Shake down with the Fox
 

I tend to not post the fox swap on here since it is not a third gen, but i enjoy the sound advice from my fellow third gen racers here.

Car went 7.2 last friday with a 1.7 60 foot. 98 MPH was the best. Hot lapping caused it to drop back a tenth and a MPH eventually. The oil pressure went from 40 at idle to just above 20 before i ended the night after 9 back to back passes. Between breaking down and getting hot, i may do a oil cooler.

Anyway, weight is unknown at this time, the dog chewed the wide band chord so i have no idea where the carb is at. It was 11.5:1 when i pulled it off the camaro. Now it has no spacer, so it is what is causing the car to diesel down after running 3-4 passes.

Has 3.73s, TH400 with a Revmax converter supposed to be 4500. I can footbrake 2300, flashes slightly higher.

I cannot say i am not happy with a 7.2 first time out, but this thing is a tenth slower than the 89 RS that had a manual trans and 1 3/4 headers, dual 3 inch with a couple more than i like bends to clear our cars complex underside. I know the 4.30 gears helped.

But, this coupe should weigh a couple hundred pounds less, the exhaust is 1 7/8 3.5 collector, reduced to 3 inch, decent X pipe.

So, i assumed the X pipe and primaries with the lesser weight would have let out a higher MPH, thats for sure. Once it 60 foots better it can start to MPH sooner, but i figured it would have been around 100.

I have weight i can cut, the car needs a roll bar, it has no swap bars and is touchy as it with the ability to roll when you make steering corrections.

I am going to find or make some kind of scoop so i can fit the 2 inch spacer for sure, get the wide band cable so i can dial in air/fuel, cut as much weight as i can and see if i can find a local shop to restall the tight converter.

Once im somewhere in the 6s, ill put the nitrous on it. Tires are 26x11.5x17 ET streets and they are dead hooking.

I will get the weight ASAP, i know we need that data for better ideas of what to expect. I really want 4.11s in the back but i want to street drive the turd as well. With weight low enough the 43.73s should do great i think.

Anyway, here are a few vids, any upfront ideas are going to be good for me.



Video from the stands was not great, but it sounds fantastic:



I have 6 more videos from the starting line i can upload if it will make any difference.

The one pass i DIDNT hit the rev limiter on the 1-2 was a 7.3. So, the heat is hurting the carb im sure.

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

Truly surprised no one has any input on this. Maybe the pros did not log in yet.

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

wheels probably weigh a ton....

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

what exactly is different from when it was in the camaro? spacer and gear only, or is the trans/converter different?
-i know you tapped on the limiter for a bit in the 1st vid, and that would cause you to slow down a bit.
-if its dieseling when you go to shut it off, i wouldnt say the spacer is causing it... or am i misunderstanding?
-wheels probably are fairly heavy- what kind were on the camaro?
-would be nice to have an actualy weight of each car for comparison.

nothing really stands out at this point as causing lower mph... :huh:

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

What jetting did you change between runs? How did fresh plugs look after a run?

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

Nice runs! Maybe one day i'll Lsx my fox... My bird just has way too much money in it to stop now...

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

mph is down cause camaro was t56 and had fatties/skinnies, and i bet the weight is basically the same right now

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

well there ya go!

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

Camaro was a t56, 4.30s, 2 inch spacer I ported to imitate a HVH. I could. Of see the shift light till I moved it to a better position. And yea, I think missing the spacer is causing dieseling, I am surprised since it is a air gap setup pretty much. The car has 17s, they are not light, but not ultra heavy. Camaro had stock 91/92 16s on the rear, pro star 15x3.5s ok the front.

No tuning was done, just wanted to see how it did back to back on a first time out. Was trying to see if it was consistent.


Seems you guys are thinking what I am. I assumed the wheels may be holding a tenth back, the converter is surely holding 2-3 tenths, I can surely cut weight, but need to know where I am at now, the gearing is a duh. I am not happy to lose the stock flat hood appearance, but oh well.

But, I ASSUMED the car would have a decent weight advantage, I'm not so sure now. The automatic I assumed would shine over a human shifter manual, the larger headers and superior X pipe I also thought would make for a increase in power that would translate to a tenth.

I am thinking the weight cut, converter, tuning, spacer and if I am lucky, some big and little 15s, she should be in the 6.7 range or better. Then I'll throw the gas at it.

Thank you for your replys guys, again, sorry I have invested into a rustang. Wish I had a 89 formula or bird in general as a weight advantage. But these cars have too much going for the drags and available parts. Just started as a better platform, and if I wreck it I don't care. Lol

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

What is the powerplant in it?
Unless youre well over 650hp 1-3/4 will bring some torque back shouldnt hurt any mph
Spacer should not cause any dieseling

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

It is a LQ4 6.0 with a Trex, heads milled .030-.040.(cam is 242/248@.050, .610.615 lift on a 110 LSA). No one makes a smaller LS swap header for these as far as i know, but these will work for a future higher HP build anyway.

The lack of a spacer is what is causing the dieseling. It is allowing heat to get into the carb and making it diesel. Same engine in my 89 camaro with the 2 inch spacer did not do it.


Update after a test drive. Ran it through 1st and 2nd 5 times and checked plugs, it is lean. So there is MPH to be had there for sure. It has maybe 4 PSI of fuel pressure. I am surprised it didnt bang out but then again it was not dead lean. Makes allot of sense. I didnt care to look at the regulator pressure. It had a 5/16 return and now has a 3/8. Between the regulator sitting and the difference in return, adjustment was needed.

Too bad i will not be taking it back with just the fuel pressure change, but i am thinking 6.9x might happen next outing between the tune and weight removal. Or i could be wrong.

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

Have you checked valve spring pressure? How long have you been using those springs.

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

They are conicals that have been in these heads for 4 years. It is not floating valves. I'll see what happens Sunday with the extra fuel and tuning. Probably cut 100 more pounds out as well.

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

how hot is it getting? just still cant see that spacer causing it to diesel.... i daily drove a holley double pumper for several years with no problems like that.

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

I didnt realize it was LSx (re header size)

The spacer will not cause run on or no spacer
Check your transfer slot on your primary and secondary
Whats the idle at
What kind of timing do you have in it

(assuming this is carbd)

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

Same timing I had when it was in the 89 RS. Pretty sure the dieseling was from the 4 psi of fuel pressure. Caused the cylinders to get hot. Still want to install the spacer to regain the low speed cruise ability. The spacer has always helped in the low end street driving.

Wonder how much it was holding back with 4 psi...

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

11.5:1 afr was already a full point rich while pulling a 4.30 gear & 4 gears, then you went to a steeper rear gear & 3-speed. - It's probably pig rich.


What gear(s) are you doing the burn-out in?

Not sure on that converter. From the sound alone I would think it's riding the flash point, possibly due to being down on power, thus it wouldn't stall up where it should & it wouldn't lock-up well.

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

Doing the burn out in 1st. These ET streets don't take much to get sticky for me. My track is superb for prep.

The converter is just way too tight though I'm sure.

The 11.5:1 was after swapping back from a super Vic to the Vic jr. Never went back to the track with the AFR there. The 7.1 passes in the 89 were dialed on at 12.7-13.0:1.

Ordered a new wide band cable yesterday, so it will be dialed in soon.

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

do burnout in second gear. you'll roll the sprag in the trans doing them in first.

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

K, will do. I did it once or twice for the heck of it. Ill make it a habit. Low RPM shift from 1-2 then roll into the throttle i believe i read somewhere? I am too used to the manual trans.

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

Wheel speed heats the tires not engine RPM. - Is it a manual valvebody? If so, initiate the burn-out in 2nd, quickly shift to high & roll out. If auto, then you have no option but to start in 1st, but allow it to upshift all the way to high before letting out.

You DO NOT want the the tires spinning & then allowing them to hook while in 1st or 2nd. Low roller sprag & intermediate sprag take a direct hit every time that happens & you will kill them. - If you take out the low roller sprag there's a good likely hood of the direct drum exiting in a spectactular fashion, possibly taking dashboard/windshield/your legs/etc with it if you don't have a shield and/or blanket.

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

The difference in gears will account for most of it. Not to mention the rest of the setup (suspension, converter, etc.). Larger headers also might have hurt it. Those are some drastic differences so comparing the two is pretty senseless.

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

I need to weight the car, if it is a few hundred pounds lighter, then I think it should have still had more MPH at least, but 4 psi of fuel pressure has go to hurt a bit. The converter is the number one problem. I could launch the t56 at 5-6k, this thing let's me launch at 2500. So the combination of such a shallow gear and tight converter are my primary assumption.

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

Looks to be 400 pounds less than the RS was and i still have yet to pull out the rear and door impact bars as well as cut any other random AC stuff out of the dash.

RS was 3450 with me in the driver seat. Pretty crazy. If i can just lose 61 pounds to get under 3000 with me in the car. LOL.

Attachment 348005

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

maybe the other bottom end was "looser" allowing more hp?

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

Honestly, i really had to stop myself from making a trip to the track tonight just to see how the change in fuel does. But, today i will cut weight, add carb spacer, cut hood, rear swap bar, put a football in the rear right spring to stiffen it up(ford guys told me that trick).

Im sure if there is a huge MPH gain, it is because of the fuel. I will be throwing the wide band on as well. Felt nice to drive it with a temporary tag today. A set of skinnies and some lighter wheels on the rear will also be in the future.

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

One of the videos my wife made. The other has not uploaded for some reason...

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

Here is the other:

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

Dont LOL too hard, but here is what i made out of a spare mustang hood after i installed the 2 inch carb spacer:

Attachment 347975

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t...ps93a75b97.jpg

Attachment 347976

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t...ps15ce77c4.jpg

Attachment 347977

Should work pretty well. It was the best i could come up with in a hurry at the price of free99.

Will be funny if i get a cowl hood later to save weight and look better and it goes slower from not getting fresh air. LOL.

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

Till next week, track is freakin closed...

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

whew, that's worse than the one i did

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

Yea, I'm not a fan of it, but didn't want a air cleaner hanging out. If I made the back slope maybe it would look a little better. It is funny to say the least. Thought about painting it to look like a dominoes pizza box.

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

the dominoes pizza box would at least give the "i-don't-give-a-fugg-about-what-this-car-looks-like" look

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

Then you need one of those signs that sit on the roof. Pizza delivery guy sleeper lol!

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

It needs more chevy emblems.

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

Has one under the hood, well on the underside of the hood. I'll snap a pic.

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

Don't feel bad :)

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-X...0/scan0036.jpg

On my old car I cut this out with a jig saw lol, mine was a circle though. I was taking my air cleaner on and off, on and off, and my hood on and off, on and off, until one day I decided to mod the hood until I could afford a cowl lol. I did get made fun of but oh well.

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

I just couldn't settle for a hole. Lol. Was keeping a eye out for a 4 inch cowl, but the 83-86 hoods are kind of rare.

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

Word, for the record I did eventually move to this:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-x...0/scan0021.jpg

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

That is the plan. Just broke at the moment. a 4 inch cowl is in the future. I really would have loved to keep the stock hood though.

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

Yeah I am liking stock hoods more and more, lately. I have bad luck with 3rd gens and hood clearance though.

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

Earlier year hoods have less clearance than the later year hoods. I traded my 91 hood for an 85 and had to hit it with a hammer in a few spots.

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

i'd love to have been able to keep my 82-83 z hood on my car...was my favorite look for my sportcoupe

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

That the one with the two dips in it? Fuzzy memory cannot remember which one. I always liked the 91/92 with the blisters.

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

yup, and it was composite
Attachment 347822

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

Yep, always liked that hood.

I think I can get ahold of my buddies old aero scoop hood for cheap. Would work fine and look better than what I have.

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

You need one of my front stickers.....

Attachment 347766

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

I may put the Bo tie off my trailblazer the wife wrecked on it.

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

Nothing really changed tonight except i am trapping 98 on the 7.3 passes. The track prep took a dump quick tonight as the street cars and their radials just made the worst of things.


On a side note, i did manage a 1.6x high 60 foot, of course i was all over the rev limiter on the 1-2 and the 2-3 shifts. Got the fuel from 11.4:1 to 12.7:1-12.9:1. Upped the rev limiter to 7200. Brought the timing in and a little higher early on.

Best passes were the same. 7.2 at 98. But several 7.3s after the 60 foot fell off a touch were at 98. I was spinning in the 60 and nothing i could do about it.

First pass was a new chevy truck that Callaway just finished up with a blower. Was a nice truck none the less!



A new 2014 GT mustang. Some European gentlemen, was a good bit of fun chatting with him before the lanes opened. Gave him as much advise as i could for making radials do much for him. Nice car, but i forgot to joke that "Had to come to America and drive a real car eh?" LOL


This was another guy i was shooting the bull with. Didnt realize till after i loaded the car up that it was turbocharged. We ran several times and the guy had heart. He didnt care if we ran and he got bested. Others got to where they dont even want to get beside me. I always give others the move and try to give them a sporting chance when they are a radial stock or mild ride. Not like there is money on the race. Not too many LOLs at the hood scoop, was disappointing.

Re: Shake down with the Fox
 

Here is the underside of the crap hood.

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t...pse0dfd258.jpg