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History / OriginalityGot a question about 1982-1992 Camaro or Firebird history? Have a question about original parts, options, RPO codes, when something was available, or how to document your car? Those questions, answers, and much more!
^ Great theory but not possible even if GM wanted to. Modern safety standards are hidden in a 2016 Camaro, but they could not be hidden in a 1969 Camaro. For instance, the "A" pillars on a 1969 are so thin they look like you could push them in with your hand.
Too bad, real retro cars would be awesome but the legal culture forbids it.
I spoke with a collector out at the MCACN show this past weekend who had a 1991 1LE with 2 miles on it and a 1992 B4C also with 2. When I told him they were likely both $30,000+- cars he seemed disappointed & said he'd have done better with the money if he had left it in stocks!
Anybody that's expecting a car to provide retirement income, needs to reevaluate their finances. Cars are the second largest financial purchase in most people's lives and they also depreciate in value faster than any other purchase. Think about this, most products can be returned for a full refund within a certain time frame. If you buy a car, you lose value of what you paid versus what you get upon it's return, even if it's the same day!
I recently purchased a new car and the contract said right on it that in the state of Florida, the 72 hour cooling off period, used by most people to return a product after they've thought about it, doesn't apply to cars. So, in Florida, returning your new car purchase to the selling dealer, the day after you bought it, makes it a used car with depreciated value.
I spoke with a collector out at the MCACN show this past weekend who had a 1991 1LE with 2 miles on it and a 1992 B4C also with 2. When I told him they were likely both $30,000+- cars he seemed disappointed & said he'd have done better with the money if he had left it in stocks!
Cars and stocks are risky!
$18,000 in the bank at 2% compounded monthly would net you $30,000 over 25 years. No parking fees to apply against any gains either.
You are far better off buying a car that is 10 or even 20 years old at it's low before it begins to climb again in value than you are buying one new and putting it away. That extra 10-20 years where you can compound your money with other investments is invaluable compared to the depreciation your would expect in the car's early life cycle.
As collectors begin to shift out of 60's & 70's vehicles (at or near their peak) and into 80's & 90's (at or near their low) expect the prices to rise. Low mile and low production cars will enjoy the highest returns but all will get pulled up by the rising tide.
From: Doghouse ······································ Car: 1989 Formula 350 Vert Engine: 350 L98 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: B&W 3.27
Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI
Transmission: 700R4, M5
Axle/Gears: Sag 3.73, B&W 3.45
Re: Current Camaro High Prices
Figure out what a new 396 Camaro Convertible value was in 1969... Apply that to the inflation calculator. And calculate that to what the DJIA was in 1969 and see where your money was best spent or saved.
Here are some numbers to think about.
in 1969 (Jan 2) DOW was 809 Today it is about 17,800 for a return of 22X your investment
In 1969 $1 is worth $6.48 today... for about a 6.5X return (inflation calculator)
In 1969 a Camaro Convertible 396/375HP was $7000? today it is worth 75,400 for a 10.8X increase...
Put your money in stocks... Much Better than a Car...
High prices for a collector car requires a seller who is patient and a willing buyer at his price. That can take a lot of time to get the right two people together. At auctions where there are high reserves, 1/3 to 1/2 of the cars do not sell.
Mopar's were "Hot" 3 years ago. So many rebuilders have flooded the market now, and prices for anything but the most rare are down. They have a lot invested in these cars and need a good price for a profit. But the cars more often go unsold. There is a price level that separates the big time collector and one who has 3-5 cars. Most 60's 70's muscle cars are at the top of the later groups price level. I don't see that rising very fast in the future.
Our cars are on the lower end of the scale and sooner or later the market will correct that. People want our cars, they just are not accustomed to the prices we want for them yet.
Figure out what a new 396 Camaro Convertible value was in 1969... Apply that to the inflation calculator. And calculate that to what the DJIA was in 1969 and see where your money was best spent or saved.
Here are some numbers to think about.
in 1969 (Jan 2) DOW was 809 Today it is about 17,800 for a return of 22X your investment
In 1969 $1 is worth $6.48 today... for about a 6.5X return (inflation calculator)
In 1969 a Camaro Convertible 396/375HP was $7000? today it is worth 75,400 for a 10.8X increase...
Put your money in stocks... Much Better than a Car...
....and if you bought that same Camaro in 1976 for $800 it would be 94X return assuming that over time it cost you nothing to store/maintain that car.
Anybody that's expecting a car to provide retirement income, needs to reevaluate their finances. Cars are the second largest financial purchase in most people's lives and they also depreciate in value faster than any other purchase. Think about this, most products can be returned for a full refund within a certain time frame. If you buy a car, you lose value of what you paid versus what you get upon it's return, even if it's the same day!
I recently purchased a new car and the contract said right on it that in the state of Florida, the 72 hour cooling off period, used by most people to return a product after they've thought about it, doesn't apply to cars. So, in Florida, returning your new car purchase to the selling dealer, the day after you bought it, makes it a used car with depreciated value.
How do you like that scat pack Charger? Those seem like the perfectly balanced 4 door. Not too much power that its ridiculous but enough to command respect from most of whats out there. I really like them.
It's a nice car, for a Dodge. It's very fast with the 8 speed trans. With 500 horses and the active exhaust, it's very addicting to drive with your foot heavy on the throttle. It's my wife's car and she really enjoys it!!
Those cars on the first page almost make me sad. Love that values are going up, but I'd have drove the **** out of those things. Too damn pretty to not enjoy.
Those cars on the first page almost make me sad. Love that values are going up, but I'd have drove the **** out of those things. Too damn pretty to not enjoy.
doesnt mean you cant drive a beauty hard at times. Just make keep it nice looking
From: Doghouse ······································ Car: 1989 Formula 350 Vert Engine: 350 L98 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: B&W 3.27
Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI
Transmission: 700R4, M5
Axle/Gears: Sag 3.73, B&W 3.45
Re: Current Camaro High Prices
There is a saying (kind of) that says "Don't ride your horse hard and put it away wet" In the same idea, "Don't Drive your car hard and put it away dirty." The worst thing you can do to a car is leave it dirty, when you clean it, always vacuum the interior and make sure you get out any stains that time, don't just leave them for next time. Wipe off your door jams and open and clean around the hatch.. Also wipe down your engine bay with a rag as the last thing...
I've been called crazy but I also shake floor mats out after hauling people around, and keep McGuire's/armorals protectant in the cargo area of my DD.
I just like a clean car, it provides a sort of calm to me to ride in my car/jeep/etc when it's clean inside (and out, though sometimes the out isn't possible such as in the winter time. . .)
There is a saying (kind of) that says "Don't ride your horse hard and put it away wet" In the same idea, "Don't Drive your car hard and put it away dirty." The worst thing you can do to a car is leave it dirty, when you clean it, always vacuum the interior and make sure you get out any stains that time, don't just leave them for next time. Wipe off your door jams and open and clean around the hatch.. Also wipe down your engine bay with a rag as the last thing...
J
John
yeah.... you have to drive them hard sometimes. unless its like a < 1000 miles car
Last edited by IMissMy86TA; Dec 7, 2015 at 09:17 AM.
^ Great theory but not possible even if GM wanted to. Modern safety standards are hidden in a 2016 Camaro, but they could not be hidden in a 1969 Camaro. For instance, the "A" pillars on a 1969 are so thin they look like you could push them in with your hand.
Too bad, real retro cars would be awesome but the legal culture forbids it.
iirc on these boards some time ago I saw a guy who made a roll cage hidden through the car body.It went through the A pillars around the door hidden inside the rocker panel.That car's inside compartment would pass crash tests easy ,even small overlap crashtests done in US by IIHS .Yes it doesn't have air bags ,abs ,eps ,etc...but crash wise you can update your car ,you just need alot of money.
From: Doghouse ······································ Car: 1989 Formula 350 Vert Engine: 350 L98 Transmission: 700R4 Axle/Gears: B&W 3.27
Car: 87 Formula T-Top, 87 Formula HT
Engine: 5.1L TPI, 5.0L TPI
Transmission: 700R4, M5
Axle/Gears: Sag 3.73, B&W 3.45
Re: Current Camaro High Prices
Originally Posted by eseibel67
^ Great theory but not possible even if GM wanted to. Modern safety standards are hidden in a 2016 Camaro, but they could not be hidden in a 1969 Camaro. For instance, the "A" pillars on a 1969 are so thin they look like you could push them in with your hand.
Too bad, real retro cars would be awesome but the legal culture forbids it.
Actually it was just signed into law that anyone can take old cars and make clones of old cars, they have to get permission from the manufacturer. The only sticking point would be that they have to meet modern fuel emissions tests. They cannot make more than something like 320 a year. (It was a strange number). And the design had to be 25 years or older. They do not need to meet Crash test standards but they needed modern safety equipment. The way I read it was they did not need airbags, but they needed modern seat belts.
Right now only GM makes an aftermarket engine that meets emissions standards. I suspect those 3rd gen GM test cars running around with the 4Cyl turbo with the 6th gen last year had something to do with it.
I mean seriously making my own 1957 chevy would be a dream for me. too bad I am not mechanically inclined nor do I have that kind of time. Maybe a retirement project!
Originally Posted by okfoz
Actually it was just signed into law that anyone can take old cars and make clones of old cars, they have to get permission from the manufacturer. The only sticking point would be that they have to meet modern fuel emissions tests. They cannot make more than something like 320 a year. (It was a strange number). And the design had to be 25 years or older. They do not need to meet Crash test standards but they needed modern safety equipment. The way I read it was they did not need airbags, but they needed modern seat belts.
Right now only GM makes an aftermarket engine that meets emissions standards. I suspect those 3rd gen GM test cars running around with the 4Cyl turbo with the 6th gen last year had something to do with it.
speaking from experience, buying one of these low mile cars is a mistake. these cars dont like sitting. the fuel systems get gummed up and need replaced, the underhood electricals ALL need replaced, all of the bushings and brake hoses dry rot and make worse noises than worn out 150k mile bushing. then you get into the fluids that need changed, tires that are harder than diamonds and slicker than oiled down ice. if you want to invest in one, buy one thats already been sorted, and drive it. driving them is the only way to keep everything from going bad. everything needs replaced sooner or later, might as well make that replacement due to use and wear rather than sitting and dilapidation. just because it has a nice shiny body shell and everything's proper and accounted for does not mean its a good car. like i said, im speaking from experience.
Good advice. I bought my 86 with 111,000 miles on it and it runs like a top. Nice and broke in and the previous owner already worked out many of the bugs that plague these cars.
Just bought this 91 Z28 a4 with 42k miles with 0 paint work. It is like new and looks like it has never been in rain. Guess what I paid? I will fess up tomorrow.
Just bought this 91 Z28 a4 with 42k miles with 0 paint work. It is like new and looks like it has never been in rain. Guess what I paid? I will fess up tomorrow.
I got an absolute STEAL. 1982 Z28, just turned 20,700 miles. Just like a brand new car. All original other than the battery, tires (it came with the original Eagle GT tires, and I kept them) and I installed a new stripe kit. Also had the alternator replaced, but I have the original and it's getting rebuilt and going back on the car. Bought it in January for a whopping $6,000.
I got an absolute STEAL. 1982 Z28, just turned 20,700 miles. Just like a brand new car. All original other than the battery, tires (it came with the original Eagle GT tires, and I kept them) and I installed a new stripe kit. Also had the alternator replaced, but I have the original and it's getting rebuilt and going back on the car. Bought it in January for a whopping $6,000.
From what I'm seeing for cars in this condition and mileage, it should have had an asking price around $13,000 to $15,000. Am I wrong??
I got an absolute STEAL. 1982 Z28, just turned 20,700 miles. Just like a brand new car. All original other than the battery, tires (it came with the original Eagle GT tires, and I kept them) and I installed a new stripe kit. Also had the alternator replaced, but I have the original and it's getting rebuilt and going back on the car. Bought it in January for a whopping $6,000.
thats a fair deal you got .. the 82 listed above will probably bring in the 10k range but might take some time to do it ..
I have a standing offer for the car at $15,000. I'm emotionally attached to the car, though. He said he'd take it whenever I decided to sell it. I'll give it a year or so and see what happens. I talk to the guy all the time and he reminds me constantly that he wants it...
Believe me, I've been following f body prices forever. I've had probably 40 third gens alone since my first one in 1991, and around 60 f bodies total. They are worth whatever someone is willing to pay. The upward prices are undeniable. But especially the low mile, super perfect original cars. Granted, some people are asking astronomical prices and they'll never get what their asking, but it all depends on what the buyer is looking for. I, personally don't care if my car was a crossfire, lg4, or if we're a year newer and had an l69. If I wanted a fast car, I wouldn't have bought an early third gen to begin with. The guy with the $15k standing offer on my car had one like it when he was younger, and wants a mint, original car the same color combo. It's obviously not worth that amount to anyone else, but to the right guy it is. When I bought it, I would have paid way more as well for the same reason...it was the year and color combo I wanted.
Believe me, I've been following f body prices forever. I've had probably 40 third gens alone since my first one in 1991, and around 60 f bodies total. They are worth whatever someone is willing to pay. The upward prices are undeniable. But especially the low mile, super perfect original cars. Granted, some people are asking astronomical prices and they'll never get what their asking, but it all depends on what the buyer is looking for. I, personally don't care if my car was a crossfire, lg4, or if we're a year newer and had an l69. If I wanted a fast car, I wouldn't have bought an early third gen to begin with. The guy with the $15k standing offer on my car had one like it when he was younger, and wants a mint, original car the same color combo. It's obviously not worth that amount to anyone else, but to the right guy it is. When I bought it, I would have paid way more as well for the same reason...it was the year and color combo I wanted.
As the old saying goes...there is a BUTT for every seat.
