white91bird

i bought the car with the 1/4 panel looking worse...i shaped it a little before but now i wanna fix it a little better before i get it painted, i dont expect it to turn out perfect just not be too pathatic at a glance if you wanna draw any guidelines on to the pics, please do

here is the good side

white91bird

bad side 1

white91bird

bad side 2

white91bird

bad side 3

white91bird

im gonna sand what i have now and shape it more of course
last pic

Stevo

iTrader: (45)

ditch the bondo and start welding if u wanna do it right and have it last...

white91bird

dont know how to weld and 3 local body shops said $2000 to $3000

Mr Badwrench

You could hang new quarter panels cheaper then that. Don't fill that with plastic, it will just rott out again. Find another body shop and ask how much to replace the quarter panel.

1989karr

can't really see what you got there is it rust or dents?

83_Camaro_83

Do the impossible


**suspence music**
Quarter pannel swap

I think "TomP" is attempting it, I seen a thread a while ago.

it would require some welding....but if i can learn...you can too

good luck dude

Black85sport

you are going to regret putting bondo on that car

82knightrider

iTrader: (1)

I have some damage too

https://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/sho...ody+shop+quote

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

You can add all the bondo you want. 3 months after you paint the car, it's going to pucker, bubble, crack and fall off, then you've got an even bigger mess to deal with, and whatever money you spent on a half assed paint job will be totally wasted.

DJP87Z28

You do not have to replace whole rear quarters, just weld in new metal where the rust is. Should be less then $500 per side complete.

firebirdjosh

iTrader: (1)

You suck at using bondo then.

Jim85IROC

iTrader: (2)

You can't honestly tell me that you spackle that crap right over rust and expect it to last do you?

firebirdjosh

iTrader: (1)

Yikes, my mistake, I was implying IF he grinds off the rust. You are 100% correct.

stalin05

I just got done doing this. I was switching from 88 GFX to 91-92 GFX and when i took off my 1/4 GFX to see under it, only small amounts of rust was holding it on.
1. Get a zip saw and cut out all the rust and then grind it down. 2.Then rent or buy a welder
3.Practice a few times
4.Weld on some sheet metal
5.Grind smooth
6.Buy some Fiberglass bondo and grind smooth
7.Then finally bondo and sand smooth.

Steps 8-10 Take pics

85f-bird

so does everyone on here understand that bondo isn't to be used to "build" a panel, but simply to gradually fill it in. IF you think that using bondo to make curves, or essentially build a whole panel, that it will crack, and months after oding it, or maybe years, you'll be back doing it all over again? That is not the purpose of bondo, and that's exactly why it has a bad name.

crazycrocket

85 f-bird this is true. Alot of people hear bondo and think rag behind a rust hole bondo. They don't understand that small dents are easily filled (not saying don't pull out your dents, but small ones) bondo should only be 1/8th inch thick at the max. However you can easily get away with going up to 1/4 inch thick if you do it properly. (If you dont believe me, you shoulda seen the guy who has taught me most of what I know about body work's old beetle. He repaired about 20 years or so ago with an old carbon arch welder, filled in the metal distortion with bondo, in some places it went past 1/4 inch thick and it still did not come off except where the vehical was hit)

In any case Bondo is not metal, it never will be, for where your rust is I can almost garuntee your rear wheel well lip is screwed up, get the new quarters put on and be done with it for eternity.

PS Quarters are cheap, I picked both my new ones up for 250 bucks canadian.

white91bird

i see what you guys mean
the problem is i cant afford to have qaurters put on. like i said i went to 3 diff shops and the wanted 2000 to 3000 to put one on, as a matter of fact i already have a quarter panel in my basement ready to go
also, no i can not weld

stalin05

Practice if you want, or take a class at a local community college on welding.

1989karr

Those are my thought on bondo too. Get the panel as straight as possible, and put a light skim of bondo on it

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

Any Voca schools in your area? They will usually do the work for little or free, provided you give them the parts.

85f-bird

i share the those thoughts. A friend of mine went to a tech school in st. louis, the cars they worked on were cars of friends, and their own, depending on how extensive the work was. Normally, for a small fee, and the price of the parts (unless you already have them) they'll take care of your rust, tach on new quarters, smooth the seams, and even slap paint on the rear half, or the whole car. If you can get the 1/4's from the yard, or atleast part of the 1/4's (the part that's rusted out) and have them put that piece on, sand, primer, sand, paint, they might be able to do your entire car for under 1k....depending of course, but it'll be done the right way.

fattdaddy

Are you an auto body tech? just wondered because you talk like you know what your talking about but you do not! First off "Bondo" a brand of filler is very cheap and poress and thats why it has a bad name, next if you cut out all the visable rust then use a product by Mar-hyde called One-Step it's a rust converter which stops the rust for coming back then use a product I like by Evercoat called Tiger Hair it is a polyester filler fortified with long fiberglass strands. Can be used with or without fiberglass cloth or mat. Bridges gaps in non-structural metal or fiberglass panels. Highly resistant to moisture absorption. Use this to build the area that was cut out from rust, this stuff is great if the whole car rusts and falls apart the area you made out of this stuff will remain. Then cover the whole area with a light weight filler (not Bondo) but a good brand like evercoat which is alot easier to sand to a smooth base. then it is ready to prime! Now I agree the hanging ne quarter panels is best but some don't have the availablity and skill to do this and you still have to grind down the weld and use filler to smooth it out! Ether way it's alot of work so good luck!

85f-bird

am i an auto body man, no, am i a tech, no, do i offically work on body work, with the exception of the ocassional sand job, i don't, nuff said....

As you said at the very end of your post however, both methods will tkae much work if done, and done right, so how you do it is up to you. But, a person who doesn't have experience with welding nor the tools to complete the project, probably doesn't have the experience to go through the cut, fill, sand smooth, fill, prime, paint, etc....either will take time to do right.

and adding bondo over rust is a no - no

adding a nice filler over rust is a no - no. ...

cut it , get rid of the shizy, and do it the right way. how ya do it, is ur choice. but the majority of americans will tell ya, replace the metal with metal.

crazycrocket

I find your method interesting, and I also wonder if "Bondo" is so crappy, why is it that its probably the most popular name and I have seen the stuff last when done right.

Its not so much about the method/brand you use. Now there is alot of science going into these products that the average person could not even begin to figure out. Point is...... use a method and do it right. Whether it be replacing the metal and using body filler to smooth the seam, or if you even wanna convert your whole car to fiberglass. Just make sure you do it right so you aren't doing over again 5,10 years from now,

fattdaddy

Bondo like any other product fell off when they started to mass produce it thats why you see it all over!

Token

bondo is not to get wet. it absorbs water and oil and traps it.

fattdaddy

Who told you that? You have to get it wet to wet sand it so you can get the edge even. Oil you do not want to get on the body anyway!

dbock03

fattdaddy, I do not know where you are getting your info, but I would have to disagree with just about everything you've said.

as far as the person that started this forum? Where do you live? Get me your car and your spare quarter and I'll get it done for you, right. I can do it for probably about $1500. I know you are on a short budget, but I'd hate to see you have a crappy looking car when you are done. I'm cheap too, but there comes a time when you need to spend money and do something the right way, this is one of those times.

fattdaddy

Well I get my info from My three years of experance and my uncles 20 years (shh he owns his own paint and body shop) so you can disagree all you want I just trying too help and educate people on this stuff that most of you don't have a clue about!

dbock03

I dont want to get into an argument with anybody. That is not what these forums are about, and I see too many of them going that way. I just dont want to see a good car turn out like crap becuase too many corners were cut.

Here is my recommendation on the whole issue. If somebody wants to argue with me, fine, but trust me, I know what I'm talking about. So here it goes. Cut all of the rust out of your quarter, going a little farther than needed to make sure you get it all. Borrow or rent a flanger, flange the quarter on the car. Take your spare quarter that you have, cut it to fit in your flanged area. Go to your auto body supply store and buy some panel bond. This stuff works, trust me. It is usually stronger than a weld plus it is a lot cleaner, no grinding or worring about warping the metal from heat. After that is done, put a SKIM layer of bondo over the area, since that is all it is for, just to make any imperfections smooth.

Like I said before, if somebody wants to argue with me, let them, but I do know what I'm talking about.

crazycrocket

Uhh I dont know of too many people who wetsand bondo and other fillers, generally you do not need to wetsand this, normal sanding works fine, you can get it very close with bondo then when you use your primer/surfacer layered different colors you completely remove the low spots by sanding with a finer paper.

stalin05

Yes your right, you do get rid of the smaller spots with finer paper, BUT, with wet sanding you get a smoother finish. Just like what im doing now, i dont get nearly the result with just sanding as i do with wet sanding the bondo.

fattdaddy

When you use water with sandpaper(aka wetsanding) you increase the efficiency of the the fine grit paper because it keeps it clean! Listen if you want to learn how to do this stuff then go to school but I don't go down to wendy's and ask you how the burgers are made so don't question what I do!

crazycrocket

You dont think I know this? I'm wondering why the hell you would even take the time to wetsand it when you can get a perfectly straight body without wetsanding the bondo. Not many body shops I have seen wetsand the bondo and I've seen some very nice jobs done this way.

Oh and thanks for the wendys comment, real nice to see mature members on this board.

fattdaddy

Thats fine I'm telling you this is what I do for a living so I know what I'm talking about dude! And if somebody else does it a differnt way thats fine to I'm just stating what I have learned and use to get the best out of my body work. And the wendy's thing it was pretty funny though you have to admit!

Dizturbed One

I'd just like to point out the most obvious thing in the world that has not been said in here...

It is easier to learn how to weld and get a good weld down than it is to learn how to properly use filler for an extensive job.

As long as you don't weld too hot and burn through the metal, you're ok.

Don't worry about it looking ugly, the welds will be ground flat anyways...

THEN you can use filler as it should be used... SPARINGLY and just enough to get you nice and smooth... It's much easier to clean up a weld and smooth it over with filler than it is to properly fill an area with filler and shape it right.

I promise you it will not turn out satifsfactory until you have put ALOT of time into it when you could have learned to lay down a bead of weld in less than a quarter of that time...

Then you will also know another skill that is invaluable in car repair.

And no, I'm not a tech, and I'm not a body guy... But I can weld decent enough, and all it took was an hour of reading and a couple more hours of playing around with a welder on an old fender.

I've never seen anyone do ANY sort of filler job in 3 hours the first time they've ever touched the stuff...

Dizturbed One

not trying to argue

but i'd like to see some backup to the statement that any sort of panel bonding material is stronger than a weld...

When a weld is done right then it is stronger than the metal around it. (as far as any sort of sheet metal goes)

I've never seen ANY sort of glue able to do that...

But then again, I am rather ignorant when it comes to bodywork and such... I just happen to know a bit about metal and welding (dad has been a sheetmetal worker for about 25 years now, and though I never really did any of his sort of work, you tend to hear alot of stuff when you live with it your whole life)

dbock03

To demonstrate the strength of panel bond, we glued two pieces of sheet metal together, then hooked the one piece to two arms of the frame rack. The sheet metal tore apart, but not anywhere near where it was glued, the glue held strong.

Personally, I do not believe in the glue, but thats because I learned how to weld before I learned how to panel bond. But for somebody who doesnt have a welder, or even know how to weld, it is the way to go. Like I said before, trust me, I will not lie to anyone, its not my nature.

crazycrocket

I know alot of body shops are doing the panel bonding thing now, but I've always wondered how well does this stuff hold up to repeated temperature change? Alot of you in the states wouldn't have to think about it too much but here in canada when we have days in spring and fall that can be + 15 or 20 celcius and overnight it drops to below 0, I've always wondered does the expansion of the metal affect the bonding of the panel glue. MAybe its a stupid question.

As far as the whole panel bonding thing, if I could weld it I would do it that way, but thats because its the way I learned.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

I love it when people fight in the internet!

84RIceEater

Cute ISN'T it....

jay92,85,79

iTrader: (1)

Well I'll add my 2 cents. Since I see some other techs in here talking. Only place I use glue is on the wheel houses it seals them up real nice. Any were else to me is a no no. I saw test to were they glued the rockers. And yes the glue was stronger. But thats on a frame rack with starting for 0 pounds of pressure
up to when ever it pulls apart. When u get hit its alot differnt. Theres alot of differnt ways to to bodywork just cuz someone does it differnt don't mean they are wrong. As long as it comes out looking good and will stand the test of time. I have been doing bodywork going on 11 years. I have worked with alot of differnt guys. Not one of us has done it the same way.

But back to the main post only way to get rid of all the rust is cut off the 1/4 . Theres prob rust starting on the well house to. so sand blast that or replace. Weld the new one on ,fill any were that needs it, prim, and paint.

The cheap way cut as much as the rust out as u can. Get a rust converter. Use some dura glass, tiger hairs, ect ect. Than filler prime and paint.. U might get lucky might last while. But might rust again but worse.


But how i look at it either way its going to cost u. Might as well do right the first time.