best 3rd gen to restore
 

lately i've been watching the classifieds, and there is a decent amount of cheap 3rd gens. , but they all need a lot of work. is it worth restoring them? what do ya'll figure is the best year / model for restoring? i'll probably wind up with a rs, or z28 with a v6, because its cheapest. i'm hoping to be able to scrounge up enough cash to be able to buy a camaro, and fix it up some so that when i get my drivers liscense in a year and a half i'll have a decent vehicle...... i can dream anyways.... i got the time, and tools, now i just gotta get the camaro.

well dude they only got better as the years went on from what i have heard. 90-92 will have air bags so if safty is on your list then go with one of thoes I had a 91 305 and was very happy with it.

im quire partial to the 85-89 cars. i like the dash much better in those years. however you cant beat the look of a 91/2 Z28. your not gonna find a Z with a six cylinder in it, never was. and as far as the airbag goes, i donno if that would help you or hurt you in an accident. those are old gen one bags. if it still works and does go off its gonna hit you awful hard. hope my opinion helps.
matt

Go for it, 3rd Gen are the best
 

I have a 88 Camaro, I have found it well worth the effort. They are inexspensive to work on and parts are easy to come by. I got the 305 and i love the HP in it, I have even blown a feww Mustangs off the road with it,, lol.

Mine was one that was considered into the grave yard, but i resued it. All they need is a little TLC, also as long as the sub frame is not messed up you can do anything to them.Here is a pic of min the day i got it.

Attachment 129764

If you're looking for something to keep and have some potential value down the road get a TPI car. However, no matter what kind of car you decide to buy, go out and get the best car you can afford. Too many people buy the cheapest car they find and realize that everything on it needs to be replaced. It's much cheaper in the long run to spend a little extra for a nicer car than it is to buy a cheap one that needs everything. Remember, all the little things that are usually wrong with really cheap cars usually add up to a LOT more money than you would expect!!!

i actually hoped i didn't have airbags. i never liked 'em anyways. i called on a camaro today, and the guy said he had 3:10 gearing in his rear axles, but it was just his guess. is there a such thing as 3:10 gearing? it sounded like bs to me but i didn't know. i kinda like the 91 3rd generation rs.

no 3.10s in a Camaro of any year. The 3rd gens will have 2.73 or 2.77, 3.23 or 3.27, 3.42 or 3.45. Am I missing any?

what about 3.08 and 3.73? they made those too

I'll second what LFN AT U said.

I was in the same position you're in a few years ago and definitly it's worth it to save up your money and buy the best possible car that you can afford.

I agree with everyone here about buying the "best" car you can, but there is also those of us that like a challenge in a restoration. Your buddies and wife laugh and snicker about the piece of junk you bought, then you take them for a ride in it a few years later. If you just want to buy and drive- save up. If you want to restore, figure how much you want to spend, what your time frame is, and what your skill level is. The parts guys need to make a living after all- lol

Buy the car with the best BODY you can find. Rust free, minimal body work, straight panels, and did I say NO RUST!? You wont find one with good paint so dont worry about that. (The following is assuming you plan on doing major drivetrain work, which is a must if you want to build a screamer) The only drivetrain issues to worry about is whether or not it has a V8. Any V8 car, any year, with a good body is a good place to start. Dont forget that any Sport Coupe or RS varies minimally from any IROC or Z/28. The only major differences were the engines, and likely the suspension. And of course, the badges and therefore the image, so dont worry about what other people think when they see it. They are basically the same car.

None of them are really worth anything. 89-92 seem to run the best. I would say don't waste your money on anything less then a 350.

Go with whatever you like the best.

Problem here is that REALLY narrows it down. Look at how many clean, straight, rust free, V8 third gens there are. Compare that to the number of clean, straight rust free, 350 cars. Stock vs stock, the 350 is not much better than the 305 TPI, which itself isnt exactly "worlds" ahead of the 305 TBI. I would say get a car with a clean body, then swap in whatever small block suits your needs. Pretty much any small block combo you can get your hands on is nice and comfy in a 3rd gen. :) Not to mention cheap!

If you're going to restore it, get a carbed model, 83-85 or so.
There's less crap to cut out, and have go wrong. Simpler is better.

What's the BS chip in key stuff? (forget the name) Yea, another good reason to avoid the later ones.

I'd avoid '82, because they were still working out the bugs. '84 is my favorite year of Z-28, and i'll be getting one sooner or later here :)
A mint '84 is what i'd do. Mint body, no motor. Done and done.

the "chip in the key" isnt a chip at all in our cars. its a resistor pellet. the computer reads the resistance, if it isnt the right resistance, car will not start. the system is called "VATS" vechile anti-theft system. i have a vats system in my 89 and have had no problems with it. i think it gives me some peice of mind, makes it harder to steal. if someone cant steal a car in a few seconds, they arent going to bother. i dont want some stupid young punk stealing my car.

If you can, get the RPO codes, and use the decoder to find out what rear it has. Best way to be sure, unless of course, its been swapped.

As for your original question, look at the cars on the site, and find the best sample of what you like. I personally like the T/A with pre-91 ground effects, so that is what I have and intend to buy in the future. If you like the simpler look of the base model, you can get that with a V8 or a Formula, which you'll probably swap out in any case. And so on and so on. As stated earlier, with few exceptions they're all about the same as far as value. You might as well go with what you like.

I picked up a 91 RS V6 from a guy that had taken it away from his daughter for sneaking out with her boyfriend and doing drugs(!). It was straight, rust free and had the cool ground effects.
The trans let go 30 days after I bought it, but I still love the thing and plan on keeping it FOREVER!
I am learning as I work on it, and one day, this or another 91-92 is getting a ground up rebuild and and LS1!
Find a straight body with a clean interior(relatively)- everything else is just 'par for the course'... welcome to the 'Third Gen Itch'!

If I ever bought a thirdgen camaro that needed a little restore work, I would want to find a deal on a later model convertible. Thats kind of personal preference though, it wouldn't be my only thirdgen and I'd mostly want it to have something a little different. A convertible is not the best choice for a fast, high performance car but a good choice for a car to just cruise around in.

Look at the Auto Detailing forum. There's an active thread now on how much $$ people have spent on their cars. I've been trying to tell people for years that you're better off spending more up front and getting a clean car than you are buying cheap and trying to fix it up. Plus, the amount of money spent on a month in repairs could be turned into a payment on a more expensive model. If you can afford a couple hundred a month in repair money, then you can afford a small loan and make monthly payments. And you can enjoy the car now, not a year or two when you get it "almost" done!

I have invested over $20,000 into a car that will proably not bring that much back for a long time, BUT I have enjoied the journey, I would do it all over again but I would probably start with a more desirable car.

Here is what you want to find IF your going to do this as a long time investment: THere are 2 scenerios and they cant be combined:
Scenerio 1:
--T-Tops (love em or hate em they help they help the salability of the car
--350 or better, Because only 2 cars had anything better the 350 is a safe bet, but this will limit you to 1987 - 1992 for searching for cars.
-- Otions, Options, Options, I think I need to say it again, OPTIONS. People like Power windows, Locks, Cruise, rear defog, A/C, Hatch release, delay Wipers, Overhead consoles, Digital Dashes, Power mirrors, The more the better.
-- Color is a personal preference, but Red & Black are usually the best bet, then there is Yellow & Silver, followed by Blue, White, Green, Purple etc.

Basically always think this way. If there were 2 cars sitting next to each other both identical except for this one thing which one would you expect to sell first.

Scenerio 2:
1LE Factory Race car. Must have no opions, Must have 1LE on SPID sheet, no AC, no power goodies, only Gas, Tires & Oil...

There is no replacement for the joy and satisfaction of knowing you did the work yourself. Likewise there is no replacement for the experience, I would say that most people here would not replace the money they spent on the experience for those who have done it, but they will admit (most of them at least) that it was worth it. But make sure its worth doing, an RS, Sport Coupe, base firebird, or a car that will not give you a return for your time probably will be more dishartening, pay the extra money for a better start.

:2cents:

John

i'm not buying this as an investment. just a driving car.i gotta love the convertibles,but i'dhate to see one get stole. i've had a car broken into twice, and a boat stole.( and i wish i coulda caught the @##'s that did it) i don't know how long the thing would last with those punks....
are the t-tops on 3rd gens the ones that come off, and go in the trunk, or do they slide back into the roof? i never could figure that out. a v8 would be sweet but gas is gonna kill me if i had one. some one said the older camaro's v8's got under 10 mpg. thats what scared me.
i hear what ya'll say about rust. that was my first priority for buying one. no rust and clean interior/ runs. the body and the interior can make some serious problems for me. engine/ driveline and axles all can be worked on.i did the math, and at minimum wage, i can have enough saved up to buy a decent one in six months(not including taxes, or social security)

The t-tops come off the car. They may look cool when they are off but they also seem to create a lot of problems, the main problem is them leaking water and ruining the interior by making it moldy. If you really like how a t-top car looks then buy a t-top car. Plus, like already mentioned, a t-top car is worth a little more

You might want to check out your auto insurance rates for a V8 vs. V6 car and factor that in to your budget too. For a V6 I would recommend the 91-92thirdgen with the 3.1, but only because of personal preference for the 3.1. Also you would be getting a "newer" car that would probably have fewer little things going wrong all the time. Stay away from the '82-'84 V6 cars with CC carbs - they have next to no HP and you don't want the neighbor kids laughing at you when they pass you on their tricycles.:)

Good luck on your search.

If you're looking into buying a V6 camaro, give your head a shake. Just forget it, and go buy a honda to drive to the grocery store.

V6 camaros ('cept the turbo's), are a waste of metal, the only saving grace they have is people can buy them cheaply, and put in a V-8.

Any car driven hard enough, can get 10mpg. It's all in how you drive.

So... You're around 14 years old then? hooboy, I shoulda read the first post more carefully...

No matter what you think it will eventually become an investment. I forgot the Vert in my above list.

Back in the 70's yeah sure I could imagine 10 mpg, even with an LG4 or L69 the MPG was not that great but better than 10 mpg.

My LB9 (TPI 305) Automatic, with a mild cam, headers, larger runners, 3.73 Axel Gear, I still get about 22 on the highway, around town I get around 17 ish. My 89 Vert with a big ole gas hog of a 350 however I got an honest 25mpg on the highway and around 19 or 20 around town. Neither one of my cars are all that bad IMHO, but they are BOTH Fuel Injection.

Before my swap to TPI, my engine was the same, but I got much worse Fuel Milage, I gained about 4 MPG average just from the swap to TPI, so it is worth it.

John

It's an F-Body, Get a V8! Also, look into insurance. A V8 rear wheel drive car is going to rape you.

why dont you get something relatively small and front wheel drive for a first car. MANY people wreck their first car... That way you could drive that and save up money for a nice 3rd gen later. that would be the best idea in the long run but im sure u wont listen cause u "want one now"...ive been there too. when i wanted a 3rd gen no one couldve convinced me otherwise. Whatever you do, good luck and be careful with it :)

I didn't wreck my first car, somoene backed into me in a parking lot I was not even around :mad: Fortunately I still have the car, unfortunately it was House of Kolor Candy Apple Red and the bump show was unable to match it exactly. :(


As far as insurance prices, the insurance is about the same on my Wifes 98 Chevy Venture Mini Van ;)

John

everyone is different. I've had a couple accidents but I never hit another car and my accidents weren't that major and I was 19 by then anyway. I've been driving since I was at least 11 because I got relatives that live on the farm so I wasn't like a 16 year old who never got behind the wheel before. I've been a thirdgen owner since age 14.

My insurance was cheap on my V8 when I was a teenager. Get this, for some reason my 92 V6 costs more for insurance than my 86 V8 (LG4) right now.

THats because the 92 is a newer car, its also rated at more HP or about the same as the 86 LG4. :rolleyes:

JOhn

I was looking at 900 bucks every 6 months just for liability. It's quite expensive when you're 16. I have my car under my dad's name and it's much much cheaper.

i'm impressed. you can count.(musta had your shoes off 'cause its over ten)

since we're all talking over the net here, i'll give you the benefit of the doubt that your not quite as big of an ******* as you came across as. i may want a v8 but ya don't always get what ya ant. if it's gonna it's gonna be that much more money then it just ain't possible. unless i win the lotto it'll probably be whats cheaper. i just want one for cruisin', not street racing or **** like that. i'm surprised you'd call any 3rd gen a waste of metal. your on a camaro site here for crying out loud.

anyways..... if this offended anyone(except sonix) sorry. thanks for all the replies. i'm gonna go to the insurence company and get a quote when i get the chance. my folks told me if i buy a camaro insurance is gonna be on me, which i figure is the way it outa be.
later-z28roadtrip

That depends on you age and wether or not you own the car outright with mo loan, my insurance agent told me when i bought my 1st 3rd gen that, if i own the car and do not have a loan on it i can get any kind of coverage i wanted, and i told her it was a camaro z28 and that made no difference, she even said if i bougt a brand new lamborghini and owned it outright i could get any insurance for it. When i got my 85 z28 i was 21 and was only driving for 3 years and i still only paid like 100 bucks a month for coverage

Plenty of opinions in here, and some with no frame of reference... Most are based on one persons experience with one particular car. I'll tell you based on my personal experience, having owned more then 10 thirdgens including Camaro, Firebird, V6, V8, carbed, injected, etc etc etc...

If you get anything less then a 350, then you're going to want to swap to a 350. It's cheaper, easier, and faster to just buy a 350 in the first place. They're a better investment from the get go because if any of these cars will ever appreciate, the 350's will be in there. A 305 is just a 305 and nobody that doesn't have all their chips on the 305 in their garage ever says anything good about the 305. V6's are worthless for resale. In mint condition with every option available, they're hard to sell. If they're rough you can't hardly give them away. The other thing to keep in mind is that only the 305 5spd's and 350's ever got all the good equipment. Most of the other V8's and all of the 6 cylinders and 4 cylinders have soft suspensions, restrictive exhausts, slow steering, etc. If you start with a 6cyl vs say an IrocZ you've got to replace the entire drivetrain, and the entire suspension before you're even in the same ballpark performance wise. We won't even go into how many of your friends will pick on you mercilessly cause you've got a sports car with a 'tiny' engine.

Now the pro's of the V6 or low output V8... They can be driven regularly and they aren't as likely to be as abused or worn. The lower power makes them more civilized around town and less likely to put you in jail or the hospital. And they're cheap, but then if you ever need or want to sell it, you'll find out why it was cheaper in the beginning... no one wants them.

Ttops leak. The loss of structural integrity causes serious problems over time. Even sitting without being driven a ttop car will develope noticable sag. They also rattle, clank, squeek, and they're easier to break into.

The carbed cars are all equipped with computer controlled Qjets. They've got all the problems of the classic Quadrajet, with the added complexity and issues that come with that complexity. Not to mention they're over engineered and needlessly complicated. Start there, and you'll have problems. Keep in mind carbs are old enough technology that you can't just go anywhere and expect to find a mechanic that still knows how to work on them.

On to the early Tuned Ports... The design was an early attempt at fuel injection. Until you get to about 1989 they aren't all that great, and even then they still leave a lot to be desired. 90-92 cars have faster processor speeds, simplified design, better flowing parts, etc.

Early vs late... Most people with the early cars will endeavor to update their cars to the later styling. For the cost, you're further ahead to buy a 91-92 to begin with.

Any good thirdgen is going to cost about $3,000. In that price range you can either find a nice 6cyl, or a well used 350. If you shop around you can find a nice 92 Z28 350 for that price. Unless the price is really right, hold out for something exceptional.

Oh, almost forgot... 90-up cars are cheaper to insure due to the drivers side airbag. It's easy enough to remove if you don't like it, you'll still get the discount because the rate is based on the VIN number.

are you out of your mind? i looked 6 months for a 3rd gen and never saw any nice 92 Z28's with a 350 for around $3000. Im sure its possible to find one at that price but not usually. dont mislead him :)

i see them all day long might need new seats or something small like that but a 92 350 car goes for around $3000 here. maybe a little more or a little less. depends on how many are in the area. everywhere around here you can see a thirdgen of some sort but in other places they're rare and bring in more money. but if i was to get one to restore it would be a TTA or a 90 iroc-z convertible

I know you're looking for a camaro. But, if you consider firebirds, the 1992 GTAs and Firehawks are rare. If you restore 'em (especially a Firehawk), I bet they'll be worth some serious bucks in a few years.

-Bill

And how many of the "rare" 92 Firehawks do you think are in need of restoration?:rolleyes: They're already worth plenty.

scottmoyer,

I was just saying that if he happened to come across a beat up firehawk, it would definately be worth restoring. It's definately a very valuable thirdgen.

Thanks,
Bill

I have to agree, but yet , the 3rd Gen i picked up i got for $700. I will most likely have to spring for about $500 in body work for the fenders and little stuff that i want to customize it up, and then $3000 for the paint job. BUt you know if i would have took $4000 and just bought a car it woulnt be exactly what i wanted. This way i have exactly what i want.

I am a firm beliver when it come to restoring a vehicle that get one that is gona take work. If you restore it is definatly gona cost money so get one that you will get your money worth to get what you want ion the end.

These 3rd Gens as of now are not something that you wshould invest with. There are so many out there, so high supply low demand = low value. Maybe in about 20 years when these dumb full of C&*m teens get ahold of more they will deminish the supply and the value will increase as less of these are on the road.

BUt I say go for it., get what you want if you want to have fin with it and have something you can say I DID THIS!!..

Good luck

I bought an 84 Z28 L69 5 speed and a 91 RS V6 for $500 total last December. The 84 needs work and quite a few parts are missing, but the 91 is complete and basically needs nothing except a fuel pump and some TLC. I have started restoring the 84 and plan on financing some of the parts by selling items off the 91, or using them whenever possible. The 84 is a more desirable car and I like a little challenge anyway.

I just now bought an 84 Trans Am for $300 that is complete, but has a cracked nose and mismatched fenders. I can use many of the engine parts, and sell the ones I don't need. When I get through with the 84 Z and no longer need the other two, I'll have the stripped hulks picked up and I'll have a great 84 Z28 left.

I got all three of these cars for $800.00- I know I guy who buys and sells cars all the time, and he watches out for good deals for me(plus the 91 was a repo). Bottom line is, I don't think you have to spend much to get in one of these cars. If you want to buy it and just drive it- you'll obviously pay more. I prefer to get a little dirty and actually work on my car(s) though. You don't have to start out with a $3000 vehicle.

I'm not afraid of doing some work to restore it. my dad is a mechanic, and he'll be able to show me some. i'll be able to borrow some stuff from his shop if i need to. paint, body, and interior could burn me though...
loren.benedict, how do you get 3 grand for a paint job? that seems like a lot more than i'd ever seen for one.

i bought mine for $3800

i bought my 89 iroc for 1600
350 tpi
t-tops
power windows/mirrors/door locks/drivers seat
auto
air conditioning
rear defrost
remote hatch release

it only needs a fender and paint:)

The paint is a Dupont Superior grade stuff a deep cherry red, with and organic inhibitor primer with 7 coats of clear coat. all baked on. They guy doing it is Vallie Collision out of statesborough Ga. He is one of the best in the state and has done vehicle for alot of nascar teams and such. You get what you pay for when you get a paint job. He has done 3 other vehicles of mine and i have never had any complaints with him.

They're out there, you just have to look awhile and find someone who's in a hurry to sell. Someone who will sell something like that for that kind of a price, probably isn't going to advertise it. Start hitting tow yard auctions, making friends with farmers, get the word out that you're looking, and you'll be surprised what just falls in your lap.

I got a phone call one morning and that evening I had a 86 Trans Am WS6 hardtop with a LB9/automatic for $500.

Another day I got a running, driving, 89 RS V8/auto, ttops. $300.

My 84 6cyl 5spd coupe was $200 at a tow yard auction. I drove it home and everyday until I got pissed and blew up the engine.

$3,000 will go a LONG way. Most of these cars are old enough they're paid for. Just wait till something goes wrong, the owners girlfriend gets pregnant, the owner loses their job, etc.

Check out www.kbb.com Punch in a 92 Z28, 350 with 100,000 miles. Private party value... Excellent $3,445 Good $3,055 Fair $2,605

The book value wouldn't be under $3,500 unless people were selling them for that.

by the way, $3800 isnt around $3000....its closer to $4000. but thats still a good deal david068513. yeah u can find any car for a low price if the seller is desperate...

I think what you will soon find is region to region the values change drastically. For most of the country The Camaro is more valued than the Firebird, but up here in Michigan it seems the opposite. you will be hard pressed to find any 350 3rd gen for less than $3000 unless its beat up, the gas tank leaks etc etc. Although I did buy a Formula 350 in 2005 for $800... granted it did not run.
John

IMO you should look for a top-of-the-line car, of whatever brand and year range you prefer. Look at the L69 cars if you like the early cars, a TPI 305/5-speed or a 350 car if you like the later ones. In the later ones, look for a G92 car. T-tops if you want them, or not if you don't; for all practical purposes, you can't change that. Look for one with the most options you can find, or if you particularly want a stripper, find one that starts out that way (don't destroy a well-optioned car, or conversely, try to option up a stripper). Look at Z28 or IROC, in the Camaro, or the top-of-the-line TAs, GTA, Formula, etc. in the Bird line.

Avoid LG4, CFI, TBI, and TPI 305/auto cars. Avoid 6-cylinder ones. It's always easier and cheaper to buy a car that's already got what you want, than to change it out. Start out as close to your ultimate goal, in terms of how the car came originally, as you can.

Try to find one with NO RUST WHATSOEVER (I don't mean "a little rust", "just surface rust", "repaired rust", etc. - NO RUST WHATSOEVER is the standard that you should apply), little or no body work, old paint so you can see what the body REALLY is. A new shiny paint job may dazzle you but can also hide any number of flaws.

Also IMO, the important thing about a 350 car isn't the 350 itself; 350s are cheap and easy to swap into any V8 car. Rather, the 350 cars tend to be top-of-the-line to begin with. Think, "car", not "motor".

IMO it's FAR easier to swap a motor than to convert the trans; so get one that's already an auto or a stick, as you prefer. If you want a stick car, you won't find one with a 350, unless somebody already swapped it in (which I would avoid).

Try to find a reltively un-modded car. It's a whole lot easier to maintain one that isn't already hacked to pieces, and there's no point in paying for somebody else's mods if they're not the same as the ones you want.

The best thirdgen to restore is the one that needs the least amount of work when you buy it. Any restoration can be a money pit. Especially these cars where they do not command a premium for collectability at this point.

The biggest pitfall is getting the car insured for close to what you spent on it. The problem is the market value of these things is still kind low, so if something happens to it and it gets totalled, you may be out a ton of money.