Who cares how fast your car is if it sucks? I see tons of stupid kids at the track with their "project" cars all the time, of all makes. Primered, no interior, thing barely runs, barely stops, barely turns. One day it will be something.....yeah right, just go buy a fast car and save yourself the trouble.

i dont hit a wall in my L98... pulls strong till 80 or so

but the srt4 has a good pull in all speeds it seems. i been in a light modded one and it pulls harder up top then my L98 so it seems, but my bottom end is nice

race the srt 4 to the 1/8 mile and if u get a launch u will have him. if he cant drive real good, you got him. u might even hold him off till the 1/4.

an IROC in decent condition cannot be mentioned in the same sentence with a Geo Metro. That's what he's looking at. Building an IROC. A vehicle which has nice styling, formidable handling ability, and has the largest aftermarket (because of Gen. I SBC) in existence. Your counterpoint about the Geo is a little thoughtless.

He didn't say "I want an SRT-4 because I just plain want a new car", now did he? His reasoning was that it was faster, and thus he was going to buy it.

And FYI, squeeks and rattles aren't something that one can't get out of an old car with a little effort, even these rattley old 3rd gens.

oh my! So now the SRT-4 is faster than a LS1 F-body too (which is slower than a TTA )?

Don't really want to start a big argument, so my revised comments are as such, lol.

You may have spent $3k, but you still have an L03. This doesn't help your argument.

Entire rear axles from an L98 are not expensive on the classifieds.

Used 350s with good internals when carefully sought out are not expensive.

Good 600 CFM carbs are not terribly expensive. Q-jets can be modified to flow 750 cfm and support wild setups, and non CCC ones can be had rebuilt by a shop for like $90. That's what I paid for a pre-CCC one for my Cutlass.

TH-350s and used stall converters are not expensive.

A setup involving modified Vortecs, a Comp. XE-276 and an RPM-Air gap are not expensive. Pony Killer runs this setup with a nice carb, a TH-350 and a 3500 stall in a g-body and has netted 11s. He has many things (like a stripped interior, and I believe forged internals) which help that significantly, but nonetheless, this H/C/I setup is both cheap and very potent.

Entry level roots style superchargers from Weiand are not expensive for carb SBC. They start at $1500 new, $1000 or less on eBay. Not to be used with the H/C/I I just listed, but could be used very effectively in a budget build.

One can go decently fast with $3k in a third gen regardless of if he's starting with a Iron Duke or a 1LE IROC if he knows his stuff. I've done the whole mess of having to switch motor mounts and modify tranny mounts and adapt to various other chassis problems to accomodate a V8 SBC and 700-R4 in a car that didn't come with one with my SBC/700 in the Olds. Not that big of deal, sorry.

Spending money on any number of fuel injection setups or built A4/T-56 setups is more practical in terms of fuel economy and getting the most power out of your setup, but it's much more expensive than just starting with a basic carb and TH-350 setup and going from there. If you can put your own stuff together, problem solve and be patient enough to tune, along with willing to go with an old-school setup, you can go far on less $$$ than you think.

It's too bad the SRT4's are FWD

Nice cars though.

Since when is a LS1 a thirdgen?

You totally missed the point of buying a new car.

Go sink $10K into a thirdgen and *** forbid you have a family emergency and have to sell it...have fun getting $5-7K for it Not to mention if you get into an accident have fun trying to recoupe EVERY penny you put into that thing.

Things aren't as black and white and as simple as you make them out to be.

But yeah, my Geo metro comment still holds true. You're taking an older, less expensive car and dumping a lot of money into it to make it faster than a "newer, stock" car.

That's why I laugh at a lot of the import guys. They'll take a clapped out honda or something and dump $20K into and go around beating a lot of other cars that cost 3 times as much. That's great, if that's your thing but there some people enjoy having a new car. :dunno:

As far as your other long post. Yeah,....let's throw a TH350 and a nice big stall in there. That'd make one GREAT daily driver hahaha. Why not add some 4.56's into the mix too. All in the name of being faster than a SRT-4.

Oh and unless there are two Pony Killer's on this board the one I know on this board doesn't drive a G-body

I appraised my low low mileage 91 Z (did some mods) They appraised it to 15,500 bucks! Also i would never dare sell my low mileage 3rd gen L98 for ugly looking dodge. Im sorry i dont care if it runs the same times in a 1/4 mile. I love my 3rd gen the way it is. Sometimes speed isnt everything to me. LOOKS is a important thing as well. I love to drive a car on a road that ppl will stare at. No one will stare at a Srt4. They look so boring and new with the rest of the new cars ((yawn)) I give Dodge credit tho for what they have done. They made it quick for a little car to compete with V8s. Still a Dodge though.

the l03 comment would apply if it is still a 305. sure can go fast but the potential isn't that great


as far as the axles for the l98. whats that going to do when you get those new axles but your rear end still breaks on the differential. that is what people are griping about. the actual third member itself is weak


maybe the 350 can be bought cheap. chances are still giong to need a rebuild though


th350 might be cheap enough by itself but if I remember right it isn't just a slap it in and call it good there is a little work you need to do. not everyone can do it themself or has the money to pay for it all

your entry level supercharger is that price including the internals of the motor to support it? have you ever tuned a carbed setup that was blown? I would venture to say it isn't easy


and btw a TTA is slower then a LS1 stock for stock
so what was wrong with that comment?

oh yeah I didn't think about the th350 and daily driven.

I have been there done that. it sucked. my 71 camaro was a th350 with 4.11's I was able to get a whopping 10mpg. on the freeway it sounded like the car wanted to blow up if I started doing much more then around 80mph or so.

sure th350 and some 2.73 gears or even 3.08's might be ok for daily driven car though. but that isn't very performance oriented with those gears

Different strokes for different folks.




/thread.

As for Pony Killer, go to the carb boards. I am almost 100% certain he drives a G-body. I may be wrong though.

As for the rest of this, I never claimed that a th350 with a stall makes a great daily driver. The argument was whether you could go fast with $3k. Please follow the debate more closely. In fact, I explicitly stated the setup wasn't good for economy. You're obviously interested in trying to be a smartass. I'm having a legit discussion. Stop acting like a 10 year old.

But comparing a car that is faster, that you can't really drive, compared to one that performs like stock, isn't much of an argument now is it?

I don't understand your reply to my L03 comment. If it is an L03, it is a 305.... Shoot, even if it's an L05, and he left it stock as an L05 and spent $3k, it wasn't spent on go-fast.

As for the L98 axles comment, I know the good old 9 bolt isn't bullet proof. The only reason I made the comment was that Shifty listed the rear axle as a disadvantage you have with a non-L98 car. And my point was that if you wanted to get an L98 axle for a non-L98 car, it's only like $150 if you're patient.

A kit to rebuild a 350 is not expensive either unless you're buying top dollar internals. That's simply a fact. This is SBC we're talking about. And as long as the motor compression tests ok, which most 87s and newer will, no reason to rebuild if it is indeed A BUDGET BUILD. Not recommending it, but only saying.

As for the work, you pretty much only have to modify your tranny crossmember and get a longer driveshaft. 82-84 3rd gens came with the TH-200 transmission. This has the correct length driveshaft for a TH-350, and as we all know, installing a driveshaft is painfully easy. I've done the opposite of this swap (gone from a TH-200/350 setup to a TH-700) in my Cutlass, and all I even had to do to get the tranny mount to work was grind off some of the support plate, and drill another hole for the mount. Maybe more difficult in a thirdgen, but nothing terrible. I'm not some genius, anyone else could do it (the swap) if they tried. Any decent shop will not charge that much for this. People make the biggest deal out of this for whatever reason, as the Olds boards told me this would be some expensive process as well. Maybe $15 for a tranny mount, and a shortened driveshaft (as I did the opposite swap and needed a shorter one) was $25 at my driveline shop. I don't have any connections either, I'm a poor college student.

You can run 6psi on stock internals if you're careful. If you do a little research about timing and tuning, you can get away with this on stock internals for a decent amount of time, especially if you get the right heads or have dished pistons. 89JYTurbo has run 6psi of TT on a stock L98 for well over a year. Low 12s, by the way, and about $3000. Lots of expert DIY on his setup, which is why I said roots blower instead of TT, as again, most can install a roots blower, and as long as you do research and pay attention setting it up, most can get a safe tune on there. Again, fine tuning isn't for the average Joe, especially when the danger of forced induction is present, but definitely not impossible. There's easily enough information on these boards for one to learn the basics.

I forget which auto magazine it was, but one of them recently had a showdown between the best of all 4 generations of Trans Ams. The TTA won the quartermile showdown over WS6 LS1. I have heard from many sources that TTAs will outrun stock LS1 f-bodys, probably autos if not 6 speeds. Feel free to post sources of a showdown between the two that proves otherwise, and I will gladly admit I was mistaken, as I'm not 100% anyways.

I'm not saying any of this is fuel efficient or reliable. You have to pay to play, and if you're going to play very long, you should expect to pay more. With that being said, even with a setup like one of these, if you play nicely with it, it can last longer than you think. And as was the original point of my setup post, you can play pretty well with $3k in a 3rd gen, even if it's not for very long. Not really trying to step on anyone's toes here, only legit discussion.

With the original $10k we were talking about instead of the $3k tangent I went off into, you can setup a street-driven friendly 3rdgen that would outperform the SRT-4. I wouldn't think many SRT-4s that you pick up for $3k are very driveable either.

I think I can safely skip all these long paragraphs and say:
Forced Induction = nice street manners
Naturally Aspirated = well, it's not my money.

actually shifty brought up the rear end itself not the axles

you talk about budget builds then start mentioning replacing the heads and pistons for boost? sure might not be that expensive in a way if you go with cheap used parts but that isn't really a great way now is it. not evryone is able to make that swap though either. same with the tranny. sure you might be able to but doesn't mean others can. and taking it to the shop ok you got it cheap. doesn't mean every shop is the same.


but see here is another thing why pay to play when you can have an efficient car with a warrenty already built then pay to have a car fixed up to go fast that isn't streetable, gets bad gas mileage, isn't going to be reliable (and end up costing a lot due to the budget build and reaplcing those parts)
myself I would rather have car tht moves and if it breaks I get it fixed then one that can't even really be driven on the street and needs worked on all the time

yeah the srt-4 might be more expensive overall but still in way I would say it's worth it.
you break a rod/piston whatever on your thirdgen you have to buy another one.
break a rod/piston/ whatever on your srt-4. hey guys I broke one under warrenty want to replace it. that alone can save quite a bit of money.

seen a few srts today running


most in the 14.3-4 range at 96-97mph

mild modded ones in the high thirteens

my exhaust (headers and catback) and gutted air intake L98 with 3.27 gears went 13.98 at 100.87mph on a 1.93 60 foot

mild L98 versus srt 4 would be close drivers race with advantage L98 after 90mph i think with aero advantage

i ran a truck from a 60mph roll today that traps a best of 99 in the cold.. i held dead even and creeped past him at 90mph. so a srt would be about the same

I can't believe some of you on this board..WOW...I wouldn't be caught dead in a SRT Neon...I can be a cheap a$$ and put a turbo on a pice of **** and you know what I have...a fast piece of ****.....I admire Dodge for what they have done....at least they are trying to provide the public with affordable performance but how can you compare a Neon to a 3rd gen...let me put a turbo on my 350 and see what happens...4 bangers are for kids.....there is no replacement for displacement.....if I get beat by a Neon...I'll mod my car....but the guy who beat me is still driving a Neon...


350Z

the no replacement for displacement argument nice

how creative and thoughtfull. must of took you some time to come up with that right


so once again since there is NO REPLACEMENT FOR DISPLACEMENT as you say answer this question

two cars both the same except for whats listed below
car a: 350 N/A
car b: 302 with boost


now the fun part
car a says no replacement for dispalcement so he adds boost to his car and then puts out the yeah then we will see who is faster

car b says no replacement for boost so he makes his car a 350 and keeps the boost

who wins and who is right?
the guy who says no replacement for dispalcement or the guy who says no replacement for boost?


there is more to going fast then displacement. look at many cars out there with small motors going very fast. bikes for one.

whats your arguement there? well lets make my car 400lbs and we will see who is quicker then?

the point being though you would of still lost.

so end of that arguement is your a loser

the srt 4 is a well made car.. strong motor and drive train and the interior and stereo are nice too. not a bad bargain for 20K or so.

still, i think the new generation neons are ugly. give me a 98 neon with that motor and i'll be happy

Well considering he's my friend off of this board I know he drives an 86 Camaro lol

Unless, like I said, there are 2 pony killers on this board.

Also I'm not trying to be a smartass but you still don't get the idea/point on why someone would want a new car. Sure the kid's Iroc is paid for and that's great but what if that's his daily driver? What if doing all that work isn't feasible? What if he doesn't want a super fast car AND another daily driver. Sorry but I sure as hell wouldn't want to be stuck driving a carbed car with a TH350, some big stall and a rear end that will eventually break(unless you spend big $$ on a 9'' or 12 bolt).

Yeah, but I bet you'll never put a turbo on your car now will you?

Cheap *** and turbo in the same sentence? I think we've got a live one here!

WOW....didn't want to spend all night on the 'puter defending the SB Chevy...but my point is 4 bangers will always be inferior to the 8 banger when HP and making cars go fast is concerned....there is a reason why Top Fuel Drag cars are V8's....I respect the turbo cars....I really do....

....ah STU....talking out of ur butt I see.....I guess I'm never gonna put a turbo in my car....thanks for letting me know that ....I know I don't have the fastest car in the world but I have no fear against SRT Neons with my old '89 SLOROC.....they'll have to have some hefty mods to beat my sleeper.....and when 400+ HP is no longer enough....I'll step it up.....and you know what?....the Neon will still be a Neon........you guys are amazing....isn't there a 4bangers.com on the net for you fart can lovers?

350Z...wish I had a Cobalt SS

Why don't top fuel dragsters have V12's? Why don't YOU have a V12?

so you drive a top fuel dragster now?
oh wait if you don't then why are you comparing a v8 to a top fuel dragster.
thos things have NOTHING in common with a v8 that you drive other then they have 8 cylinders. that's it
and if displacement was king why not use a v12 for a top fuel dragster? or maybe there is something else somewhere.
and why don't you have a top fuel motor in your car? you seem to want to compare your motor with one so I'm taking it you either have one or want to put one in your car right?
but either way your car has nothing in common with a top fuel dragster so your argument there is VERY weak.

Quote:
....ah STU....talking out of ur butt I see.....I guess I'm never gonna put a turbo in my car....thanks for letting me know that ....I know I don't have the fastest car in the world but I have no fear against SRT Neons with my old '89 SLOROC.....they'll have to have some hefty mods to beat my sleeper.....and when 400+ HP is no longer enough....I'll step it up.....and you know what?....the Neon will still be a Neon........you guys are amazing....isn't there a 4bangers.com on the net for you fart can lovers?

350Z...wish I had a Cobalt SS

I smell r<x>icer attitude with what mods are you pulling 400+hp. have you had a dyno done to it? what about the 1/4 what do you run there?

Just because it's a V12 doesn't mean that it has a larger displacement than a V8.

I suppose that's true, but it'd be more fuel efficient.





I couldn't wait all night for someone to correct me on this, so I just did it myself.

You know it's not good to have a full conversation with yourself.

You guys are bashing this kid that wants to race a SRT again now that his car is tuned....how do you know he has no chance...he's got decent mods...you make it sound like the SRT Neon is impossible to beat....WTF from a power potential standpoint there is NO comparison between a 4 banger and a V8...and did I say I was gonna put a Top Fuel motor in my car?

RX-7 how did you get the impression that I was gonna put a Top Fuel motor in my car....WTF is wrong with you are you 12?? I was just stating a point....the fastest cars in the world (1/4) use V-8s with forced induction.....and if you have to know every little detail here is my sig....yes my car can blow the doors off of most turbo 4 bangers...the sig is old my SB has a larger cam and better tuning now....oh yeah your right I hate ricers...ricers who are all show no go...I already said I respect the 4 cyl guys that really do have a fast car....I think the kid who started this post should race the Dodge again....I think he has a chance of winning....and if not he has a better car to build......


350Z

It'll be a driver's race.

The only thing I "bashed" him on is the fact that he was calling the car/owner a *****. Whatever.

flygta.....hey man thats a nice car....those wheels look good with the color of your Z....

Thanks

That's what I was hoping for. A lot of people still haven't picked up on the fact they're Mustang Bullet knockoffs

What kind of times do you run POS350Z?

sorry about my grammer but you can go f uck yourself! understand that. i dont think their was any reason for you to open your mouth. if you dont like the post then dont read it dumb ***. keep your mouth shut i asked a question in a fourum and this is what you say. im sure you have said more dumb **** in your life then youknow. here on this post for exp. do you just have alot of time on your hands cause for someone who hates these posts you sure like to respond like a d ick, get laid puss y boy. now go spend time looking for something else to look like a d ick head for and if you moderators have a problem with this post then let me know

Oooooooook.

All because I said you were wrong for calling a SRT-4 a "*****"

Whatever, go take the tampon out of your ***. I think you're the one that needs to get laid.

..also where did I say I "hated" these posts? I think that was someone else.

I think he had a very valid point in calling out your spelling and grammar. You know there are free programs you can download the help with that..

*** I can't believe the level of idiocy that this thread has attained.

and its all my fault. haha , i love it. all this bickering, both cars can be nice looking, both can be quick. its all to personal choice, like others have said i'll be able to have a way more streetable 13 second car then if i were to build up the iroc. sure i could totally make it into an 8 second car if i wanted where as the SRT would need a make over before getting there. do i really want that as a daily driver? hell no, im fune with putting a few add ons on the neons, if i go nuts hit 12s and still have a very drivable car. imagine a 12 second front wheel drive car compared to rear wheel. yeah you ge the idea, new england gets its fair share of snow so i'll take front wheel . have a nice day

Yeah but don't you live in NJ? Or did you move?

new england is what they refer to as the north east, i think you are just kidding tho. but yeah still in jersey

NJ isn't in New England...please don't ever disrespect my home state by calling it part of New England

In fact, most exotics that have v12s are very small cubic inches for the number of cyl. But *** do they rev. V12 hitting 9k

V8s aren't the fastest cars on the street. AWD stick cars with a good power/weight ratio are.

notice that I said third gen. an srt-4 will beat almost all thirgen f bodies except the tta, firehawk and a few really well maintained l98 g92 cars from 91-92. I also wasnt saying that an srt-4 will take a tta, I was saying its going to take a tta to beat an srt-4.

so i ask a question on the board and this is the **** i catch for it? well its good to see that some of you have respect to answwer, or not sayanything if you dont like the subject, thanks to those who answerd like normal. the rest of you can suck my dick. this is why people dont come to this site. dicks like some of you have to say something that is of no concern to he post... www.rochesterfbodyclub.net aleast these guys have respect

this thread is getting retarded. the point is, the third gen is a cool car...we all love them. but they dont make them anymore so if you want a new car, a good, cheap, fast car is the srt-4. dont hate on it because its faster than your thirdgen was when it was stock. If someone wants one for a DD, its their money, let them do what they want. I'd buy one if I had the money because I've driven one and I loved it.

you got pissed cause you lost to a fast car. then you said you raced knowing that your car was only running at 75% of its ability. what did you expect?

I'm not knocking your car, I love thirdgens, but when you think that the srt-4 is a crap car, your ignorance shows.

local car clubs are always going to be more respectful because most of the time, they all hang out on a regualr basis. this is a huge site with very opinionated members. a lot of them are still stuck in the "if its not a third gen, its crap" phase. if you're lucky, you'll pull through it and realize that there are a ton of cars out there that are cool in their own right.

This thread is full of