EBL & aftermarket coils
 

I'm wondering if the EBL (or any factory ECM) will work with an aftermarket or standard type ignition coil.

Looking at the EBL schematic it appears the "E" frame 4-wire coil is just "split" into 4 wires for some reason. It seems you could route the 2 pairs together and use a typical 2 wire coil. Looking at the MSD instructions it appears they are doing just that except they are making the E coil work with the MSD.

I may be overlooking something here so please chime in. If a regular type coil will work it sure opens up a lot of options.

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

You would need to compare the impedance on the primary to secondary winding to determine if the icm can handle it.

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

I've run a small cap distributor with the GM 369 ICM and a house brand (Summit) oil filled canister coil. This coil provided for a smoother idle and tip in over the stock GM E coil. If you go with one make sure that it is a 'Made in USA' coil.

Many of the others that are made South of the border and West of the ocean use inferior insulation on the coil wires. It breaks down over time and causes all sorts of issues, just like the Multec injectors.

The E coil with the two connectors and four wires is for hookup, nothing more. In reality it is a 2 wire coil (primary side here). The two connectors are wired straight across.

Note that with ignition systems I avoid nearly all aftermarket stuff. I will use the higher grade caps and rotors, but that's about it.

RBob.

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

Thanks for the replies. It confirms what I was seeing about the coil and what I suspected about compatibility.

I'm having a "host of problems" that manifest in different ways. You saw my post about the variation in fueling front to rear and I have some issues with spark intensity so I believe there are a couple of issues in play.

As far as the ignition problems just go through the components and replace with good quality stock parts? The problem is where to get them. There are very few suppliers who sell the higher quality, domestic components.

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

My engine originally came with an external coil, but I switched to an internal coil design and inverted the connector lines. I am running an MSD HEI distributor cap and rotor, MSD spark plug wires, and a PerTronix Flamethrower Ignition Coil. EBL-P4 works flawless with it...

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

What is your experience/opinion of CD ignitions such as MSD?

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

Unfortunately, the HSR intake doesn't have clearance for the large distributor cap. I seem to have a weak spark or at least not as strong as I would like to see. I would like to upgrade the ignition in some way.

I'm currently running a stock distributor, stock replacement ICM, MSD coil cap and rotor with a set of MSD wires. Thinking about adding MSD 6A box for the low RPM spark improvement. I suspect that with the HSR intake and ~70* overlap cam it is having a difficult time igniting the mix at lower RPM ranges.

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

I wouldn't do the MSD box, I've used them before and I wasn't too convinced they did anything worthwhile other than maybe increased engine clutter. The PerTronix Flamethrower is also made for the small cap distributor too. I swapped to a fat cap dizzy to reduce clutter, but had I maintained the small cap dizzy I would have went with the Flamethrower II coil and Flamethrower ICM. I already had a new ICM for the fat cap so I stood with it...

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...KL._SY355_.jpg
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...JL._SY355_.jpg

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

Well I checked the primary and secondary Ohm on my coil as well as the replacement specs on the MSD E-coil I have been running. (Summit has a good amount of detail on their product's page) I checked the specs on the Flamethrower II and MSD 8202. The only real difference in the MSD coil was the inductance is a little higher @ 8mH vs 7.2mH. So I decided to give it a try. So far it seems to be working but I'm going to keep an eye on it. I have a spare ICM and coil in my car with tools just in case! I also intend to contact someone at MSD and possibly Pertronix and see it I can get additional info. Will keep you posted.

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

How close do you think it would need to be to work? I found specs for inductance and the new one was 8mH vs 7.2. What would the effect be if it is higher or lower? I am running the canister type now and it seems to run fine the msd tech said the E coil is better but couldn't really explain why.

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

Ok an update on the MSD 8202 canister coil. Been running it all week with no issues yet. Motor is running better than ever. Can't attribute how it is running to the coll change but it doesn't seem to be hurting. Smooth idle good clean revs. I plan to it until an issue comes up.

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

Why?? The more advance you run in the calibration the more spark energy you are losing with the wider terminal spacing.

-- Joe

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

A larger cap reduces the chance of crossfire and spark jump off of the rotor, something that is critical in my case with a high boosted engine. Not to mention, I have never lost any amount of spark energy due to the wider spacing, and the engine has never experienced any amount of break up at high RPM. A common misconception perhaps...

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

Who told you that ?

A large cap electronic advance distributor works the same way as a small cap does. The rotor is locked to the shaft, with no mechanical movement. The difference is that the rotor is FARTHER away (in inches) to the terminal for the same number of degrees on the larger cap.

Remember, on an electronic distributor, when the coil is fired ADVANCED the rotor is NOT pointing at the terminal in the distributor. Which is why It is very important to have as much base advance as possible on a car which will have a lot of overall advance.


-- Joe

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

Interesting point and something i thought about. It seems the rotor would be half the crank degrees ahead. I wonder if the distributor trigger is moved any in regard to this issue. It seems that in conditions of high advance there would be more chance of re firing the previous cylinder.

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

It isn't an issue, the rotor and cap have longer 'contact' points to make up for the angle of rotation. GM wouldn't have retained the larger cap distributor into the the later L98 y-body years if there was an issue.

There are two parameters in the calibration that limit the angle that spark is allowed to occur. It is the maximum advance and maximum retard (minimum advance) parameters. These two calibration parameters are defined by the manufacturer of the distributor.

They are defined as +- from the point of the DRP. This is why increasing the base timing allows more 'at crank' timing.

As for too much advance causing the previous cylinder to fire, yes, that can occur when the maximum SA value has been increased. All it does is cause the engine to cut out until the SA is reduced to within the limits of the distributor.

RBob.

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

I suspect that was done for packaging. I owned one, the engine bay was tight. On stock cars that max out at 4500 RPM, I don't suspect an issue.

The base circle of the terminals for the rotor contact is still larger on the large cap HEI. The distance between the terminals is still greater.

edit: You guys are setting your coil dwell properly, right? I believe large cap is like 3.5 msec and small cap is 2.5 ?



-- Joe

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

Setting coil dwell? Is this a setting in the EBL editor. I haven't noticed this. Latency?

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

Yes sa latency, just as a example compare $8d aujp small cap remote coil to axcn bei coil in cap.

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

Arguing about small cap vs big cap distributor's is meaningless nowadays because such arguments are still being based on old big cap HEI complaints from back in the day, distributor's which were known to give up the spark ghost at 5000-RPM, and which were installed in vehicle's with clusters embellishing a redline in that general area. Meaning they were used on engines that didn't need to spin high, so why would GM make it any better than it needed to be? That is what the aftermarket is for. Why not just argue about horse-n-buggy vs the internal combustion engine, for that matter. Big cap HEI's have since been producing excellent spark energy for engines turning well over 7000-RPM thanks to the folks who run our ignition aftermarket, they have a better cooling effect from the epoxy to the vented heat sinc housing which is vastly superior to any leaky oil filled external coil, not to mention the reduction of any possible loss of spark intensity from the greater travel path required for the extra coil wire which essentially will create additional resistance from the increased spark pathway. Are we really arguing this lol...?

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

No, that's not true at all. I've already outlined why I don't use large cap HEI. There is another issue too, which is coil selection, there is dwell time which is RPM related.


So what your saying is a coil bolted to the top of the distributor will always have superior cooling?

Dude. It's not April fools day. Stop acting like a fool.

-- Joe

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

Maybe? I know back in 2008 when this was pointed out some folks on this forum didn't believe a difference existed. I don't know if the position has changed.

I know the aftermarket guys have always allowed you to adjust it based on what coil you are using. Traditionally large cap HEI was 3.5 msec, where small cap was 2.5. These are stock numbers. MSD blaster in cap HEI is 2.2 msec for example.

On a v8, you have 2.5 msec at 6,000 RPM to charge the coil. So obviously if you have a coil that needs 3.5 msec to saturate and you plan on running it at 6,000+ RPM you will lose spark energy at upper RPM.


-- Joe

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

No dwell setting to set in the EBL & GM ECMs. It is taken care of in the firmware. It is a combination of static and dynamic dwell. There is usually a low vehicle voltage dwell adder.

With the static being a 3-sloped line based on RPM. Dynamic being an increase in dwell on increasing engine load.

Note that GM used the same dwell constants for both large cap and small cap distributors.

RBob.

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

Unless GM does what they do best and mount the remote coil over the exhaust manifold...

RBob.

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

So they mimic'd the operation of the module. So you can't adjust this if you go with an aftermarket coil that has a different saturation rate?

I find it hard to believe GM uses the same dwell on both large and small cap distributors, when we know the large cap takes longer to charge.

Have you actually timed how long the trigger is grounded on an ECM bench?


Here is a good read:

http://www.dtec.net.au/Ignition%20Co...alibration.htm


Stock is good for stock. If GM did everything best in stock form we wouldn't be modifying anything.


-- Joe

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

Here is a calculator for those of you with aftermarket coils so you can get an idea of what your dwell settings should be:

http://www.useasydocs.com/theory/setdwell.htm


-- Joe

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

Thanks for the info everyone. I'm going to check into all this. As far as coil charge time i think the one I'm using needs too much time. 8mH is too high I believe. Although the way i understand it higher inductance means more spark energy (as opposed to voltage) and duration. Lower means faster charge but less available energy. I don't think it's quite that simplistic though.
As far as the cap diameter goes it seems both are capable of high performance even though each has its pros and cons. Large is convenient but bulky. I like the small for clearance when needed and coil selection is greater. Which may be a bad thing lol.

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

What is the part # of the coil, and what is the amperage?

I'm thinking that since it doesn't appear to be configurable, the best bet with the EBL is to use a stock coil. Last thing you want is an ignition problem.

-- Joe

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

Mountains from molehills.

Yes Joe, I've measured coil charge rates, dwell times, ICM current limits and so on. The way GM did the dwell calculations in the ECM works.

RBob.

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

Agreed!
It is MSD 8202 typical oil canister.
140mA 350uS 8mH.
No issues so far but I've only ran it for*3-400 miles and little high RPM use. Plus it has been very cold so heat is unchallenged. I'm considering it am experiment and an ignition module is expendable. Do you think it could harm the ecm?

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

Hello,

So assuming normal voltage, what is the actual dwell time on the ignition trigger ?

I realize that there is a compensation for battery voltage (increasing dwell as voltage decreases and visa versa) - they all do that. I'm curious what the actual running dwell is.


-- Joe

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

Joe, clearly you are the fool. You run a Megasquirt with NO datalogs, NO videos, all you have is conjecture and speculation. You don't run an EBL, and yet your always the first to speak as if you have tested it and know about it? Let's see what you have. Does your "600" horsepower engine even start? Does it run? Or does it just idle? Kindly remove your head from out of your ***, because the smell of being so full of it is making its' way through the screen.

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

Doubtful that you would have an ECM issue.

That coil is intended to be used with an MSD-6A ignition box. It needs almost 5msec (4.92) of dwell on a standard 12v system.

-- Joe

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

What are you talking about? I need datalogs and videos? No, I read the manual..

I do have a idle video on youtube when I first started the T76, but what does that prove?


I ran stock ECM's for over 10 years. The EBL is a stock ECM with some custom programming, and a build in kinda-sorta emulator. I'm not a moron.

I've pointed out technical documentation. Your inability to understand it is not my fault. The OP asked questions about aftermarket coils and the EBL. I pointed out what needs to be changed in aftermarket ECM's regarding different coils, and provided documentation and calculators.

It's not my fault if you don't have such capability in your ECM. Disregarding it as 'unnecessary' simply because the functionality is not available is BS. Trying to discredit me because you don't understand the tech of what I'm talking about is rather lame, and insulting.


-- Joe

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

... been running the Flamethrower coil w/fat cap MSD HEI in the EBL-P4 since 2003, have been beating on the engine as most here in New Jersey, as well as you yourself Bob, already know, not one hiccup. Had the spark cut set to 6200-RPM, and it gets that high naturally aspirated no problem and without any erratic readings, with boost the valve springs are too weak to go any higher. I would say there are absolutely no problems with the EBL-P4 handling aftermarket ignition upgrades, and I can verify this because I run an EBL-P4, and I also run an aftermarket ignition. Funny how the subject of "spark" comes from a handful of members who never exhibit anything factual, they just seem "to know" because they have a subscription to Super Chevy magazine. One of the main differences between this board and the other board that we're on Bob, and I am sure you are well aware. Guys don't waste their time arguing theory, nor do they speculate, as ET and traps do the talking for them to see if spark is ever an issue, and I can tell you right off the bat, that my buddy Murph with his superior LC2 ignition system and FAST XFI would experience a "spark" issue at higher RPM's running a coil pack, cam and crank sensor way before I do running an HEI, that is a fact because they have been tested right in front of me, and you can visually see the spark loss. I don't have time for conjecture, if it makes people feel important to act as if they know it all, then more power to them. My 383 is almost done being built, and I plan on even higher RPM's then the 305 test mule...

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

Absolutely no tech, no equations, no links to information in the above post. Just "I slapped it together and it make broom broom noise".

Why don't you sit down, re-read what I said, click on the links, READ THE SCIENCE, and then tell us why you think the science is wrong.

Or you can carry on and give folks something to laugh at.

If reading comprehension isn't your think, maybe some videos:







-- Joe

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

How does that work? Primary voltage on an HEI is just 12 volts, right?

5ms dwell = 1/200 sec for each spark, right?
3000 rpm * 4 spark/rev /60 sec/min = 200 spark per second.

So, above 3000rpm, there is less than 5ms available per spark. Or, using this coil driven at 12v should not run very well, especially at 3000rpm or abouve.

HOWEVER, you say the coil is intended to be used with an MSD-6A. The interwebz says the 6A provides 470v of primary coil voltage (530v for the new digital version). Assuming a linear equation and scaling the voltage increase (470v/12v = 39) will decrease the dwell time... 5ms / 39 = 0.12ms dwell (per spark) as the 6A's 470v. This allows enough dwell time for a V8 to run 117,000 rpm! Of course, that doesn't take into account discharge time, and the time gap between cylinders. So, even taking 0.12ms for each; dwell (charge), discharge, and delay between cylinders, still allows for 39,000rpm! :) That gives more than enough time to provide the "multiple spark" at lower RPM that it advertises. :) :)

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

Right - it's not a good choice for a normal 12v transistorized ignition. MSD recommends using it with their box.

hah, I don't know how their magic box works, I have not read the specs. My assumption is it increases the primary voltage to decrease dwell time, but then it sparks multiple times.. I don't know. I also know if you use one on an aftermarket ECM, you're supposed to change the ignition settings. The MS2 manual recommends setting the dwell to 25.5 and some other funkyness.


The coil I'm running is around 2.4 msec dwell @ 6A current, and so I have 2.5msec dwell on my ignition settings.

http://www.extraefi.co.uk/MS_Extra_S...l_Ignition.png

The above isn't my screen shot as I'm at work and my laptop is home, but just to give you an idea of the options.


-- Joe

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

Ok guys- can't we all get along?

I'm kinda somewhere in between here, as I presume a lot of people are...

I don't want to just "slap it on and hope it works" (although I sometimes do) nor do I want to get a degree in automotive ignition systems to make a choice.

As some have said staying with the stock ignition components is a safe bet and probably sufficient in most cases. As I understand it potential voltage means little as it will likely never get over 10-20Kv when the spark makes the jump, the rest if the energy is used in maintaining the spark duration. I don't believe I need a super exotic ignition system either. But I would like to OPTOMIZE my ignition system for the configuration I am running. With a mid-range amount of cam overlap and the fact the engine spends a lot of time in the 2000-3000RPM range I suspect, feel, fear etc. that I may be experiencing some mis-fires due to an inconsistent air/fuel charge at light load conditions. And quite frankly, I like fooling around with various systems enough to really screw them up- er I mean understand them enough to make some appropriate decisions. Even if that means staying stock.

Anyway, thanks for all the input. I appreciate it whether it is speculation, experience or technical reading. I have learned a lot more than I knew last month and can see that there is a whole lot more to coil selection than picking the one with the highest advertised voltage! I now know there isn't a setting in the EBL editor to change the dwell and I am probably using a coil which isn't the best choice. As with most everything else it comes down to choosing the right components which match the application. I'm not there yet but I am trying to educate myself- so keep the comments coming.

One side question, could I take an old fashion dwell meter and at least measure the electronically controlled dwell? I'm not quite clear if this would give me usable data especially since Bob indicated the dwell time is rpm and load sensitive, but it could be a start.

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

Does anyone know what current the small cap ignition draws? I found a formula to calculate a coils charge time based on volts, amps and induction. 12 volts and coils list inductance but I don't know the amps. Looks like 4, 6 & 7 are common but that doesn't help much.

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

Edit: I screwed up the math on that. Let me get back to this thread later, I've got to finish up a project.


-- Joe

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

Lol, No worries Joe. I appreciate your help.

This is an excerpt from an article I found at http://www.gofastforless.com/ignition/howig.htm

"You can calculate how long it takes for a coil to charge with this formula, T = ( L * I ) / V where T is time in seconds, L is inductance in henries, I is amps, and V is volts. Say you have a 7 millihenry coil and want to charge it to 6 amps with 14 volts. T = ( .007 * 6 ) / 14 It will take 3 milliseconds (0.003 sec.) for the coil to reach six amps."

Using the article you referenced (before deleting it) the small cap GM distributor is "typically" 2.5ms dwell.

Using a 6000RPM shift point (which is about right for my car) we get 2.5ms between sparks. (6000/60=100x4=400, 1/400=0.0025) Assuming "some" time for the spark to occur, I need a coil which will saturate in less than ~2ms. Now, if GM sets the dwell @ 2.5ms and then trims some at higher rpm it would seem about right.

Using the formula in the article and assuming 6amps and the MSD 8202 coil's advertised 8mH rating we get (.008x6)/14 = 3.5ms to saturate. Too long for GM's dwell. But I have assumed the 6 amps so I don't really know.

Working the other way around (still assuming 6amp and an arbitrary 2ms charge time) I need a coil with inductance of 4.6mH. (.002x14)/6=0.0046..
However, if the ICM charges the coil at 5amp then a coil with 5.6mH is indicated. Changing the voltage to 12vdc changes it to 4.8mH.
Variables.... variables.... variables....

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

This is probably why people slap parts together, and spend 6 months chasing a 'tuning problem' that's actually an ignition problem :)

So, for the life of me I cannot remember how I calculated primary amperage for the coil I'm using (without a scope).

I thought it was simple, but I double checked my bookmarks and everything involved having a scope or asking the MFG. I bought the coil in 2012, so maybe that's what I did.

I assumed 6 AMP for yours for two reasons.

1) I found the dwell on a spreadsheet on some dudes website (4.92)
2) I entered the other numbers into the calculator, selected 6A, and got the same dwell. (4.92)

Now, of course, if both me and the other dude 'assumed' 6A and got it wrong, your dwell number is wrong.

This is the calc I use:

http://www.useasydocs.com/theory/setdwell.htm

Your coil, resistance .700 ohm, inductance 8 Mh, amperage 6A.

My coil is:

Resistance .450 ohm, inductance 6.6 Mh, amperage 5A I get 3.05 dwell.
(which is still not good for 6,000+ RPM but closer).

Now I'm second guessing where I got the 5 Amp measurement from :(

The above calculator uses the resistance and inductance to calculate how long it will get to target amperage. I don't know how to calculate what target amperage will be ?


-- Joe

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

I'm still seeing mountains where molehills should be...

The GM 048, 036 and 369 small cap ICMs all current limit at 5.8 amps.

With a GM V8 small cap E coil reaching that limit in 3.55 msec at 13.8 volts.

At 6,000 RPM a plug fires every 2.5 msec. However, there is also a .6 msec minimum firing time. So the dwell will be 1.9 msec.

Still works with V8 engines being shifted at 6,200 to 7,000 RPM.

Heck, I'm even running GM CnP coils on a boosted engine with the same dwell logic. Works great.

RBob.

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

This thread really is getting out of hand, and the only purpose it seems to serve is for some ridiculous pissing contest. Bottom line is any real tuner will measure dwell using an oscilloscope on the primary side of the coil BEING USED, and not just rely on the data from its' spreadsheet. There are only two reasons to "control" dwell, and that is if battery voltage drops, then the energy in the coil decreases, and the other is if the battery voltage rises, then the coil will overheat, both resulting in loss of power. If you are going to tune just those two areas, then you have other problems my friends, as your only putting a tuning band aid on a "cheap" ignition system, using a "cheap" ECU system, for a "cheap" engine build. In a properly built and working ignition system, the proper discharge will remain in tact, constantly, and if it faults, then FIX IT, don't "tune" around it! Jeezuz Christimas...

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

Hey Bob, whaddya say we install a flux capacitor into the GTA, take a trip back to 1967, and tell the folks over at Chevy still developing the DZ302 that it just won't work well for them above 6000-RPM without being able to control dwell. Perhaps they would have won... oh wait, they did win. ;)

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

It's not a pissing contest, we're discussing coil tech.


I'm not going to engage in a debate about the necessity to control dwell with you. That topic has been covered by engineers a lot smarter than both of us, and is well established.

For example:

"The 7-pin HEI module limits the current to about 8.5 to 10 Amps at the module. This can get designers into trouble because the module will not stay in that state for long without overheating and going into thermal shutdown. With the a component being a Darlington transistor, the thermal transition can happen with little warning. This can happen at normal rpms (below 3,000 on a V8) if dwell times are not correctly calculated by the ECU."


Again, you don't really quite understand what your talking about, and there is nothing wrong with that. But I don't quite understand why your staking a position on something that you know nothing about, and have read very little on.

Perhaps you are butt hurt because you think I'm dissing the EBL, which we all know you are an epic fanboy off. That is not the case at all, in fact if you search this forum I've recommended EBL a number of times to people. The EBL is the perfect solution for people that are, well, people like you. People who don't completly undertand EFI, but need a system that is easy enough to tune, but more importantly get superior tech support. The MS stuff on the other hand, is adamantly too complex for folks like you. You probably couldn't even get the firmware loaded up. I'm starting to think that is by design.


Now back to the topic.

I found this article earlier:

http://cyberdave.org/HEICoilInfo.html


Not a bad read.


The GM CnP coils, AFAIK, have built in dwell calcs. (at least that is what I've read regarding their use).


I guess I don't understand why some of you don't think the coil should be matched with the ECM..


I think that if you use a stock coil for the application, you're probably fine. But using an aftermarket coil I think you really need to have your ignition settings on target AND make sure the coil is going to work for the application.


-- Joe

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

Thank you and sorry if I am one of the mountain makers. If so it's only because of my ignorance, which is precisely what I'm trying to correct. I don't think I will likely get all this in the end but I do understand a lot more than I did. The megasquirt manual looks daunting. EBL is a life saver for the in-between tuners like me. I appreciate you, Joe and SL too. All of you have helped me and I'm sure you'll do so in the future.

Although in the end how my engine preforms may matter little whether I use a recommended coil or become educated enough to make a choice based on facts and my own interpretation of what my engine wants. It is more satisfying to better understand why one components works better than the other.

Thanks again everyone. I'm still reading and trying to comprehend it all.

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

It isn't you...

Recall early on in this thread that I am using a Summit house coil on one vehicle. And that it idled smoother and had better tip-in response. This is an oil canister coil meant for nothing but coil duty. It is a run of the mill, made in USA (important), $18 coil.

Why did it work better, I don't know. Went back and forth between it and the stock GM E coil. It is better, don't care why, it is still in place. Although I'd bet the E coil is less expensive to manufacture, which is the real reason it is used.

I guess what I'm trying to say is to not over think it. GM has a track record of producing the best ignition systems. They know that good ignition is what provides the low emissions, improved mileage, and most performance out of an engine.

There is good information out there, and a lot of bad information. I just go with what works.

RBob.

Re: EBL & aftermarket coils
 

Ant, don't ever get caught up with tuning that deeply into it. Most tuners who have the ability to tune as precise as some of the systems will allow them to will never really push their engines that hard to reap the benefits. I read all the time how this system does this, and this system does that, but these are the projects that remain projects and never see the light of day, and they are also the problem projects and can never be fully enjoyed, which is what this hobby is all about. I say this from experience, and I try to give as factual of information as I can...

I can spend the day dialing in my tune to perfection, then pull up next to a carbed SBC with an old points ignition system who would literally clean my clock at the track, and that really happened. Had a ten second Toyota MR2 turbo run his mouth in the lanes one season asking everyone for a run for a hundred bucks, when he got to me I pointed to that carbed SBC and said go ask him, and the guy's response was "are you crazy", as even he knew not to mess with it. I cannot vouch for any other aftermarket ignition system being used with the EBL-P4 other than the one I am running because I haven't tried them just yet, but what I have does in fact work. Take what everyone says like a grain of salt, including me, but one thing is for sure, the track has the final say. Always...