Vibration problem has me stumped.....
 

Sorry this is so long, but I wanna describe everything that's goin on. I've noticed a vibration right at highway speeds. I can feel the clutch pedal vibrate as I push it in or release it when shifting from 4-5 or downshifting from 5-4, and the shifter itself has a slight vib to it. No vib at all from the steering wheel. When I put the trans in, I also put in a new trans mount and U-Joints.

Since then, I had the driveshaft balanced 3 times, had the tires balanced anyway even though I didn't think that was it (it wasn't), changed out the pilot bushing with a pilot bearing, and replaced the throw-out bearing ......and it still persists. So - I figured as much as I didn't want it to be....it's gotta be coming from the G Force trans...:mad: So I called them to let them know how frustrated I am, ever since I installed thier trans I've had this problem.

Well - they suggested I try one more thing before I send this thing back to them. Put my old NWC T-5 back in, and see if the Vibration goes away....I had to concur since I had no better ideas myself.

I swapped out the transmissions on Saturday fully expecting the vibration to be gone, and - ITS STILL THERE!! It doesn't feel quite as bad, but it has not went away...now I give up....I'm out of possibilities here.

I did notice a loud "POP" right after I got on it from a stop the first time after the swap. Almost like something popped into place. I figured torque arm maybe...so I crawled under the car and checked the tightness of the rear torque arm mounting bolts, and both were a little loose for some reason, so I tightened them up, but - the vibration's still there.

- Could it be the clutch/pressure plate?? I had them out, and all looked OK, no missing rivets or broken springs etc.

- How about a warped flywheel?? But it doesn't vibrate in neutral when I rev and hold at any speed....so I discounted the engine causing this..

- Torque arm?? - I don't know why the bolts came loose, but how much can go wrong with that anyway? The mounts look fine.

- Rear end?? - I've always thought it seems to have plenty of "slop" in it since I got the car. Even though it only has 104,000 miles, it was beaten on regularly as well as the rest of the car in it's previous life.

As I said, I'm at wit's end with this, and I'd like to resolve it before I put another engine in this winter. Any advice - other things to look for appreciated. Thanks in advance!

C'mon - I'm desperate here.. No thoughts on this?? BTT

you said you had the driveshaft balanced 3 times... did you have the U-joints looked at or replaced? Couldn't one of those binding cause a bit o probem? If they're old, they may be worn ... if they're new, maybe they're defective :confused:

They're brand new. I had them put on at the machine shop cause I didn't realize the old ones were plastic injected from the factory. And to top it off, they didn't really NEED replaced, but I figured I was putting a new tranny in, and they had over 100,000 on them so - I got new ones.

I've had the driveshaft balanced 3 times since then. They don't bind or anything - they fit right. Besides, it's a good machine shop. I think they'da told me if there was anything screwy w/the U-joints the three times they had it....I told them about the Vibs and the 3rd time they said the guy's been balncing them for 20 years, and my driveshaft is more balanced than what the specs call for!!!... But,I wish you were right!!

Anything else I should check???

Was the clutch removed? I had an anoying vibration because my mechanic sweared left and right that he didn't need to use the clutch alignment tool. I think that he was swearing something different when he had to do the job twice :D

You know, I have the same problem, except I always thought I knew what was causing it.

When I swapped in a Moser 9" with 3.70 gears from my old 7.5" 10 bolt with 2.73 open diff plus a custom rebuilt 700R4, there was always a beating type of vibration as soon as I got up to about 70-80 MPH and continued with higher speeds. I always assumed it was the driveshaft or u-joints. I just put the car in the shop on Monday to have a custom steel driveshaft made, ditching the old one. This place makes racing driveshafts, so i am sure it will be fine for my application. I'll let you know if this fixes the problem, but this is not the first time I have heard about this porblem. I saw this in the Performance Q & A section of Chevy high performance with a switch to a recently balanced aluminum driveshaft. They suggested wheel balancing, rear end yoke preset was wrong, inferior u-joints, and driveshaft length were most likely the culprits. I'll let you know if the custom job fixes my problem though.

about the only thing left is the clutch or flywheel.......... right?


have you tried getting the flywheel resurfaced? what about putting a new clutch in?

I am thiking it could be the actual length of the driveshaft. If the new trannys sits in place a little differently than the stock unit, then the actual length of the shaft will not be optimal and COULD cause a vibration. Or if the drivetrain itself is not lining up correctly, even if the individual parts are balanced correctly. But I wouldn't know how to check that kind of thing other than getting your butt under there and looking, don't know how to actual calculate that kind of thing.

you mean, like his pinion angle is too extreme now?



edit: i have heard of u joint drive shafts needed a slight misalignment or theres problems. but i doubt that its perfectly centered... esp with both trannys.

Thanks alot for the replies!! :) - There may be hope yet....

I've had the clutch out three or four times since all this started happening. I have my own alignment tool too!! The clutch/pressure plate itself MAY have 10,000 on them since new, and they still pretty much look new.

Bandit5 - Please let me know if the driveshaft works or not. PM me or something!! I also plan to get a Moser for my car after the engine swap, and I'd be bummed to still have a vib prob after that!! I've been eyeballing aluminum driveshafts too - just reaching for ANYTHING that might make this vib problem go away...some say they tend not to vibrate at higher speeds.
BTW - the place I had the driveshaft balanced at makes racing driveshafts too.

Flywheel was also resurfaced when I put in the new clutch/pressure plate. If the flywheel were warped somehow, wouldn't I feel it through the engine too?? If I rev in neutral, at any RPM, it's smooth.

Both trannys are T-5's....guide pins are intact.

So far as getting my butt under there.....geez - I've practically lived under there!!!! There have been other butts under there also from the tranny shop here locally, and they can't pinpoint any problems either. They said the pinion angle looked fine to them, because I asked about that too, but there were no measurements taken.

I've searched this board, and many others have had this same identical problem, but not one post stated what was done to correct it, or if it was ever actually found! I actually catch myself looking for other Camaros in the classifieds locally because I just don't see a solution to this other than changing everything.....but I kinda like my '83, and I'd lose my a** getting rid of it....I have way more into it than it's worth already.

Anything else I should be looking at or trying???

bent axle?


edit:

i sat here thinking for a good 3 mins before i came up with that one... everything else i think you already tried.

ooooh - good call... any way he would be able to test that theory without disassembing or taking to a shop? (i.e. put the rear on jackstands and watch em spin?)

i honestly donno..

i would imagine that the diff would be so slight that you couldnt see it with the wheel on.... you might have to actually pull the axle out to see it...



i donno, never checked for a bent axle on these cars before....

Actually - it IS a good idea, but that's been done already. Of course I'm not gonna set ANY car on jackstands and goose it up to 65 MPH....might be just a tad dangerous- if not bone-headed. People get hurt that way.

I went as far as winding out 1st gear, and it seemed fine. Maybe I need to go to a shop with a dyno or something, but I'm thinking most likely it would be hard to pinpoint that way (wouldn't everything shake??)

I was also thinking about the tranny mount again....mine has the one in the center of the cross member, which I replaced - but there's like two rubber "donut" ones that have never been replaced. It's kinda like a two piece crossmember. It's the original though. No parts stores sell, or even list them. I'll try the dealer tomorrow...

What tranny mount did you use? Some of the replacement poly mounts are taller than stock which raises the tail of the trans and affects the angle at the front U-joint, which can cause a vibration the same as having too much pinion angle. An easy fix for this is to put some ¼' spacers between the trans crossmember and the frame rails.

Pete

i got curious myself.... hopefully i can get a straight (hehe) answer from this:

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...hreadid=208015

Thanks for the reply Pete - It's a stock replacement, not poly.

Any thoughts on these "donut" rubber mounts on my crossmember?? I'm also gonna try to see if there's any thing up with my rear drums or axles....maybe take the tires off and eyeball how true they're running.....this vibration doesn't seem as bad with the old trans in now, but it's still there so I can't really say changing trannys made a huge difference....

Any other suggestions?? Thx in advance.

Allright, new custom driveshaft is in, along with a couple of other odds and ends. :) Anyway, I just took it on a 2.5 hour highway trip and here are my results: No, it did NOT fix the problem. It did calm it down a little, especially the nasty vibration when I release the throttle, but it still vibrated above around 75-80. I am currently stumped.

The main thing you and I have in common with this is that we both had a new stock type tranny put in before we noticed this problem. Granted, I did all the suspension work a few weeks before (entire Spohn setup and Moser 9" with aluminum axels) but after the tranny blew. After I fixed the chattering posi-clutches, I put the rebuilt 700R4 (to handle about 700lbs/tq) in, then I noticed this problem. There has to be something with the transmissions. I have had my wheels balanced several times, my driveshaft is obviously not the problem (also includes U-joints and yokes) so I dunno what the hell is up.

Somone give us a clue.

Just a shot in the dark, but I think it might help. Confused1 you said that you feel a little vib. when you just barley push in the clutch, right? I had a simular prolblem with my car, and one or more of the little spring fingers had some how gotten bent,the fingers on the pressuer plate. Very slightly, but they were ( so slight in fact, that the human eye almost souldnt see it) just an idea, dont know if it will help, but I thought I'd throw it out there, hope it works.


1WickedSS

I read an article on this a while back, with a guy who had the almost same exact problem, dude even bought like 3 driveshafts, and had them balanced like 3 times each. He even hunted for and found a place that balanced the driveshaft with the transmisson yoke on (most don't). He found varying levels of relief with each fix, but never found it, until he took it to one shop that balanced the driveshaft on the car. Just because a driveshaft is new, doesn't mean it doesn't have excessive runout. Yoke fitment can cause problems, you can use a mic to measure the outside diameter and the inner diameter on the yoke and output shaft. I will be happy to scan the article for you (if i can get my scanner to work) and send it 2 you, just let me know.

Is the vibe at engine speed, or drive line speed?

If you're driving down the road and it's vibing like a mother, and you push in on the clutch and let the engine idle, does it go away?

If it does, it's an engine or flywheel issue. Any mention of what you might have had done to the flywheel as far as balancing is conspicuous by its absence.

Can you put it in 4th gear (direct drive) and give the engine just exactly the right amount of gas to where you take the load off the drive train to where it's neither pushing the car nor dragging it; and push the clutch in and let it back out, and change the vibe? If so, it's either an unbalanced clutch disc or a bad pilot bearing or bushing. Also conspicuous by its absence from your efforts.

If it doesn't do either of those things, i.e. it keeps right on vibing no matter what you do with the engine or clutch, then it's a drive line problem.

Cut the drive system up into the smallest possible parts logically, and identify which section of it is the culprit.

Sorry, I haven't read any articles lately, I'm an idiot. I use experience and accomplishment as the basis for my techniques.

Yeah, we would all love to have this kind of experience under our belts... but it just doesn't seem to happen like that. So we get "linked" to relevant information through a third party, which in this case, seems like he may have found a solution.

In my case, I am almost positive it is the drivetrain that is making the vibration. Especially since I replaced my engine a month ago, and this happend with both engines. Now, there is always a vibration with mine, even if I shift into neutral. But what 85TransAm406 wrote about balancing the driveshaft while it is on the car seems like th key. I will look into this a little further over the next week or so.

Well i used the article as a possible reference because I personally haven't had that problem, never really seen it before. The article is on another guy's personal experience and accomplishment, not a tech article. It's nearly impossible to have experience and accomplishment in every possible situation, even when it's what i already do for a living. Almost every professional mechanic relies on tech articles and updates to stay on top of potential problems, even the best ASE certified master auto technicians(which i happen to be, so i do have a little experience with this type of thing).

You just may be onto something RB!!! YES - at that speed, if I set the throttle so I'm not pushing the car nor dragging it as you say above, the vib seems worse and I can feel it in the shifter a little whether the clutch pedal is in or out!!! Also I can feel the clutch pedal itself vibrating with my foot as I push the clutch in or out at those speeds!

Sounds close to what you're describing.

I just put a pilot bearing in instead of a bushing to try and solve this, but no go. Got the flywheel turned but not balanced when I got the car. But if the car is in neutral, and I hold it at highway rpm's, it's smooth.

The clutch/pressure plate is a Rhino (Autozone) brand, maybe 10,000 miles on it tops, but it has looked visibly good every time I've looked at it. Hmmmm....maybe I should change it to see what happens anyway??


That's two votes for the clutch!! This makes sense too since I can feel it in the pedal! Thx Wicked! :)

Well - I'm gonna get a new clutch, pressure plate, have the flywheel cleaned up again and balanced and let you guys know! I have no other way to rule the clutch out that I know of. Thx for the replies! :hail Hopes this solves it!!

What about mine!? Is there no help for the guy witht he 700R4? :(

Going by the method RB described, which I agree with, the clutch is not the problem. If it were, it'd vibrate, at "highway RPM", in neutral.

The idea's brought to this thread from an article, while good, are only useful AFTER a diagnostic SYSTEM has pin pointed the driveline as the problem. Doing various "tests" as RB suggested, is the proper way to isolate the vibe. Another way would be to remove the drive line, and run the car in 5th gear at "highway RPM" and see if it vibrates. If is does, then it definitely IS NOT the drive line.

If you DO perform theses tests, and find that the drive line appears to be causing the vibe, you could check the output shaft and slip yoke bushing. On my car, the slip yoke bushing was worn, and the output shaft was bent -slightly. This cause the front of the drive shaft to move in an orbital fashion. Replacing the slip yoke bushing held the front of the driveshaft in the proper location, and the problem went away. But again, this idea is only for if you determine the the vibe is generated by the driveline.

Bandit5, this post applies to you too. If it vibes in neutral w/the engine idling, I'd say it's pretty much the driveline.

OK - so it's not the clutch?? With the clutch in or out AT ACTUAL HIGHWAY SPEED - it vibrates....if sitting still and revving it up to highway RPM's, the engine is smooth, and of course the driveline isn't turning.... I mentioned this towards the top of this post.
Does this mean it's a driveline problem???

The link to any helpful "article" has not been posted, just mentioned that there's one somewhere. Obviously, you can't remove a driveline and run a car in 5th gear. How do you pull a driveshaft out and run a tranny without losing all the oil?? Sounds like a great idea...but how??

Also in the post above, I mentioned that it does this with two different transmissions installed in the car. Which makes it possible, but very doubtful that both have bent output shafts or loose slip yoke bushings...

My first and foremost objective was to rule out that the problem is being caused by my new "G Force" T-5, because I was (and still willing) to send it back if I thought it was causing this problem. I don't have anything solid enough to make me think that yet. For me, it's a 2 thousand dollar question!! I can only say that the vibs seem a bit worse with the G Force in though. Could this be because the clearances are much "tighter" in the G Force than my well worn NWC trans?? Thanks for the reply Tom - I was really hoping it was the clutch...I'll go back to the garage today and see what else I can discover. Frustration continues.....

I still say clutch, It did it with two different trannies in, hello there is a reason for that. If you can feel the vibration in your foot when you slightly push the clutch in, then its the clutch. think about it, your not pushing in the transmission pedal, its the clutch pedal, and when you just slightly push it in the throwout bearing is just starting to make contact with the spring fingers of your pressure plate, thus transmitting the vibration to your foot. STill I would bet the farm on the clutch malfunctioning. honestally what other common variable do you have?



1WickedSS

If you jack the rear of the car, oil loss will be minimal. Even if lifted horizontally, it'll loose some oil when you pull the slip yoke, but there will still be enough in the trans to do that little test. Do you bave a spare slip yoke to slap on there jsut for that test? That's another method that would keep the oil in, but I think jacking just the rear of the car would be sufficient.



I agree that is is very doubtfull that both trans's have bent shafts and worn slip yoke bushings. You definitely have a tough one going on here. But IMO, if the clutch is out of balance, and is causing a vibration, it will do so in neutral too. The clutch can't really be selective as to when it vibrates, IMO. For me, the next step would be to remove the driveline, 5th gear, 2200 RPM, and see what happens.
->No vibe, throw the DL back in and see if it shakes, still up on jacks.
-> Vibe? Get after the clutch.

Here's one last test; if it vibes with the shaft out, pull the trans. Start the car (DON'T OPUSH IN THE CLUTCH!!) and rev it to highway RPM. IF it Vibes w/the trans in but no DL, but no vibe w/no trans, I'd have to think it's the trans.

To 1WickedSS, the throwout bearing is ALWAYS pressing against the diaphram, whether you have your foot on the clutch or not. There is a spring in the slave that keeps consatant force on the clutch fork, so if the diaphram has run-out, the TB will always be moving/vibrating. And two trannies doesn't mean it's the clutch. it could still be the driveline.

The only thing you haven't had checked is the clutch...looking at it is not good enough. A slight clutch imbalance can cause very strange vibrations. Cheap " Jobber " brand clutches often are poorly balanced. By poor balance remember...we are talking very small figures here. A few grams is a large amount.

Revving it up in neutral may not indicate a problem. You may have a slight vibration but not enough to be noticable.

However...when you get on the highway, Harmonics come into affect. Any rotating component will resonate at various frequencies...when these frequencies match, you can get a noticable vibration. A component even slightly out of balance can make this problem even worse.

I would suggest taking the clutch assembly and the Flywheel down to the machine shop and check the Balance of the assembly when the Clutch Assembly is bolted to the Flywheel. I bet that you will find that the combo is out of balance.

Balance the Flywheel separately. Then have the Clutch Pressure plate balanced. I believe that this will eliminate your problem.

Why did the vibration occurr after changing transmissions? Because you changed the origianal mix of parts. A slightly different tranny alignment, you may not have replaced the driveshaft in the same position as before ( Rear yoke runout . Flipping the driveshaft 180 deg in the rear yoke can sometimes work miracles. My rear yoke is now indexed to the driveshaft with white paint), you've changed the position of the clutch on the flywheel ( GM clutches are not " indexed" they can go on several ways... im balance tolerances can stack up )....you may have moved or removed the dampner weight attached to the rear of the tranny. A hundred and one different possibilities as to why the vibration is now noticable where it was not before.

You may also want to check that the bellhousing is centered correctly. Chcek it with a Dial-indicator. Lakewood's site has a how-to. If you changed the bellhousing then this could be a factor. Still, my money is on a Flywheel\Clutch combo imbalance.

Being optimistic...when you do get the problem solved....index all the components with a paint mark. IE: Driveshaft to rear yoke and Clutch to Flywheel. Then if you take things apart...at least you can line them back up the way they came off.

Vibartions can be an SOB to fix.

I'll give it a go. Flip the driveshaft in the rear yoke 180 deg. See if that helps. I doubt it...but hey try the simple fixes first.

Now things get more complicated. I'm pretty sure that GM TC's are not indexed to the flexplate... that is they can on three different ways.

Put the car up on a hoist... remove the inspection cover.. start the car up and look for any wobble or runout in the flexplate or Convertor. You may want to check things with a Dial indicator...rotating engine by hand of course.

Assuming that the flexplate is true.

1) Unbolt the Convertor...rotate it to the next hole and bolt it up again.

2) Road test. If vibration still there...then repeat step 1.

3) If vibration still present...remove convertor and try a different one if you have access to one. Beg, borrow or steal. If vibration changes then it points to out of balance convertor or Convertor snout run out. A good machine shop should be able to check run out of snout and Convertor balance.

"Cheap" Higher stall convertors are notorious for poor balance and out of round snouts. These are the " Fin Basher " specials, usually made some some local Tranny and Convertor rebuilders. Case is cut apart, fins are smashed flat with a hammer and then the whole mess is welded back up. Lots of no-name brands available from Mail Order houses as well. Buyer beware. You get what you pay for.

Get a hold of another shaft and see if that fixes it. I've had my steel and aluminum (x2) shafts balanced and it still didn't help. I got a stock GM NEW steel shaft off ebay for 55bucks...that's right, the vibration is gone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have an update....
 

First thanks for all the replies I've gotten from other knowledgable people here (Tom400, Wicked, RB,Chickenman35 etc...)

Out of fustration, I took the car to a THIRD tranny shop (AAMCO) - and the guy test drove it and said the car has plenty of power!! (3 for 3!!! :D ) so I guess it's not my imagination - It does haul!!

Anyways, he said he felt the vibration in all it's glory, put it on the rack and said he's 99% positive the front yoke on the driveshaft is fitting too loosley in the trans, and I'm beating the sh*t out of the tranny and rear when I am up to those speeds. He wiggled it sideways back and forth and said that play shouldn't be there, and I should buy another front yoke. :doh:

It didn't seem to be much play to me, but I don't know how much it should have...it'll move maybe 1/8 of an inch if I had to guess.

So I just ordered a new one, and of course it wasn't cheap... - 137 bucks!!! :rolleyes:

I'll post back once I get the thing and install it. I hope this works. I also hope I didn't screw up the tailshaft bushing on the new G Force while I was driving it like this.

Sorry if this post seems so long, but it appears a few others chimed in on my thread that seem to have about the same problem.....I'll keep you guys posted....

cool.. just let us know if that works for ya. :)

Out of curiousity, how does the front yoke fit into your trans? Is it tight?? Were you using the same front yoke on the other two drive shafts??

About one year ago, I changed the bushing in the rear of the transmission to stop a 'whine' sound I was getting around 50mph under throttle float (not off, but not really on the gas). That worked for the sound but did nothing for my vibration problem.

When mine was worn (mentioned in one of my posts above), it went in and out like a.... well I better not say here, but it was loose.

When I replaced the slip yoke bushing, the shaft would slide through the seal, and "hit" the bushing. Then it was a snug fit the rest of the way in. Enough that I wondered to myself if this additional friction would hurt fuel economy. It didn't. Probably because the added friction was offset by the lack of vibration.

Similar Vibration
 

I posted a similar topic a couple weeks ago. I have an IROC w/ T-5 and a vibration that sounds kind of similar. While I cannot feel it in the clutch pedal, It is quite apparent throughout the car when I remove my foot from the gas at 65+. I've also done the driveshaft balance, trying multiple driveshafts(aluminum & Steel)...tailshaft bushing...wheel bearings. My most recent attempt at getting rid the the vibration was to change the tranny mount because I thought the driveline angle was a little off. I put in a prothane tranny mount, and removed it a few days later as it made the vibration much worse. Anyhow, I've heard the suggestion of a bent axle, and have not yet tried to check. I am leaning toward thinking it's something close to the transmission, since the firmer mount made the vibration much more apparent. I'm open to any suggestions, and just thought I would get my information out there as well.

Thanks

After trying multiple shaft myself, I was ready to give up!

I also tried shimming the tranny mount up thinking it was pinion angle related but it ended up being the shaft.

Now, with my new steel shaft and poly mount she rides great.
Try swapping in a KNOWN good shaft directly from another car.

Tom - I still might have a bushing issue also, but I kinda don't think so since it vibrated with both trannys in the car. Hopefully....

jimboc0 - sounds like my problem...when you set your throttle at those speeds and kinda not push the car or drag it down, does the vibs get worse??

I'll post back if this fixes things..

The vibe you guys are both describing is/was just like the one I had. Like jimboc0 said, a poly bushing made the vibe worse in my car, but the bushing fixed it.

Confuzed, have you tried it w/the shaft removed yet?

Update...
 

I got the new yoke from the dealer today, and I ended up having to drop off the driveshaft back to the machine shop so they can press it in. Couldn't do it with a bench vice. I did kinda test it by putting it in my spare trans, and it seems to be much tighter than the old one...seems promising.

I really didn't need to spend more $$$ on this driveshaft, but I'm already up to my neck. Let's see....so far I have 45 bucks for U-joint replacement, 80 bucks for shaft balance, and now 137 bucks for the new yoke.

Hell, I didn't even bother asking how much it'll be to press this new yoke on. I just hope this works!!

BTW - I also got what GM calls "isolater bushings" for the tranny crossmember....of course those were 52 bucks...for 4 little rubber "donuts"...:(

Isolator bushings? hmm, thats a new one.
I'm interested. Remember that by putting spacers between the frame and crossmember, that you are effectively changing the pinion angle of the rear. For the amount that you put between the frame and crossmember, I'd put the same amount between the tranny mount and the crossmember bolt. I want these too now!

As I said somewhere in this post, I have a two piece crossmember and AFAIK, '85 up only has a one piece. These "donuts or Isolators" are a stock item on my car...

OK.....frustration continues.....
 

I had the slip yoke replaced, installed it and the vib is still there, although a MAY be a tad better. :mad:

Then again, I do have the original old tranny in the car right now, and since the old slip yoke went many miles, I may also have a bad slip yoke bushing too, at least on this tranny. The new slip yoke doesn't seem to fit as snug into the back of the trans as it should still.

But - it seems to fit the G Force trans nice and snug.

How hard is it to replace a slip yoke bushing?? Or would it be easier to just remove the whole trans?? If that's the case - I'll just reinstall the G Force.....

I'ts easy, but it's honestly probably easier to just swap trans's. The hardest part in switching the bushing is getting the old one out. But that isn't too bad. Just cave it in, and pull it out w/vise grips. Use something properly sized, and just taaaaap the new one in. Just taaap it in, just taaapity tap it in. lol -Happy Gilmore.

Re: OK.....frustration continues.....
 

Now when you take the tranny out...take the flwheel and cltutch assembly to the machine shop and have the balance checked....

:lol: I remember that part!!!

I guess I'll be pulling this d*mn thing again for like, the hundreth trillionth time!! I'm tellin ya - I'm wearing the bolts out!! Thanks for the help with this - Seems you had this pretty much figured out earlier in the post Tom (or I hope so). I wanted to put my G Force tranny back in anyway - just didn't want to do it until the new engine was in during the winter. Shoots that down. I'll post back the results.

BTW - Chickenman : Thx, I'll have the flywheel checked too.

While I'm at it, I'll see if I can purchase any stock from my machine shop, since all my money seems to be going there anyway!! lol

take the rear end cover off and check the ring and pinion for broken teeth. that is an easy thing to check and that was my vibration problem. just my 2 cents:D