr readings am I wrong? |
Re: Holley 850 hardcore series double pumper pig rich no matter what i do!
Originally Posted by RedLeader289
(Post 6189137)
If you're seriously looking for help/information then you will need to throttle back your insults and crass language. This forum is one of the most helpful and also the most friendly/clean forums on the internet, we plan to keep it that way. Tuning carburetors is a long and tedious process. When you say the 850 gives you "more power" was that verifiable or just by the seat of your pants? 35 squirters are huge and likely what is contributing to your flooding issue. This thread is your starting point, I highly suggest you give it a read and try what it suggests. It has helped countless Holley users on this forum. https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/carb...ey-tuning.html |
Re: Holley 850 hardcore series double pumper pig rich no matter what i do! where would the squirters and pump cams fall into this list of operations? I can't recall ever needing to alter it in a carb after it was set up right otherwise. Esp a Holley... their pump system is usually WAYYYYY overkill. But in any case, if the pump needs work AT ALL, it would be at step 5½. |
Re: Holley 850 hardcore series double pumper pig rich no matter what i do!
Originally Posted by sofakingdom
(Post 6189197)
Usually, nowhere... the entire accelerator pump system is a "crutch" to tide the carb over during the short interval of time between when air starts flowing as the throttles are opened, and the time that the heavier, higher-inertia fuel begins to move. A "perfect" carb would have no need of it at all. Of course no such thing exists, so all carbs need a little bit of help in that regard; but once properly tuned, the need is minimal. I can't recall ever needing to alter it in a carb after it was set up right otherwise. Esp a Holley... their pump system is usually WAYYYYY overkill. But in any case, if the pump needs work AT ALL, it would be at step 5½. |
Re: Holley 850 hardcore series double pumper pig rich no matter what i do! You still here??? I believe I was speaking to someone who was looking for information and trying to learn something, not someone who just wants to start arguments over stuff he doesn't know much about ... and the way his car runs, by his own account, backs that up. |
Re: Holley 850 hardcore series double pumper pig rich no matter what i do! Kiwallo, cut the crap mate, theres no need for any of this angst. Any moderators feel like nipping this sh**show in the bud before it deteriorates any further? |
Re: Holley 850 hardcore series double pumper pig rich no matter what i do! Enough is enough. |
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