We made our first dyno pull today during my lunch hour. I snuck out a little early and finished installing the oil pump and oil pan. I'm sure I looked kinda funny to some some of Jeff's customers working in the dyno room in chinos and a polo.
Anyway, the oil pressure issue is resolved and we made one pull just to verify that everything was cool. This is with the initial tune, overly safe - a rich A/F ratio and minimal timing, and we only took it to 6000 rpm, I'll set the rev limiter at 7000 again, but we'll probably take it up to 7500 later today when I go back and we start tuning it.

This is all on pump gas, no tuning, with less than 10 psi of boost:

RPM........TQ.........HP
4100......757.9.....591.7
4200......759.7.....607.5
4300......757.1.....619.9
4400......755.6.....633.0
4500......757.9.....649.4
4600......773.2.....677.2
4700......789.4.....706.4
4800......801.5.....732.5
4900......822.5.....767.4
5000......843.5.....803.0
5100......859.3.....834.4
5200......871.4.....862.8
5300......873.5.....881.5
5400......878.0.....902.7
5500......888.5.....930.5
5600......905.5.....965.5
5700......904.0.....981.1
5800......910.0.....1005.0
5900......917.4.....1030.6
6000......922.3.....1053.7

As you can see, torque was still climbing at 6000 rpm when we stopped the dyno run, and horsepower was still climbing almost 30hp every 100 rpm, so there's still alot left in it, just the way it's tuned if we ran it up to 7000rpm or more. We're going to lean out some of the fuel map and add a couple degrees of timing. The way it looks, I could probably get somewhere around 1000-1050 ft lbs, and around 1300hp with tuning and a little more boost, and taking it all the way up to 7000 rpm or so - maybe more.

I'm going back to Fast Times today at 3:30 and we'll start tuning and turning up the boost controller. Right now boost is set at it's minimum setting, which is 9.8 psi

 

Oh my g0d! That is a hell of an engine you put together. That is the most evil street engine I have actually seen dyno numbers for. You're in Lingenfelter & Trapanier territory now. Keep up the good work.

 

Nice numbers, Monty. Hope to see numbers like that for my project when its finished. I quess you will have to work on that rearend next. Keep us posted.:hail:

 

I've been waiting since your first post about the dyno results. That is incredible. Can't wait to see what it has in it after tuning.

Was it the pump that was causing troubles?

 

I think I just soiled myself.

What's this motor going into? And what's it going to be used for?

 

Congratulations man, thats a hell of an engine. What was it that caused the oil pressure problem?

 

Im interested in what compression ratio you have for that motor. 8.5:1?

-c

 

Thanks for the compliments and congratulations, it really has been a challenging, drawn out project. There were certainly times when I thought it was a waste of time and effort, but now I'm pretty excited.
The neat thing about it is that it really is "mild", the fuel ratio is on the safe side and the timing is conservative. Jeff and Mark at Fast Times said it's got 1400hp in it, but I'm skeptical about that, becuase Precision only rates each of the PT-52's for 600 hp. We still haven't even touched the boost controller. It's on the minimum setting, relying in the spring in the wastegates only. Curiously, the wastegates only have 10 pound springs, and we amxed out a 2 Bar MAP sensor, 15 psi. It's probably making about 17-18 lbs, we guess, with no signs of detonation. Jeff thought the plugs looked awesome, reinforcing his opinion that there's alot more left in the engine, and that it's a very conservative, safe tune.

We only ran it on the dyno 3 more times. I got there at 3:30 and we weren't able to start dynoing it until after 5:00 because Jeff was so busy. I felt guilty keeping him longer because he was at the shop until 10:00pm last night and he had alot of work left to do today before he left.

We only spun it up to 6600 rpm on the last run, and it made 1151hp at 6600rpm, and still climbing more than 10hp/100rpm, and peak torque was 970 at 6000rpm. It's probably a 1200hp motor at 7000 rpm with the current tune, and we weren't even pushing it hard. It only has 23.5 degrees of timing and it's still on the rich, safe side. I could probably get 1300 hp if we pushed it, added some more timing and leaned it out, but since it's a street car I want it to be reliable on pump gas in any weather. Needless to say, I think turbos are friggin' COOL! My intake air temp was only 126F with nothing more than a little fan going over the intercooler.

We tried to start the dyno run at a lower rpm but the dyno wouldn't hold it, the engine makes too much torque at low rpms for the dyno's "brake" to hold it. I think that's kinda cool too!

RPM....TQ......HP
4100...771.1...602.0
4200...768.5...614.6
4300...770.8...631.1
4400...777.7...651.5
4500...778.9...667.4
4600...788.4...690.5
4700...803.2...718.8
4800...821.7...751.0
4900...850.0...793.0
5000...874.8...832.8
5100...883.3...857.7
5200...901.7...892.8
5300...903.5...911.8
5400...927.2...953.3
5500...926.4...970.1
5600...945.3...1007.9
5700...946.6...1027.3
5800...960.4...1060.6
5900...963.2...1082.0
6000...970.2...1108.4
6100...964.2...1119.9
6200...956.0...1128.6
6300...952.6...1142.7
6400...937.2...1142.1
6500...922.7...1142.0
6600...916.1...1151.2

We just dyno'd with 93 octane pump gas, I was tempted to ask Jeff to fill the tank with some race gas but it was getting late and I could tell he was tired and had more work left to do before he went home. I plan to keep it traction limited by sticking with street tires, something like Michelin Pilots. Hopefully, that will allow me to maintain the IRS, albiet upgraded with better parts.

I wish we could have gotten the dyno runs down to 3000 rpm or so, that's where Precision said it would start making significant boost, but as I mentioned the dyno wouldn't hold the torque below about 4000.

It's 8.5:1 compression.It's going into an '82 Corvette, it's just a street car.

The oil pressure issue turned out to be just a need to give the pressure adjsutment on the pump a couple of turns, and swap the .200" restrictors (front and rear) for .080" restrictors.

 

8.5:1! I guessed it! woo!

I should say something like, "what, only 970 ft/lbs @6,000? Im not impressed until you hit 1K!" but i don't think i would be fooling anyone.

This is going in a street car? You are my hero. The fact that this was somehow done on street gas scares the crap out of me. This is such an awesome project.

Please keep us posted on everything!

 

A street car?! I bow to you my friend, you are my hero. :hail:

Dare I ask how much you've got in that engine?

 

Street car? Any weather? Monty, I challenge you to a race in my 305 IROC. I name the time and place as I am at a dissadvantage. We will race for the sum of $1,000,000 and the race will be the uphill snow challenge. First to the top wins. And yes, I will take a cheque. :sillylol:

Also, any chance of some videos of this thing on the street when it's finished?

Regards

Rob

 

Congrats!! You've accomplished what I've been dreaming of. Now you can shove that into any sport compact enthusiasts face ... take their 'go fast' formula (Motor Swap + Turbo = Domestic Killer) and apply it to a domestic!!! Freaking 1000 hp UNTUNED on pump gas in a street legal car. INSANE!!! Watch out when you take that thing out on the streets man ... that much torque is hard to control!!

 

Nice meeting you today monty and it really was a site to see that beast on the dyno

 

Any chance of getting a video of a dyno pull? Congrats on finally getting the engine going

 

how much has this cost u to do? i was planning on doing a 427sbc but decided to do the 406.. now u r making me feel bad for not doing the 427.

 

As for cost, I'm embarrassed to say about $35k, however, it could probably be built for around half that with different parts, and not lose much if any power. I still beleive that cylinder heads are significantly important on a forced induction engine, and the Dart CNC 18* heads flow 378cfm. But things like Jesel roller lifters and the Jesel timing belt are significant investments that aren't worth much in terms of power, just the "trick" factor. Also, the Hogan's sheetmetal manifold is unecessary, and they're not cheap either. So it's easy to see how it could be done for alot less, but I've been working on this motor for 2 years so it's kind of taken a life of it's own. Now it needs to get a job. Anyone want to race?

RMK,

You caught me, when I said "any weather" I was thinking more in terms of hot, humid summer days. I don't think I'll be driving this thing when the ground is wet...

I took some .megs of it on the dyno, I'll get them and the dyno sheets up tonight.

Jimmy,

It was nice meeting you as well. Sorry about you having to wait out front, and then that thing at the end. Needlesss to say, things were kind of chaotic, and the guys at FTM were very busy. I can't wait to hear how your current project turns out.

AZiroc, I don't think it really matters, nothing a pound or two of boost can't compensate for. Honestly, the only reason I built it out to a 427 was that it's a nice number that rolls off your tongue, and the fact that I can say it's a 427 and people will think it's a big block, when it's actually an SBC.

 

No big deal really.....2 man shop and lots of customers doesn't make things easy with 4 people roaming the shop while you're trying to work

 

What intercooler are you running? it looks nice and big.

 

It's custom intercooler, based off of a Spearco/Turbonetics core Part number 2-182, rated at 1000hp or 1500 cfm at .5 psi pressure drop. The core measures 16"W x 20"H x 3.5"D.

 

thats a jaw dropper, Obi Wan ....i mean Monty. you say it needs a job huh, well check out the movies this guy has of his supra ( WalserRZ.com) i would pay money to see what would happen if he tried to pull your car from a roll. on his videos he races everybody from a roll. which i feel is unfair if you've got a turbo i think he even walks away from a GSX-R 1300
you'll se what i mean

the popularity of turbo's seems to be growing more and more

 

I've seen the videos of SWs car before, very impressive. Single turbod Supras are pretty impressive and the reason they race from a roll is because of the horrendous lag they have. My money would be on the full Monty though.

 

:hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail: :hail:

 

with that much torque you could pull a sick ***** out of bed

 

Single turbo Supras ARE impressive.

The ones that race from a roll just happen to be on the freeway at the time! Who hasn't done that? I love pulling from people at a 60mph punch! I also love pulling 20psi holeshots from a DEAD STOP.

"Lag" is a misused term. If you have "lag", grab a lower gear. Duh.

I run a 4000rpm stall converter. I have no lag. Considering my Supra is shifted at 8200rpm, and the turbo reaches a full 35psi of boost before 5500rpm, There is PLENTY of oomph to play with. As far as under-4000rpm performance is concerned...who the hell races under 4000rpm?

Ever see an 8-second GN launch off a transbrake? Lag, schmag!

Sound Performance recently put down 1040rwhp with a street-driven Supra. Air conditioning, stereo, full weight, UNPORTED head. Combo is good for 8's, as the Titan Motorsports 6-speed car w/900rwhp recently ran 9.00 ET's at the NHRA event...on BFG Drag Radials!!! You should check the video out at Supraforums.com when you can. It cuts a mean 60' time.

Monty's Corvette is VERY impressive! Given the fact that it is a street car (assume heavy), and runs the stock IRS rearend, he can expect 8-second ET's himself with a good launch. Stand back, though. I have a feeling that the ol' horse buggy suspension/differential in the rear ain't gonna like those launches!! Zoinks!

Can't wait to see that bad-boy hit the Chitown streets, Monty. Again, VERY impressive, my friend!

 

I knew I'd get a response from you when I wrote that :sillylol:

I've seen videos of some of the SP cars runs and they are amazing. How much $$$ do these upgrades cost for these cars?

Robert

 

Neat videos of that Supra driver.
"All videos filmed on a test track in Mexico." HAHAHAHA! Yeah, right.

Although, it was nice to see him get pasted by that C4 'vette a couple times!

 

It depends. There are SO many combos, brands, options, etc. It just depends on how fast you want to go, just like any other car.

You can run low 11's on stock turbos and factory ECM. People have run 10's with nitrous on top of that...

As an example, my turbo kit cost me roughly $3500. It is large enough to power the car to 9-second ET's on nuts. Faster with spray. Very streetable. However, add my $1200 front-mount (traded for my AR15), big fuel system, stand-alone management, etc., and it will add up fast. I would guess by the time I am done with the engine, head, etc., I will have invested near $12,000 on top of the car's price, which I paid $20,000. Not too bad, really. I had about $15,000 total in my 10-second Formula, and it would have cost me another $15,000 to get it where my Supra will be...

 

GMI FAST thank you for the lesson, i'm not ******* supras or anything like . i just never considered racing from a 70mph roll .... i dunno.... accurate?
none the less turbos are cool and efficient ,and fast is fast

 

Well, remember, most of the 800+hp Supras seen in the videos racing from a roll are running on 18" radials. They are capable of smoking the tires at 70+mph when the boost comes on! What is more "accurate"? Flooring it after three "honks" from a roll and MAYBE getting traction, or smoking your $230-a-piece Michelins down to the cords from a dead stop? At least from a roll you won't hear: "I smoked my tires. I would have beat you..."

I have a hell of a time racing from a dead stop with anything less than ET Streets. If you get traction from a dead stop with 18" tires, you AIN'T FAST!

All the fast 10 and 9-second street Supras in Chicago run stickies on the rear and race from a dead stop. They also spray right out of the hole. "Insta-boost".

Not that there are any fast Supras out here...

 

nope, all garbage

 

i never said there werent any fast spras out there
how do you keep from hitting the guy next to you with your half shafts? whats the fastes a supra can run before a rear end upgrade is needed???
the spray makes up for lag right.

 

i dunno , thats wild as hell as to how such a small motor can make that much power. do you have any worthy rotary competion for the supras in chitown? those are also volumteric efficency wonder too :hail:

 

My g/f likes Supras but I prefer an Evo

 

The boost does that......a boosted motor is almost always over 100% VE

 

Never have problems with halfshafts. This ain't no Vette! If something breaks, the assembly does not fly apart.

The record on a stock Supra IRS rear is 8.98 without trouble.

Spray eliminates lag completely.

 

No RX7's are even close to giving us competition in Chicago. There are some fast ones elsewhere, but they are few...

 

Sorry to pull this back OT, but...........

Monty,

You had started a Great thread on Cam for Turbo's what did you end up deciding on your motor? (smells good to me)

have you had the chance to measure your Exh presure? I would be curious to know what it is in relationship to your Int pressure.

are you going to put a 3 bar map in it or keep the boost down below 3 bar?

& lastly, what Turbos did you end up with (how large are they 80mm or so?)?

BW

 

they are little 60mm turbos

4" inlet and 2" discharge

My friend put a pair of 60mm hifi wheels (flows about 90% of the normal 60-1) into a smaller .50a/r housing and not the .60a/r housing that they usually come in

with small .58 exhaust housings at 24.3psi the motor made 980hp on Slo....errr...Fast Times dyno

 

Bobalos,

I ended up going with a custom Comp solid roller using their Xtreme Energy Street Roller lobes, 254/254, 115 LSA.

I haven't measured the exhaust pressure yet. I have a Datamaster on order that I will use to measure EGT's at each primary, preintercooler and post intercooler temps, as well as pressure at the collector, among other things.

We just used a 2-bar MAP sensor. I have a 3-bar, but for street use the 2-bar will provide better resolution and possibly better drivability. I would only end up using about half of the 3-bar's resolution anyway. However, we maxed out the 2-bar at about 5800rpm, after that it flatlined at 15psi, although we know it made more by the time it reached 7000. We estimate it wasmaking somewhere around 18 psi, but we don't really know. Regardless, it ran well and didn't detonate. I'm going to install 5 # springs in the wastegates and use the boost controller to increase boost past that. I'm currently running 10# springs, and we never even opened up the boost controller. I talked to PTE today and they said that's not uncommon. Jeff at Fast Times, as well as Patrick at PTE confirmed that the boost controller is plumbed correctly.

As Jimmy stated, the compressors are 60-1's.

Jimmy, that was a cheap shot, LOL! Next time you see Tony, tell him I said hello. He did great work at FTM, and I'm sure he will continue to do so. He helped me out a couple of times while he was at FTM.

 

GMI FAST: 8.98 on half shafts is pretty damn stout. i should've firgured being a toyota( try straightening a tacoma 4x4 frame) no rotary's present ... there a couple of supras that run good numbers in tampa



MONTY or ANYONE ELSE ( at this point its odvious your all pretty good with turdbo's and blowers)
having that 115 LSA . is it more beneficial for "boosted" motor to use a cam shaft with a broader LSA.
the larger theLSA means that the exh. valve is still closing as the int. is opennig right? my friend explained to me that N/A motor will make greater power with shorter LSA ex. 106 (thats what he had) granted a rougher idle as well .


also what should be considered before thinking of ...say putting a blower on you car. i allways figured i had to much compression for a super charger with a signifcant amount of boost. plus i do not have forged pistons is this a major NO NO with blowers and turbo's ?
i am not wise in the dept. of installing hair care appliances on my car.

 

I found it a little ironic that you said this. I think the most impressive thing about Monty's dyno pull is the awesome numbers from the low RPM's. Who races under 4,000 RPM? Well everyone does my friend!! You can have a 4,000 Stall from the line and launch on boost, you can even spray when you shift to get up to 4,000 RPM as fast as possible .... the bottom line is, every shift you make you're gonna start under 4,000 RPM. So why do I find it ironic that you said this? Well I think the only chance domesitcs will ever have racing these 9 and 10 second highly modified Supras on the streets is the displacement factor, and that means more power at the low RPM's. Big displacement engines will never wind up as high as the newer tech engines, so we cant compete on the higher RPM level. Its all about the insane numbers from the low RPM's. I'll even go as far to say, forget about the peak TQ/HP numbers, check out how insane that curve is!!!

Nothing personal against you or any Supra owners in general, but over a year ago I started planning a project Supra Killer. Why a Supra Killer? Well because they are the biggest baddest imports on the US streets today. Don't take it personal, but when dealing with Supra owners in general, I get this 'I'm better than you' feeling. I'm not saying you are like that, heck maybe I feel that way because I'm jealeous you can make so much raw power ... but reading through the Supra community thats how I feel. Don't get me wrong, I find it amazing that so much power can be pumped out of those 3.0ltr inline 6's, it gives me alot of hope for what is possible with a big displacement engine; I know its possible to built a faster street car. Looks like Monty was way ahead of me on his project, and he has really given me hope.

Even though we dont have a graph to represent, when I built my own chart of Monty's dyno numbers and compared it to some dyno graphs from very highly modded Supras (HKS, Walserrz, and more), the difference in the lower RPM is what will make the race. I mean look at it, its just scary!! And still untuned!! Over 800 ft/lbs and 800 hp @ 5000 RPM .... he's gone already man!!! Even when Walserrz sprays, on the dyno paper, it looks like he has no chance. The actual outcome might be different though depending on weight, driver ability, and transmition ratio's.

I have to admit though, Monty is a very very crazy man!! When I started thinking about highly modified turbocharged v8's I was thinking a max of 800 ft/lbs and 800 hp and I thought I was crazy. Monty is pulling those numbers @ 4800 RPM!!! Its insane!!! My project plans are quite different than Monty's, my numbers will be nowhere near as impressive, but hopefully I'll still be in his league. I'm a firm believer that less weight is the key to better handling and being fast. If there is one thing I've learned from the sport compact community, its that weight matters alot. So my project concentrates more on being light than producing power. So far I've gotten my plan under 2900 pounds on paper. How much it will actually weigh is still unknown, but its gonna be a hell of alot lighter than the average domestic. I'm planning power levels around 600 TQ/HP on a single turbo 360ci ARE built LS1. Still an insane ammount of power but nowhere near Monty. I'm banking that lower weight will make the difference. I believe that if LS1 Motorsports can make a 3800 pound 4th gen with around 700 RW TQ/HP run in the 9's, very low ET's are possible with less power and only 2900 pounds. But Still, the general idea of more power at lower RPM's is what makes it a Supra Killer.

So don't underestimate the power @ a lower RPM. Turbocharged domestics are new on the scene, but they will start becomming more common. And the difference will be at the lower RPM's. So get those bottles filled, its gonna be the only way to keep up

(i'm starting the **** talking aready!!! sorry couldnt help it heheh)

 

Cool, thanks. What kind of lift on your cam (@ the valve)? you are running 1.6's & 1.7's or something to that affect are you not?


VERY NICE

BW

 

QuickL98,

I spent quite a bit of time researching cam specs - including several conversations with the guys at Fast Times, Precision Turbo, Comp cams, and several guys who run turbo cars on the street, plus the books like "Maximum Boost" and "Turbochargers". Almost everyone had a different opinion. Most people recommended mild durations, like in the 230's with moderate lift, while the guys at Fast Times recommended more duration since I was running 427ci's. Almost everyone recommended short overlaps.

I decided to go with 254/254 degrees of duration at .050", and quite healthy lift, .661"/.621" with 1.7 Intake/1.6 sExhaust shaft rockers, and the 115 LSA. Despite the relatively wide duration, the 115 LSA, minimizes overlap, so it's kinda like having your cake and eatin' too. The reason I chose to ignore many people's recommendation to keep duration small, is that despite the ue of forced induction, I'm running more CI's than most, and Ci's need duration in order to "breath".

I'm not saying my setup is the optimum combination of parts and specs, but considering the power it made on a mild tune of only 23.5 degrees of timing and a safe, rich mixture, while on 93 octane pump gas, I'm happy with it. The guys at Fast Times think there's a solid 1300hp/1000tq in it, but I was happy with the results and since it's a street engine, I wanted to stay on the safe side.

It's funny, but in the last few days I've gotten lot's of emails, mostly congratulating me and/or asking questions about specific components or specs. However, I've gotten a couple of emails, all from IMPORT owners, questionsing my results, some saying I am lying about using 93 octane pump gas. If anyone doubts my results, feel free to call Jeff or Mark at Fast Times Motorworks.

As already mentioned, there are MANY V8 turbo projects in the works and it's just the beginning. I would not be surprised to see someone smarter than me make a 1500hp pump gas dyno before the end of summer. There are alot of cool projects out there.

 

Huh? Every time I shift, the tach never falls beneath 5800rpm!

As far as V8 performance is concerned, you act as if I am not familiar with it. Please check sig...

 

I saw that too. You own both. So what are your thoughts?? BTW, didnt know you never reached below 5800 rpm in the supra, thats pretty cool. :hail:

 

That much power is cool and all, but you have to be able to get it all to the ground without frying tires. That's going to be the big trick, especially on street tires. Learning to drive that car is going to be an adventure. I just hope you get it down before you launch the main webs out the bottom.

35 PSI

What did you have done to the heads/block to seal that kind of firing pressure? We have slight durability issues running copper gaskets on around 20 psi. Are you running race gas or meth to keep the detonation at bay? Did you say you have over $30K invested in that Supra?

 

Block surface is stock.
Head gasket is stock.
Head bolts are stock new replacements.

93 octane is used up to 20psi.
VP C16 is used up to 35-40psi.

I have $30,000 invested, including the $20K for the car...

 

oh, its all in good fun

i actually saw him yesterday, told him you said hi. He told me that he should be able to get to my stuff soon since a lot of the racers motors are about done.....which i understand. Im not competing in anything and dont need it RIGHT NOW, so i understand

Let me know when you plan to put the motor in the car, i'd love to help ya. i'm not far away

 

Jimmy,

I'm going to reinstall it tomorrow. I've got to repalce the oil pan gasket first, we went through my spares since I had to pull the pan twice, and the last one was messed up. So jeff ordered me a couple more. Unfortunately, due to the spread pan rails of the Rocket blocks, you can't just go to your local auto parts store and pick one up.

You're welcome to come by if you'd like, I'm by Touhy and Greenwood in Park Ridge, email me and I'll give you the address if you'd like.

 

Congrats, that's a lot of HP on pump gas. Motor looks like a
friend of mine's.