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AutoProm Project 1 Attachment(s) Any ideas? |
Golly, Gee What pray tell is it?. Looks like a, but it can't do all that, can it? |
Where can I get mine???? |
Well, WWW.AutoPro.net goes no where. Where did you get it? |
Hummm.... and electronic bit manipulator with a serial and floppy port? I obviously don't have a clue but.... www.autoprom.net doesn't go anywhere either. BTW, I orderd some chips and paid with Paypal a few hours ago. Thanks for your efforts and creativity in the PROM world! Oh, and do I need one of those?!? |
I like how the chips are blacked out. |
Is it finished yet aand availible to the eagerly awaiting public?! |
That wouldn't happen to be the much awaited Prominator, would it? |
Originally posted by Morley That wouldn't happen to be the much awaited Prominator, would it? |
So what is it? Don't leave us hanging!! |
TEASE! |
i think after you tell us, i sill will be like this... :confused: it looks like some type of computer thing... hehehe <----- totaly clueless on prom stuff. |
Originally posted by Morley That wouldn't happen to be the much awaited Prominator, would it? Where'd you get that, Craig? |
That thingie just so happens to be missing! Missing from my possession that is :D . |
I'll bet that "thingie" is the next offering from moates.net. Programming on the fly perhaps? BTW, nice blockout job on the board URL Craig! |
i know what that thingy is. craig told me to keep a tight lip abot it. that thingy if from what he' told me should be a aldl, eprom emulator and flash chip programmer. all buss'd up and the serial com. criag good to see it finished :doh: |
Folks, Disclosure time I guess, since Sean has decided to spoil everyone's fun :rolleyes:. Here's what I PLAN for it to do. Keep in mind that this is only a 2nd generation prototype with testing well under way. I honestly don't know how long it will take to get everything working perfectly, but just wanted to give you guys a taste of what I have planned. 1) Emulation of 24 and 28 pin EPROMs, such as 2732A, 27C128, 256, and 512. Hoping for ability to do realtime updates without ECM interruption. Nonvolatile memory means no battery backup needed. Unit is powered from target device (ECM). External power port (>+6v,ie. 12v) also available. Compatible with TunerCat RT. 2) Programming of Flash Prom chips 29C256 and 27SF512. It's set up so that you can burn the 'last emulation buffer content' to a chip, or upload a file or whatever. That way, when you're done emulating, you just burn a chip and pop it in. You need to program other types of chips? This unit won't do it (yet). 3) ALDL datalogging through the same port as that used for emulation. This means one laptop, one serial cable, one host software program. Should be able to do this simultaneously at 115,200 baud. The 160 and 8192 baud data will be 'uplinked' to 115,200 through the onboard micro. The ALDL cable consists of a 3-conductor stereo mini-headphone jack on both the AutoProm and ALDL connector end (yes, there's a piece on the ALDL end of the business too). If all goes well, it will have full compatibility with Moates software, DataMaster, WinALDL, etc. 4) On-board bootloader provides the end user the ability to update the firmware (Atmega128-based) as works-in-progress come about. This is done through the host PC through the same serial port, no need for additional connectors. There's LOTS of code so far, and much more room on the chip. I assure you, there's much that can be done 'Auto'matically in future revisions, hopefully with the same hardware base. 5) FANTASTIC software support from a REAL programmer (not me!). Mark Mansur is in the house! (insert cheers of joy here) He's providing FULL windows-based programming prowess on this project. I'm handling the firmware and hardware end. Might have a barebones DOS-based deal, but probably not since Mark is doing such a great job. His software presently is talking with my hardware, and they're getting along pretty well. It will cover all the bases, from graphical BIN editing to realtime EMU support to simultaneous datalogging / plotting / analysis. Please note that the AutoProm is not intended as a replacement or competition for any of the following: PocketProgrammer, TunerCat, or other commercial products. AKMCable, WinALDL, Prominator, or other DIY-type projects. It is, however, intended to make a DIY tuner's life just a little bit more enjoyable. Maybe a little easier, but that's not the point really. The point here is to learn about automotive tuning and control systems, right? That being said, here is the status to date: The good: - Circuit design, component sourcing, and construction of initial prototypes well advanced. Completed unit in hand and under testing. (80% done, probably 2-3 more revisions coming) - AutoProm-to-PC communications working great, shown as very robust. Binary uploads / downloads and a host of command structures work fine. - Firmware continues to evolve. Lots of code already, and more added daily. Debugging is arduous, but definitely educational. It's a powerful little chip. - Bootloading function works fine. Might make some changes, but base case in place and functional. - ALDL connector fabricated, workable. Done for OBD1, maybe OBD2 coming for 94/95 LT1 guys. - 29C256 chip programming works fine & dandy, very repeatable. - Comes with a 'cool' plastic case (you'll see eventually). Tested it, and the unit actually does fit in your pocket ;^) The 'getting better' or 'bad': - Emulation on my 1227165 not working yet. Works if you try and read the AutoProm header connector through a PocketProgrammer as though it was a chip, but not yet as connected to an ECM. All the fundamental design character is there, but I need to spend more time with the oscilloscope, my corpse of a test mule, the mosquitoes, and a sweat bath. I've got some solid ideas of where to go with it. It's not a matter of whether it will work, but when. - ALDL pass-through compatibility (Datamaster, etc) tested, but not working yet (may need to simplify circuit actually). ALDL data translation to 115,200 is similarly positioned in terms of testing. - It won't be a permanent-install unit, and you won't be able to link to it with a parallel port. Also, it will probably require Win95 or better to support the MansurWare. - It's kinda expensive to make, but I didn't want to skimp on the design too much either. Pricing should be around $300 or so. - My wife would rather I spend time/money on other things ;^) So now you know. I'll pre-empt questions: Q: When will it be ready? A: I don't know. Soon I hope, I'm working on it like every other day when I can. If I had to guess, I'd say by Thanksgiving. Q: Can we pre-order? A: No. I'm doing this as a challenge to myself to see if it can work. I don't want to sell them until I'm happy. I might sell some early versions with LIMITED functionality (ie. proven 29C256 programming) for cheap rather than let them pile up on the scrapheap though. Q: Is this cutting into sales of other people's stuff? A: I hope not, that's not my intent at all. That stuff is still available separately for reasonable cost. If the consensus is that this project spoils someone else's fun (ie. they were here first), then apology is offered. Q: Is this a ripoff of someone else's idea? A: No way. I've tried my best to make sure that all the design elements I'm using are either self-generated or blatantly public domain. Q: Does this device support LT1Edit and LS1Edit functionality? What about OBD2 datalogging? Can I hook my wideband sensor to it? Will this device automatically tune my car? Support USB? 10BaseT? 802.11b? A: No, not yet anyways. Although, 802.11b would be pretty cool! So there's the disclosure, all the info I have right now. I've been working on it for a while now, maybe 6 months. Hopefully you guys can just be patient. I'll give a 'heads-up' as progress continues to be made. See ya, -Craig |
Sean.. baaadd.. :p Craig... goood.. :D And the options keep coming.. Life is good. BW |
Ok, not to break up the party here, but explain to me in simple terms of what this will do for me? I need like almost baby talk hehehe. I have absolutly no idea, and i belive you guys have just stopped me from switching over to EE. So yea, basicly tell me what this will do to help me gain the best performance from my car? |
Its not going to give you better performance for your car. Its going to simplify the tuning process, in turn making it more enjoyable to tune your car for better performance. If you are just getting into tuning (like me), the benifits here will not excite you as much as it will for the people who have been tuning from the beginning (but still very exciting hehe). First off, this is replacing the need for: 1. specific blank chips for your ECM, 2. a chip burning device, and 3. a UV chip eraser (not previously needed if using EEPROMS). Now you just have one device. Then as for simplifying the process: Old style = modifying the tune in the editor, burning a chip, popping it into the ECM, testing it out and pulling scans/making notes, removing the chip, erasing the chip, back to the tuning program to make changes, burning a new chip, etc. New style = make change in real time with tuning software, flash it to the ECM (no burning or swapping), pull scans in real time/make notes, make changes in real time, etc. Then on top of that, better use of the ALDL connection, and the ability to upgrade the firmware for later updates. Its a great device!! |
Okay Craig.. pretty neat. I have a couple of questions: If I understand it correctly, this device not only emulates various EPROM's, but it also programs a couple of flash ROM's - correct? So in essence, it's a Romulator with a built-in programmer for a final chip? What's the IDC connector at the top of the picture for? |
Originally posted by CrazyHawaiian Its not going to give you better performance for your car. Its going to simplify the tuning process, in turn making it more enjoyable to tune your car for better performance. If you are just getting into tuning (like me), the benifits here will not excite you as much as it will for the people who have been tuning from the beginning (but still very exciting hehe). First off, this is replacing the need for: 1. specific blank chips for your ECM, 2. a chip burning device, and 3. a UV chip eraser (not previously needed if using EEPROMS). Now you just have one device. Then as for simplifying the process: Old style = modifying the tune in the editor, burning a chip, popping it into the ECM, testing it out and pulling scans/making notes, removing the chip, erasing the chip, back to the tuning program to make changes, burning a new chip, etc. New style = make change in real time with tuning software, flash it to the ECM (no burning or swapping), pull scans in real time/make notes, make changes in real time, etc. Then on top of that, better use of the ALDL connection, and the ability to upgrade the firmware for later updates. Its a great device!! Now this is what i think i understand... help me if im wrong This will replace the PROM. From this, you can plug in some type of serial or some other sort of cable into this and change the information using 1 software program. This will now be stored in some type of memory and the car will use this info. Now, do i need to keep a laptop connected to this thing or is there anything that has to be kept plug into this thing due to lack of memory for the information or is it just plug, dial in tuning, and unplug, race? This is pretty amazing and you guys are friggin nuts... but this stuff is getting crazy. Im just breaking the surface of understanding how to read my ALDL info, then ill start "emulating" and what not. Thanks for the help! Alex |
Originally posted by Ken73 What's the IDC connector at the top of the picture for? |
i swear i wasnt trying to ruin anybodys fun :eek: |
Originally posted by funstick i swear i wasnt trying to ruin anybodys fun :eek: |
Computer tech here, your welcome to email me if you think it is in my scope. Maybe for all the help you guys have given me I can return the favor and get your laptop to boot.. Anyhow drop me a mail if you think i can be of service.. Sky@skyscomputers.com |
Originally posted by JPrevost Memcal. Some cars need that, others have an ESC :p . That's not correct though... |
Originally posted by Craig Moates Good guess! That's the kinda fun I was talking about. That's not correct though... |
WOW , |
OMIGOSH Ya know, I wish you people would quit teasing us like this! Hehehe Really, I just wish I had the knowledge to come up with something like this myself! I know the very basics of electronics, but when you get into IC's, I'm a bit lost! I'm excited to get into ECM programming (I think it's getting close to time to quit calling it prom burning!) and I think I'm in about the right timeframe to be doing so! Some cool gadgets coming soon for the DIY ecm peeps! So basicly you turned a OBD1 into a OBD2 that you can change on the fly in real time instead of playing with chips correct? Now for what would really be cool, is if you could do it all from the ALDL! Ok, it is awesome that you will only need to plug one cable into the laptop, and not have to switch, have 2 laptops, etc.... |
Do you have any type of interface to the DIY-WB? That would be really cool if you could log real time WB info too. |
Craig, I'm sure you get asked this all the time, but around how long before you start getting these out the door? Also, a question was asked that I didn't see an answer for, I'm guessing from the looks of it there is an on board chip that will have the current program on it, meaning the laptop doesn't have to stay plugged in. Is this correct? |
Just to let you know, you have one eager customer awaiting your product right here. I did not have the motivation to concentrate on that end of things when building the fuel system for my fathers C3, but I probably should of. It has been 2 years and we are on our 436the revised fuel map and burned chip. We still have some fine tuning left to do and there is the additional gizmo and modification made here and there so we are still revising fuel maps from time to time. We are getting 367 HP out of a modified LTR setup and at this point 300 dollars for change on the fly would be very welcome. Not to mention If your device needs a real world workout in the hands of a couple of engineers, we would be glad to help. Why didn't we got to an aftermarket ECM some may ask? Well after the 70th chip we felt he had to much homework done on the 730. At 436 you can bet all the pennys in your banl we are a little hesitant about throwing all the tuning out the window and starting over again. This is the perfect comprimise!!!! Great work!!! |
It seems like it's almost DFI ! If these become available for purchase before the end of the year, then I'm in and wont have to go spend a boat load on the F.A.S.T. DFI setup! Nice work again Craig! You ARE the brain-a-holic ! Can one of you moderators make this a sticky?!!! :) |
:hail: :hail: :hail: |
Originally posted by Axoid :hail: :hail: :hail: I also vote for a sticky!! |
Whats up guys. I just got back from hawaiian vacation (during which Craig called and let me know he's spilled the beans), so I thought I'd chime in with a quick (and small) screenshot of the latest software. BTW, GMECM Edit is being renamed to TunerPro... Here are some of the new features so far (with a bit to go before release): TunerPro Free - 3D graphing capabilities with point selection/drag and mouse/keyboard rotation and translation (control-click and shift-click or Arrow keys) - Compare 4 bins at once (formerly just 1 was available). Switch between them with quick keys (Ctrl + bin number). - Now you can change the workspace background color (preferences menu). - Pretty new splash screen at startup (dismissable by left clicking on it or in the workspace). - Stability and user experience improvements (for instance, ECU item duplicate checking upon creation). - Sticky/Docking windows. Toolboxes stick to each other (and desktop edges) and the main app window. When moving app window, all docked windows move too. - Added 1k bin/chip/block size to the bin stacker (by request). TunerPro RT - XTronics Romulator and Moates AutoProm support. Now you can make changes in real-time! - ALDL Data Monitoring (the beginnings of it anyway). Check out just a few of the obvious new features in this screen: <image src="http://gmecmedit.markmansur.com/TunerPro.jpg"> Mark |
<------- is now cross-eyed because of so much info.... |
holy sh**:eek: that is cool!:D you guys :yourock: |
Wow. Please get this puppy ready to be shipped out the door, I'd like to get into tuning soon and would love to only have to buy one set of equipment ;) |
3D tables, ecu file support, RT and Moates hardware support... Truely wonderful. I'll have to drink to this! http://www.click-smilie.de/sammlung0...l/Fool/alc.gif |
This is fantastic stuff. Will it eventually allow a standard (erased) memcal to be re-burned if plugged into the ZIF socket with an adapter? If so, how long might it be before you do the mod to allow this? John |
Dam... im still confused, but I want in! This is gunna bring a lot of new comers into DIY board... Im ready for playing with my ECM! |
Uh you cannot erase a standard eprom electronically. only an eeprom can be reflashed without the use of ultraviolet light. These guys are good but not that good. |
Originally posted by DAVECS1 Uh you cannot erase a standard eprom electronically. only an eeprom can be reflashed without the use of ultraviolet light. These guys are good but not that good. I thought I had obviated the need for a response like yours by using the term "standard (erased) memcal" but let me explain that by "erased" I mean the past tense of the verb "to erase", implying that before inserting it into the AutoProm, it is already full of FF's. John |
ok guys, take it easy. JohnL, the answer is yes. |
Thanks Mangus- I love your work :) |
Actually, the device (AutoProm) will only program 29C256 (5v programming) and 27sf512 (12v programming). So that kinda leaves 'stock' PROMs (12.5v, etc) out in the cold. But like Mark says in response to the 'eventually?' question, yes. Just not real soon. |
Cool stuff Craig! You know what might be nice... some additional A/Ds onboard. I'd love to be able to monitor more stuff (steering inputs, g-forces) while autocrossing, and having it in one connection to a laptop. Just some wishful thinking! |
If you use a 7730, can't you just use some of the extra space in it and play with some code to get it into the datastream? I'm working with the source code right now trying to get a grasp on it (right now, I'm just reading it as I put all the comments in line) so I should be able to answer my own question in time! |
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