thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

Ok I think this belongs in this thread, but here we go.
I am in the market to buy a 3rd gen and my buddy just bought a 05 mustang with the 4.6L SOHC 3v V8, puts out 300 hp (224 kW) and 320 lb·ft (433 N·m) according to stock specs, hes got a manual trans. now obv I wanna get a car thatll beat his. Should I be looking for a car with a 305 or 350, i know a 350 gets more power but how hard would it be to pump a 305 up enough to beat his stang?
thanks in advance

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

Niether the 350 or 305 are going to beat his. I owned a 5 speed 08 GT....same thing as the 05 though. They run 13's stock. I did 13.5 @ 103 mph with mine with an intake only. That 4.6 3 valve engine is a great engine and they respond excellent to bolt on's. In a third gen you would HAVE to get a 350 car and do a bit of modifying to beat your buddy.

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

By bit of modifying do you mean like, true duals, headers, upgrade the distrib and that kinda stuff, or like completely rebuilding bored .30 over and what not

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

Depending on how your freind can drive, you may be able to beat him in a 350 TPI car with intake, headers, and exhaust. May need some better rear axle gearing as well depending on what is in whatever car you decide to buy. Granted all that stuff will only get you around a high 13 so if your buddy is a good driver, it'll be a close race.

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

Hmm. Thanks. He's not a bad driver, I'd say I have more experience with rear wheel drive though. But thanks again. Probably just going to look for a 5.7 car, if not I'll take a loan and get a v6 car rip that out and build a 5.7 or take a 5.7 block and make it a 383 stroker...

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

Good luck man! :cool:

305's CAN be quick too but my old one had a cam, headers, exhaust, intake, and a 5 speed manual and made 225 RWHP (about 265 at the flywheel) and that setup I don't think would have even been able to take an 05+ GT.

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

For the quick and simple honest answer, a healthy 350 TPI with a mild cam, exhaust, stall converter, air induction & intake work and a good rear end can take this Mustang. That 300hp that Mustang has is at the crank, so he's probably making around 250rwhp to be honest. Plus the 350 IROC has abit more torque which would help and any mods you do will add up the horsepower/torque list anyway. Every little bit helps, believe me.

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

Yeah who knows what I'll do lol. Hard to find a car with what I got right now. Seems every spring I get obsessed with thirdgens but this year I finally have the means to get one. Would love to get a 5.7 car, do the usual tune up (distrib ignition coil, wires,plugs, coolant flush, tranny flush and filter. And put pipes on it.)

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

Well, whatever you do good luck on it. I'd like to hear what happens with it personally.

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

haha I'll try to remember to post it or pm you when it eventually happens this summer

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

I sent you a message email on here too. Let me know if you get it.

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

That stang will get ya, especially if he has intake/tune and/or gears...

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

If your main goal is to beat him then I would look into buying an LS1 4th gen. If you must have a 3rd gen, which is fine, don't plan on making 300+ hp without a fat wallet.

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

i have a full bolt on 350 ( roller rockers, cai, full exhaust, 24lbs injectors etc) still stock tpi though and i raced an 06 Gt from a 30 roll to about 75 80 ish and he beat me by about a car and a half.

i dont know what his mods were but it was loud so i know it atleast had exhaust.

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

You for sure want the 350. First mod would be full exhaust. Then look into free mods, after that the TPI intake is where you will want to look next. If you have the means a good dyno tune after a round of mods is something to think about. But don't forget about the suspension too. All that extra power is nothing if you can't hook it up. Good luck with your goals.

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

305 It only takes a good tune, good cat back, 3:73
150K bone stock engine.... I had my 58mm TB and 30# inj
for fun from my previous 350 Build
ran 14.3 @ 95
PS I had 11 adj in the rear
opps T5 trans

sorry was leaving work

stock to stock 14.7 - 9 Stang will rock 3rd's
And no the stock GT does not run 13.0
as above get the 350<<<<

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

might as well put this here. so whats the word on stealth ram? does it add alot or what?

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

that is a huge understatement!!!! as we know the L98 heads are restrictive as well
weak cam... if you match tune and cam, heads HSR conversion it's BYE BYE LS1
all day long!!!!!

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

Don't even bother dude. I raced an 04 tonight, but it had 373's, and some other minor stuff. He kept a good 2 car lengths on my bolt on L98 car from a 40 or so roll. A 350 tpi car has a better chance from a dig and would definately need at least a 342 gear and bolt ons to beat it. So, an 05 and up? I think they are even more badass than the 04 and down. I did manage to leave a grand prix supercharged behind though.LOL I think he wanted in

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

05 and up Mustang gt is in Ls1 territory.

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

Not quite, but close. Mustang is 300 HP as opposed to the LS1's 345 and 4th gen F-bodies are lighter than 05+ stangs too. LS1's are quite a bit faster. I've owned both and my 08 GT was quick but the 2000 TA I had would have beaten it. I raced a friends 02 camaro SS in my mustang and he beat me by 3 or 4 cars.

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

Well it's an '01, but same difference. Your Bird still did pretty good though. I was confused when that Grand Prix got involved. They passed me, and I thought that you thought it was me coming up to do another run, and you took off. Looked like you put a couple lengths on the Grand Prix from what I saw. Glad we met up though, they were some good runs.

Got a little crazy when I was close to 6,000 RPM in 4th at 120+ then grabbed 5th and kept going, and you weren't too far back either. I'm pretty sure I hit 130+ but I was a little too busy to look at the moment. :lol:

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

Yeah, i got a little nervous there too cause my speedo doesn't work.

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

why no dig runs?
and what alls done to your car?

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

We couldn't do any runs from a dig since his trans won't shift into 2nd at WOT, and my 2nd gear synchro is shot. So, we ran them from around 40-50 MPH to 120+ MPH. I saw my shift light come on in 4th gear which would be at 115 MPH, and I can run 4th out to 123 MPH at 6,000, grabbed 5th after that, so we were really hauling last night. Ninetyone wasn't falling back too much after I ran out 4th and started pulling in overdrive, so he was in the 120 MPH range too I think.

Plus, we were on a highway. Even with there being barely any traffic last night, it'd be dumb to come to a complete stop in the middle of a highway.

My mods for the Mustang are in the sig, and I'm sure he'll chime in later with his mods.

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

if you have a 350, some good heads, cam, intake, stall, gears , and some good tires, you could possibly beat him

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

Possibly, but I could always go alone, I had a nearly 200 pound passenger last night. Rule of thumb is that 100 pounds off = 1 tenth better in the quarter mile. Plus, it would start to get unfair at that point.

I'd still have my same stock internal, stock cam, stock head 4.6 which would still be 69 cubic inches smaller. I want to stroke the IROC out to a 383 and get it running again, but I'm leaning towards a single turbo setup for the Mustang.

Low boost (6 PSI or less) on a single turbo Mustang against a heads, cammed, stalled, and geared L98 Firebird would probably be a fair race.

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

I have travelled this path:
'88 iroc
5.7, 5spd,3.27 gears,hooker shorties,2.5"y-pipe,stock I pipe and SLP muffler
crank pulley,air boxes cut out,performance resource chip,275/40/17
HRP best pass 13.2@109 gotta love sea level
Lvms best pass 13.6@105 3500'DA
Moral to the story is TPI cars love manual trannys. So I would find a 350 car swap a
manual in it preferrably a t56 add 3.27-3.73 gears and the mods I previously listed you will do fine........your biggest disadvantage is just technology, the years between the two cars
is a big difference.........
No matter how you slice it you will be spending some cash!

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

No doubt, that's where technology is also a disadvantage. I paid $565 just for my SCT LiveWire tuner for the Mustang.

Whereas with the Camaro, I can buy a blow through carb from CSU that's capable of supporting nearly 1,700 HP for a whole $1,050. The amount of cash it'd take to do that on an EFI car would be ridiculous, between actual parts and tuning. Well, even though it's an '86 that was originally a 305 TPI car, it still has some 80's technology! A carbed 350.

Edit: Whoops. $1,050 is for their 850 blow through carb that'll support up to 1,400 HP. $1,550 for their carb that will support up to 1,680 HP.

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

I would certainly hope a heads/cam 350 would take a little bolt on 4.6 2 valve!

I raced a bolt on 2001ish 2 valve in my old 305 TPI/5 speed combo and got him pretty good from a roll. My car was cammed with bolt ons on stock heads and was making 225 RWHP and 285 RWTQ. He initiated the race pulling up next to me while cruising at around 45 mph and giving it some gas. I followed suit and with him getting a slight half car jump, I reeled him in and put about a car on him when we let off at around 110mph. There not too tough, but def slightly quicker stock for stock than an L98.

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

At the point of bottom 13s your next expense is a better flowing intake. Sad as it is that
cool intake from the 80s just isn't going to perform in the RPM you need to be around so there's another 300-1400 depending on which you choose.

You can always put some nitrous on a 5.7 or a manual 5.0 to give your boy a hard time;)

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

I already told you guys... when I had a stock 305 3rd Gen.. what it took to take out
the 14.7 GT.... if you see a GT that's quicker... the did the normal add ons as any one would do

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

So your saying a 305 TPI with tune, cat back, and 3.73's will beat a 2000ish GT? Most of the time I would say not, especially from a roll. In a 1/4 mile possibly with good tires and a great driver. A roll is def NOT a TPI's strong point, and most stock new edge GT's run better than 14.7 I'd have to say with a skilled driver. They make about 260 HP stock.

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

my mods are -1991 Firebird- L98 350 TPI/700r4: Edelbrock TES Headers,N10 dual cat ypipe,catback and Summit race muffler,CAI, AIT mod,throttle body bypass mod, underdrive crank,Holley AFPR (lowered to 42 lbs)
Ford 24 lb/hr injectors,Ported plenum,airfoil, Hypertech stg 2 chip, 160 degree thermo,shift kit,fan switch. i am still on the stock block

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

__________________ i still doubt that is happening.

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

i doubt a 305 would take a gt. not without better heads ,cam,gears

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

well then your pretty foolish I have the 155k 305 block in my garage
it is a 3.736 bore 305 I have the time slip from the 305 at Lebanon Valley Speedway NY
raced 5 GT's they all ran 14.7 I ran 14.3

read I did say CAT back 3:73 30# inj 58 TB fiber hood <> 1/10th
PS most importantly I tune <<<<<

now are you going to tell me my HSR Conversion from my avatar does not eat LS1's to

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

ok,put your 305 on the street against a 2000 up gt. the gt would "lose" you! you would lose sight of him i bet.Lol

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

as a matter of fact even an Lt1 would have a hard time

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

the wimpy 305's rod destroyed the crank
why would I put that stock motor back in if I did my 350 HSR conversion

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

Oh boy Ninetyone, look at this can of worms we opened up just from having some fun and doing a couple roll races last night between an L98 Firebird and an '01 GT.

The proof is in the pudding. I have a stock cam, stock head, stock internal 5 speed GT with just the mods in my sig, and I happen to be a pretty good driver.

Not taking any credit from ninetyone, because his Bird is quick, but I was consistently putting 2+ lengths on him from a 40-50 MPH roll. He actually mentioned that the one time I got about 3 or 4 lengths on him, and that's a bolt on L98.

How in the world would a 305 do any better? We should have just recorded it ninetyone, so no big arguments started. My buddy that was with me has a Droid, and they record very good for a phone. We'll have to meet up again just to get the result on camera so these guys don't complain.

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

what the H### does a roll<> have to do with 1/4 mile times
no comparison
that is all a 305 will get it was a DOG after 95MPH
And if you guy's think that's fast... your in the wrong league...
14.XX is SLOW

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

So 5 stock GT's ran exactly a 14.7 each in the same track day. Damn, ford builds a consistent car! And GT's can go quicker than that. 14.7 is for an amatuer driver. I seriously doubt 5 GT's all got the same time.

With your minimal mods I just dont see it happening. A 58mm TB isn't going to add crap for power on a 305 since the motor doesn't require all the extra air. And as far as 30lbs injectors, thats a waste as well on a bone stock 305. Mine was cammed and I had the A/F perfect with the stock 19lbs injectors. I see your semi-close to me. I'm sure I can find you plenty of stock LS1 cars to run if your new combo is an LS1 killer. What is the new set up? And what have you run in the 1/4 with it?

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

That's your explanation for what has been blurted out? That there's no comparison between a roll race and 1/4 mile times?

Yeah, sure, if one of the cars runs out of gearing after the quarter miles, or is just horribly non-aerodynamic. There is not going to be some dramatic change in how either car accelerates beyond the 1/4 mile if they're decently aerodynamic, and have adequate gearing for it. That's just non sense.

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

The recent topic was roll racing.....not 1/4 mile. And generally the higher mph trapping car will win a roll race.....just common sense. That car willobviously pull harder regardless of the timeslip.

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

Well I beat an 04 or 05 Mustang GT in the 1/8th. If I wasnt' deployed at the moment I could even post the time slip. My car is a 350 with all free mods, full exhaust, no cat, Big mouth manifold and SLP runners/Plenum ported by corvetteplenum.com. I also have underdive pulleys.

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

no I did not say all of them ran 14.7 99 0r 00 they ranged 14. 7 -9
Maybe even a .6

PS no CAT

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

Uh, yeah you did.

Bottom line is, me and ninetyone ran our cars last night, and we ran them hard, despite it not being a 1/4 mile race. He called up my buddy's cell phone and asked me how fast the one run was, since we had them flat out for a while, and he claimed his steering wheel started shaking, and that it felt like he was doing over 120.

We got consistent results every time. Roll Vs. 1/4 mile won't make a big enough difference to the point where I can put lengths on a bolt on L98, but have trouble with a geared 305 at the drag strip. That's just stupidity.

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

Not unless it has Much more power stock to stock Yes the GT will KILL the F body
If you can hook up and dominate out of the hole The race is all over
this is usually where TPI cars get Destroyed

PS 00 - 05 VS 80's the power reduced YEARS

Re: thirdgen vs 05 stang
 

Read higher range 14.7 -9