List your suspension setup!
 

Hey all,

Long time lurker/researcher. I finally got myself an f-body!

1992 Camaro Z-28 BLACK

First thing I'm going to do is replace all the weatherstripping and seals.

The second thing I want to do is suspension. I've read the stickies up top but just wanted to get a feel from members.

Right now, I'm definitely getting some parts from Founders. Panhard and LCA combo, camber casters. Looking at the Jegs SFC's.

Please list your full setup here. It would be helpful if you could list where you go the best deals in terms of price.

Thanks!

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

You will definitely want people to include what they do with the car. Drag, street, and autoX/road race set ups can be VERY different. Drag, and autoX/road race set ups can be very unfriendly on the street.

My suspension set up is in my vB garage. I'm designing my suspension to be track ready for autoX and road racing but mild enough I can still tolerate it on the street. I've only got the front done so far but it has made a big difference that I'm very happy with. I wouldn't recommend my set up to a dedicated street car or somebody who drag races.

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

Rock auto was my friend for steering replacement parts. They had the best prices. Front A-arm bushings are commonly over looked... Prices vary from whether you want rubber, poly or Delrin.

Good S&S should be high on your list.

Obviously tires shouldn't be skimped on either.

Don't forget to get a nice alignment too.

You already have a decent start with the founders parts that you've ordered.

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

Forgot to mention that I'm going for a street car but the main reason I made this post was because I was looking at the "suspension in a box" offerings from Spohn or Hotchkis. I read on here that it may not be the best way to go or even cost effective for what you get.

I also read that certain parts don't work with others so I wanted to get that all cleared up before I run into an issue with fitment etc.

For bushings I was going to go with the Energy kit?

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

Hotchkis is overpriced NON performance stuff. do a little comparative research and you'll see. They do make some good braces but thats about it.

Also why poly bushings? Yes the stiffer poly decreases deflection but is also known for squeaking. Poly can also cause binding in the rear LCA's. I would stick with rubber for a street car or use del a lums up front and something like UMI roto joints in the rear. I wouldn't use poly. i bought a complete energy suspension kit for my 69 before i knew better. Had some issues with the rear suspension that went away when i installed factory rubber. Now i'm just waiting for the front to start squeaking.

Moog won't let you down.

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

Totally agree with you on the lower control arms; but I have had good luck with them on my sway bars. They have not made noise on mine at all. My lower control arms were absolutely hilarious though. They popped and squeaked over every road imperfection.

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

Also, some magazine did an article on that hotchkis all in one box kit. They liked it; but I was not impressed with the lateral G's they pulled. It pulled just barley over stock Iroc-z numbers.

Just doing a search on there spring rates & sfc's will tell you to steer clear. Also last time I checked there front steering rebuild kit was over $400! :eek:

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

i agree, and i should have mentioned i did use energy suspension bushings and end links on my sway bars. They will work well there and be easy to keep greased, but i wouldn't use them anywhere else.

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

Thanks for confirming that. I'll build my suspension components individually then.

My list so far:

Jegs SFC's
Founders Pan Hard and LCA
Founders Caster Camber plates
Moog Rubber bushings all round

Looking at the wheeljacks but someone mentioned on here that lowering and raising means you have to do alignment each time?? With lowering, I should be getting the LCA relocation brackets as well right?

Recommendations on Wonderbar? Recommendations on sway bars? Is a torque arm a good idea with stock 5.7 motor? Plan to go to a 383 next winter.

Thanks guys.

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

For a street car avoid the poly like mentioned above, especially if you plan to drive with your windows down. A good budget setup that will make the car fun to drive is kyb front struts with rear bilstein shocks, Raybestos front end components, poly sway bar end links, rubber front control arm bushings, and the founders rear control arms with a 3 piece bushing. I have this setup in my dd firebird and the car handles great with no negative side effects.

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

Looks like a solid setup for a street car. For a wonder buy the TDS unit. Installation is a breeze compared to other brands.

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

Do not get poly lower control arm bushings. I noticed a huge difference going from poly LCA's to rod end LCA's. Rod ends are not the best for street cars but there are other options to get a bushing/joint that can articulate. Panhard bars and LCA's are pretty standard fare. You're going to see a much bigger difference in different types of joints than different brands. Caster/Camber plates and torque arms are where there's a LOT of variation between brands.

Normally I would say rabestos is fine, but the prices at rockauto for Moog steering parts are SOOOOOO CHEEEEP compared to brick and mortar (Im talking HALF price with shipping!) that I have a hard time advocating anything BUT that.

Also, I have 5% off code from rock auto, I buy a LOT of stuff there ;)


Also, you've got a 92 Z28. I'd leave your sway bars alone and you already have a wonderbar.

Can you elaborate on this a little? I have NEVER heard this in any kind of official capacity which makes me think it's just opinion. I also agree their stuff is crazy overpriced (goes with catering to the pro-touring crowd I guess) but as far as quality I dont see a major difference between them and anyone else...?

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

Do you have part numbers for the Moog front end stuff? My first time using rock auto and it's confusing me...haha

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

when I was researching to build my suspension, NOTHING Hotchkis has justified buying their brand over another especially when considering price. The quality is not an issue, it's the performance per $ that just isn't there. Their springs are no better than stock, their steering linkage is stupid expensive ($500) and made by somebody else, they just put their name on it. I called hotchkis and asked a dozen questions about what advantages there are if any to their steering and he told me "we don't make it so i don't know". I asked who makes it and he wouldn't tell me.

For the money there are MANY other quality products out there for less money that will work the same or better than hotchkis. Between my weight jacks, konis, and GW delalums, you can't say my opinion is cause I'm cheap.

They do have some braces for my 69 I would like but I could fabricate them for a fraction of their cost.

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

Correct me if I'm wrong; but part #'s should be as follows:

Center Link: DS1049
Idler Arm: K6249
Front Outer Tie Rod: ES2226RL
Front Inner Tie Rod: ES2227RL
Ball Joints: K6145T

If you want to rebuild the steering box yourself: Steering Gear Rebuild Kit: 8522

Buy aftermarket tie rod adjusters. I use spohn's and they work very well.

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

That's the same impression I had too when I was researching. It's not that they make crap or anything; you can just get a way better set up for a sizable amount of cash... Others may feel different.

Here is that magazine article I was talking about:

http://www.superchevy.com/technical/...n/viewall.html

There results were "an average of .88g on the skidpad." (200-foot skidpad) with Nitto 555 tires.

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

IIRC the IROC did .92 stock and that was probably on gator backs.

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

Drag Only Car:

Racecraft laser cut brackets on a 9"

Steinjager Double Adjustable LCA's
Steinjager PHB
Steinjager Tunnel Mount Torque Arm
Steinjager Anti-Roll Bar
Old school Summit 3 ways
Stock Springs

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

Maybe Im crazy, but I dont really expect tubular panhard bars and control arms and polyurethane bushing to increase skidpad numbers. These sorts of things improve balance and responsiveness (poly bushings in the rear LCA's hinder that...b ut I digress...). Skidpad numbers I think have more to do with alignment and tires than how stiff the suspension members are.

Again, Im no fan of Hotchkiss. We are not their target market and they make no effort to cater to us and charge out the wazoo. Founders, Spohn, BMR, and UMI are a lot better options. PA Racing if you're building a drag car...

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

I can't make a legitimate argument against this, as I have no back to back test results. Someone else will have to chime in.
I see where you are coming from though.
My main complaint with hotchkis is the Lowering Springs spring rates and there sfc.

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

It's a simple arguement :)



Those componants flex under load. When componants twist and bushing distort, the footprint of the tires contact patch changes. That change in footprint causes unpredictable loss of grip. Unpredictable loss of grip will lower ultimate cornering figures due to instability.

Quite simple.

Now to go the other way with it, locking up a suspension with stiff bushings that limit movement in the wanted articulation range will also cause loss of traction over road imperfections. This is what you are refering to when stating that a skid pad (which is smooth) does not translate into a real world enviroment where a car impacts little bumps and dips in road imperfections as it corners. So yes the numbers can skew a little, but Ill take a stable contact patch with limited articulation over a car with unstable flexing and distroting componants any day of the week.

Perfeably Ill take a car with soild bushings that articulate freely attached to lightweight strong link arms.

Edit to add: from what I have seen and correct me if I am wrong but PA racing and racecraft are some of the same people and I have seen notorious things from that company with very poor fabricating skills. Broken A-arms like on REDRAIF's car, cracked spindles, I could search and I am sure add to that list plenty. I would stand clear of PA racing. Spohn makes alot of nice heavy duty parts like his SFC's and Strut mounts. As for anything else I would simply make my own componants out of QA1 rodends (PRN series- the expensive stuff) and the new "finally anodized" aluminum hex arms from Coleman. I say that because I never completely trusted the exposed raw aluminum threads on the uncoated arms- I had several of them start to gull on me over the years of adjustment and would replace them as I would wheelstuds etc when they see alot of use. The new anodized stuff is very nice- Heres ssome recent stuff I've ut together but it is quite pricey...but bulletproof and pretty much the best stuff money can buy.

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

So then you are in agreement with me that using stiffer suspension members will improve handling even though the skidpad doesn't show it? Or you disagree?

Everything flexes, stock stuff just flexes more, but I feel like the real advantage of stuff like that is going to be more rapid high load, dynamic situations. Not a constant radius turn.

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

The skid pad will show it.

Where the skid pad can "inflate numbers" is when you put those stiffer bushings that do not articulate and put the to test on a bumpy road, not a smooth skid pad. This is when comparing aftermarket poly to aftermarket rodend tubular compoonants. Both are better then stock stuff though even on a skid pad


So-stock compared to tubular parts with poly bushings? the skid pad WILL show improvement numbers definately IF the car is setup properly on both senerio's to their best going both left and then right turn tests without changes being made.

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

A second note- Poly is actually optimum for street use in a few places like the chassis mount sid eof the LCA's and Panhard rod. I would not use the poly on the axle side becasue the axle sides see greater articulation changes including (and most importantly) lateral changes.

If you do a test and torque the poly tight on the chassis with the panhard rod and leave the other side hanging (I mean tight)- you can still grab the axle end of the panhard and it will move up and down freely about 2". My car did not travel more than 2".... so there you go.

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

OP; I totally forgot to mention my setup!

Shocks & struts: Koni yellow sports
Strut Mounts: Founders
Complete MOOG front rebuild from Rock Auto w/ no steering wheel "dead spot". Also I have rebuilt the factory quick ratio box.
Spohn adjustable Rear LCA's & Panhard Bar w/ Delrin Delsphere. (Delspheres are a street friendly rod-end's with delrin bushing cups; I've found they work excellent) If it matters I opted for the 4130N TIG welded Chromemoly.
Factory 36/24 mm swaybars with poly end links/bushings.
Factory Front steering box brace (wonder bar).
Factory springs.
Factory limited slip differential.
All set to handle.

^This is the current set up^ It handles very good.

Near future Mods:
Spohn SFC
Global West Delrin A-arm bushings for factory A-arms,
Howe .75" extended Ball Joints
Jegs Pan hard bar relocator
Rear LCA relocation brackets (Haven't decided on a brand yet):confused:
Springs: I'm going to try out the Vogtlands from Founders; as they seem to have good spring rates for a 1" lowering job. If they don't work out then I'm going weight jacks with #850 front & #175 rear.
Edlebrock Strut Tower Brace. (slightly modified)

I also plan to fabricate a few braces.
Another thing I want to do is create a better weight balance; I already went aluminum radiator among a few other things.

If I can find any of the old forged Belltech Drop spindles, I would drop several hundred $ to get them. They are unfortunately hard to find and there are no substitutes for them. All the others have had failures of one type or another. This is why I plan to run extended ball joints.

Other than this you can tune your sway bars to your liking. I'm probably going to run 36/21 on the street with SFC. But I do plan to buy a few different sizes to test with. Keep in mind I'm not talking aftermarket, I'm talking used GM sway bars. Unless they are majorly rusted you can re-use them.

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

Wow....lots of very very useful information here.

NOSHOWALLGO - thanks for all the rockauto part numbers. Certainly makes things easier.

To be honest, I saw a video on Youtube and the guy listed all his suspension mods. That's when I made the decision to do suspension first. He had Hotchkis stuff but right out the gate , I felt an all in one box setup wouldn't be the right way to go.

I've had a few PM's so to clarify. The car is originally from Florida, currently being stored for me by a friend in Michigan. No rust anywhere but the clearcoat and paint have faded a bit in areas. The car's final destination is Canada :D As soon as it warms up a bit I'll drive it back up and the modding begins! Hoping to stockpile some parts for it's arrival.

Thanks for all that responded and let's hear from some more!

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

That is basically what I started with. An over all good 3rd gen F-body with no rust, you have a good start for sure. Having to deal with rust & major metal fatige will really ruin your build as far as time & money are concerned. Good luck with your build!

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

I'll give a slightly different answer from the rest of the crowd.

Don't buy any of the stuff above until you have bought some Koni yellow struts and shocks. They are the foundation that all the other suspension parts layer on top of. For sheer dollar to performance value, you CAN NOT go wrong with them. They're streetable. They take the bumps well. They don't squeak or bind. There is no downside to them (aside from the cost upfront. But they do have a lifetime warranty). Koni struts and shocks will make a huge different in enjoyment in the car even if you do absolutely nothing else.

If you plan on doing aftermarket upper strut mounts, leave the stock strut boots off when you install them. If you're planning on keeping the stock upper strut mounts, then put the strut boot covers back on.

I'd normally recommend a TDS Wonderbar for ease of instalation. But your car already came with a wonderbar from the factory. No need to change this.

Many will spend 1/2 their money on struts/shocks and 1/2 their money on expensive lowering springs. I disagree with this and recommend spending all the money on the expensive Konis and very little money on springs. I went with stock height Moog springs (5662 front and 5665 rear). Personally I see this as the best setup because I get the performance of the Konis while retaining the better ride of stock height springs and less scraping of the air dam. Less worry of running over something on the road too.

Global West Del-A-Lum A-arm bushings up front work well. They don't require greasing. They don't squeak. They're responsive. They're also a pain in the butt to install. I had a shop put these in with the 5662 front springs at the same time. Car felt better, more rigid, but not any harder over bumps. No downside here.

I'm not familiar with Jegs SFC. I went with Spohn. I don't think there are any bad SFC. Just varying ways of designing them. The Spohn are nice because they're round. So you can jack the car up with them without worrying about the jackstand/SFC getting lopsided. They're invisible on my car (I went black SFC and still have the black weatherstrip that runs below the doors. But even on cars without the weatherstrip, you can't see them.

Other have mentioned not going poly on the LCA and PHB. My recommendation is just spend the extra money and get the Spohn Delsphere (on both sides) or the UMI Rotojoint (on both sides). No greasing. No bind. A bit more street friendly than Rod ends. Lots of people go with poly on here for the "softer ride compared to rod ends or Delsphere/Rotojoints" But poly really isn't that much softer than the solid setups that Delsphere or Rotojoints have.

A good alignment is always a good idea.

You probably already have good sway bars already. If you do plan on going with poly sway bar bushings, I'd recommend getting the setup that TDS offers. They have greasable poly mounting points that don't require taking anything apart. And I'll always send customers to TDS because Lon is a grade A top notch guy.

But really, do the Konis first. Because all the rest of the suspension stuff is icing. The Konis are the cake.

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

:yup:

+1 I got mine with some clear coat/paint issues but no rust. Hard to believe it was driven year round, never garaged car from Kansas City! Bought it from my cousin.

:totopic: I'm all for piecing the suspension together. I was going to use Eibach fronts springs and Global west rear springs so I would have a lower car with good linear/constant spring rates. Since your building a street car there are many good spring options that will increase your performance while maintaining an enjoyable ride. Do your research on spring rates including stock so you can compare. BUY GOOD STRUTS AND SHOCKS!! I agree with Reid Flemming on the Koni yellows, especially if you think you might ever try autoX or a HPDE. On the other hand if you plan to drag race I'm not so sure they are your #1 choice. A lot of people save and use stock sway bars. Most say the ones to find are 36mm/24mm. Check yours with a digital caliper. You may have them already. If you lower your car you may need to get shorter swaybar end links.

Like any other part of the car there are things you can save on and other things you should just throw your money at.

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

Well you guys sold me on the Koni Yellows. What's the best place to get an entire set? fronts and backs.

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

They might be cheaper else where, but here you go:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ko...5spt/overview/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ko...0spt/overview/

Just make sure you adjust them properly. You will feel a difference every time you adjust them.

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

My setup is as follows

Koni shocks/struts (as stated, best by far) if you are willing to wait they usually go on sale right around May and you can get front and rears for right around $650. Tirerack.com has good pricing on them.

Hot parts caster/camber plates
Rebuilt steering with aftermarket tie rod adjuster sleeve (idler, tie rods, center link, ball joints)
BMR strut tower brace
Adj. Torque arm (Global west)
Energy Suspension a-arm bushings
No-Name Adj lower control arms (rod ends)
No-Name Adj panhard bar (rod ends)
Panhad bar relocation bracket (Unbalanced Engineering)
UMI LCARB
MAC subframe connectors
Cut factory IROC springs

That is all for now. My car is eventually going to be relegated to track use only so I have gone towards as many adjustable parts as possible. I have been doing this on a budget and most of my parts were picked up used. No reason to buy a box kit unless you want everything to match, I am very much function over form.

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

When I bought mine, TireRack had the best price. Google and shop around for the best price before you buy.

Do a search, some people use 4th gen rear shocks because they are externally/on-car adjustable. 3rd gen design has to be removed from the car to be adjusted if i remember correctly.

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

Thirdgen design is also a monotube which is generally considered a superior design from a functional standpoint. The 4th gen rear shocks are twintube. Im not suggesting NOT to get the 4th gen rear shocks... Im just saying there's perks to both even if they're not immediately obvious.

From frrax:

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

Go ask the brain surgeons on Frrax what the difference is between a Koni twintube and a conventional hydrualic twintube. I'd love to see how long it takes them to answer that... if they even get the answer.

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

If there's a difference, why dont you enlighten everyone? Insulting people doesn't help anyone, and I'm sure if they didn't know they would certainly like to.

And even if Koni uses a special type of twin tube shock on the rear, is it superior to their own monotube rear shocks for 3rd gens?

And for the rest of you guys, apparently Koni is exempted from this, but this is the general school of thought on monotube vs twin tube shocks from the guys at KYB:

http://www.kyb.com/service/monotube.php

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

Ask frrax, bye


Go ahead and link this and tell them I sent you...lol

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

Uh... no?

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

Havnt driven it yet, but this winter I did the following.....

Jegs Subframes (I have a write up in the reviews section)
UMI Rear LCA's
UMI Adjustable Panhard
Custom Panhard relocation
Custom TQ Arm based off BRM Track Pack
Poly Front Bushings
Poly Sway bar bushings/links 34mm/24mm bars
Ground Control Weight Jacks 800lbs/175lbs F/R
Koni Yellows all four corners.
Rubber is 275/40-17's on ZR1's all around.
Going to make a Wonderbar when I get some more free time.

Should be a good handling street car.

Jay

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

well im not going to make a list. But everything black or red is new.....

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

It's not if; they do use a different type of twin tube shock as compared to other twin tubes...

When we are talking cheap S&S; generally monotube is superior to the twin-tube design due to low quality faulty twin tube designs causing foaming among other things like heat build up.

BUT to answer the question, Koni is one of the few exceptions. Koni uses a superior gas charged twin tube shock that utilizes a specially designed dual valve set up. (You can look up more info on Koni's site to see how it's designed.) Koni uses a more functional separate valve set up for both compression & rebound which differs from your average cheap twin tube shock. A big improvement of Koni's design is it allows for twice the valving space in a twin tube design than normal (as much as a monotube). Another plus of having their particular separate valve design is to help dissipate heat and reduce foaming of the oil.

STG correct me if I'm wrong, but these improvements are noticed more in the struts than in the rear shocks, as shocks do not see the lateral forces that struts do.

A big plus for monotube shocks is they are generally lighter than twin tubes.

But Koni's twin tube could last longer and not fade as quickly as a regular twin tube design under street conditions...

To get a better picture of the mechanical workings of these I highly suggest doing some Google searches so you can visually understand what's different from a regular twin tube and Koni's twin tube.

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

I asked Koni about whether there was an advantage to switching from my 3rd gen koni shocks to the 4th gen rear shocks and this was their response:

Which is basically what we all thought to begin with so I guess it doesn't amount to much since they really do make top notch parts regardless of the construction method.

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

Straight from the horses mouth. Interesting, either way they are both good shock absorber designs. I used Koni's twin tube on my 4th gen Formula and had no issues. I'm using Koni's montube's on my 3rd gen Iroc-z with great success.

Koni's line up really are good quality. I've used them on all my builds and have never had an issue. Other brands... haven't lasted as well.

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

Something I would like to toy with would be these: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ko...6sp1/overview/

They are double adjustable Koni's that will bolt right into the rear of our cars.

I honestly want to get a set of R compounds first before I go messing with these. But they are definitley a good option.

Any one try out these NT01's?
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/nit-371070/overview/

They would go right on to my Iroc wheels. They seem to be a good grip tire for the track.

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

I never considered it that way... It's a good argument. So when the stock components flex the alignment goes out effecting your tire contact patch; in turn changing your lateral grip correct?

I considered going with aluminum LCA's & panhard bar with rod ends; but my vehicle is also a street vehicle. How do you feel about Spohn's Del-sphere set up as a street/track set up? I'm using his chromoly Del-sphere set up for both my LCA's & panhard rod. It's working well on the street but I have not auto-x'd at all on them yet. It's too damn cold out here right now and the roads are iced!:gocrazy:

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

hey all just a heads up, but Rockauto is closing out inner and outer moog tie rod ends and idler arm. Mine showed up last week along with some other moog parts from Rock. The close outs are from carquest if anyone remembers them. But ya cant really beat the price if you are remotely in the market.

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

In the siggy. Autox and nice weather DD.
Order in which I'd suggest:
Front end rebuild and steering box rebuild or replacement
Free weight reduction
Tires
Koni shocks/struts
Spherical strut mounts
SFC's
Springs
PHB
LCAs/A-arms or del-alums/LCARBS
Extended ball joints/ geometry improvements
Replace heavy parts with lighter and stronger ones/ additional bracing
At that point, you're pretty well tapped out for easy bolt ons and you'll be re-engineering parts of the car if you want further improvements.

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

I only have a few items so far.

UMI rear lower control arms
UMI torque arm
UMI panhard bar
Global West wonderbar
replaced front end steering parts.

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

Pro Street car, quite a long list

Front End
Unisteer Rack and pinion
Umi Tubular A-Arms
Spohn Sway Bar
Moog front springs
Racecraft Road Race K-member
Racecraft 2" dropped spindles
Koni Yellow Struts
J&M Strut mounts
Spohn Wonder bar
Edelbrock Strut brace

Rear
narrowed 9" moser Ford rearend
Strange double adjustable coil overs
Art Morrison Anti Roll
Art Morrison 4 link

Re: List your suspension setup!
 

Well tomorrow is the day. I'm on my way down to pick up the car. Wish me luck with the importation and all the red tape at the border.

I owe you all pictures of the new ride. I'll make sure to take some and post them up here!

Thanks for all the listings here. Some great setups and definitely made it easier to decide on what to get for the car.