ponusa

So we are talking about 80.00 more. I will buy one,experiment,and take pictures and post them. I h ae a 1991 TA conv that I don't drive that much!

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

my buddy had the same problem so I dunno. He retapped his threads and its fine now

BadaPwned

The trans lines werent an issue for me since I have a separate trans cooler, cant give any opinion on it.

I did want to mention that these rads are made by Champion, there are several sellers on ebay or who sell this exact rad. I bought mine from a seller called LeadFoot Racing. Just find the correct model # rad and find it on ebay from the cheapest / best seller.

Also, my 84 TA has a different mount then the other guys picture, plus I have the fan shroud etc....

When I get home I will take some pics of the installed rad and post them.

Good idea with making this a sticky. Should help many people for years to come.....

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

thats what I was going for

gurkgurkgurk

wow, that looks like a good radiator, ill probably buy one when i drop the 383 into my iroc. currently i have some 100 something dollar stock radiator from some website a member referred me to. it fits alittle tall, but looks as ugly as sin because of the plastic tubs

5.0 Eater

iTrader: (2)

I'm starting a 489/496 BBC build and I know I'll need a more efficient cooling system. This rad might be the key.

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

ok so I got my second fan wired in now. I leave it on when the AC is on, and even idling in 90* heat with the air on my car sits at about 185*

Reid Fleming

iTrader: (2)

That would be the deal maker for me.

BadaPwned

Ok guys, heres a little more info on these rads....

I spoke to the guys at Champion Cooling Systems.....

The rads are manufactured in China, (not that this was a surprise).....

They are "designed" by Champion and manufactured by a plant in China that im sure 95% of everyone in the rad business uses....

Please note, I still do believe they are quality rads at a good price. After figuring out that everyone else uses the same manufacture, these rads are probably just as good as anyone else's.....

BUT, there's always a but........

Their claims for cooling 850 HP, 1000 HP etc....are questionable at best...

The guy I spoke to at Champion stated "we have had at least one customer who had X amount of HP and this rad / fan combo cooled it. However we have not, nor do we have a way actually calculating or testing this."

Take these cooling capability claims with a pinch of salt. The rad MAY be up for the job, but the fans / shroud etc etc setup that they claim can cool as much HP is probably far from true.

After further research, its a known fact that a stock SBC needs at least 2500 CFM if not 3000 CFM of airflow through the rad to stay cool. A BBC needs at least 4000 CFM to stay cool (numbers provided my perma-cool). If you look on their advertisements, they claim 2800 CFM can cool 1000 HP. Im telling you from my own personal experience this is not true. I have a dyno tested 400 to 450 HP SBC and their 2800 CFM was not enough air. Even Champion said I did not have enough airflow.

Conclusion: If your looking for a quality rad at an affordable price, buy this rad. However, I completely recommend you going with your own fan setup if you have more then a stock motor.

I have not received my new fans yet but I will let you know how it goes....Good luck guys...

gregsz-28

iTrader: (1)

for the good info!

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

good info!

I have a pretty stout motor in my car (420ish HP), with the stock dual fans and it seems to cool just fine, even with the AC running. You may not even need some super uber-fans!

84 z28

I bought this radiator and installed it on Tuesday. Not only did it drop my temps about 30 degrees but I am still using the stock mech fan with it and I cant get over 180. The radiator is a perfect fit if you just take out the rubber pieces the radiator sits on. My motor is a built 355 with 400hp.

BadaPwned

You have a mechanical fan?

84 z28

Yes the stock clutch fan

BadaPwned

Ahh, ya, you lucked out lol....mech. fans are suppose to pull a good amount of air....at least that's what I have been told lol.....

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

they also sap a good amount of power too

84 z28

Not really. And if your worried about the 5hp you got issues.

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

Here is a link stating 15-20rwhp gains going to electric
http://www.fordf150.net/reviews/show...roduct/4/cat/6

Heres a popular kit for Trailblazer SS guys. 12-18rwhp gains
http://www.pcmforless.com/index.php?...d=74&Itemid=81

Here is a post by "DjD" showing how different mechanical fans can sap up around 50RWHP!!
http://www.camaros.net/forums/archiv...p/t-52811.html

Here is another kit for sale where their results were 15-20rwhp
http://www.troyerperformance.com/cgi...alogno=PPI-EFK

This was found in 2 minutes on google. I'm sure I can find more.

Reid Fleming

iTrader: (2)

I've heard that electric water pumps wear out quicker than non electric.

I H8 WWD

iTrader: (5)

Also note guys, that Mechanical fans put unwanted stress on water pump shafts, and if a shaft blows and that fan goes flying into the radiator and other misc engine parts....big time trouble.

Also, electric fans do help gain that little bit of power (unsure its 15-20, meaning more than headers intake and exhaust for my car), but TEHO believing, but really only if your electrical can handle it.

Ex: I had a Z31 at one point and it comes with a 70A alternator, so when going to a e-fan we had to swap out alternators to a 90A so the car would have enough power to run everything else, plus the new e-fan setup, without taking e-power from your ignition or lights and such. Without a good electrical system an e-fan can start robbing you of power. If your ignition can't run at full power you won't get a full spark and will start going to the crapper with bad mpg and fuel burning. I do believe that we don't have to worry about that though, but it is something to keep in mind.

I like push fans placed in front of the radiator to get that little bit more room in the engine bay. Always use a fan shroud.

-Take care

84 z28

I'm glad your googleing and copy and pasting links from the internet.Just to add to all of the BS, I also have a K&N air filter on my car good for 40hp and some racing stickers good for 10hp each.

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

I dunno, maybe you're trying to get me on a technicality that those numbers aren't off a 3rdgen, but lets get real. The trailblazer kit has dyno numbers from a guy that dyno tunes cars. The other link that shows up to a 50hp draw is dyno numbers from CAR CRAFT MAGAZINE. Not only did they do a electric vs. clutch fan dyno run,they did 10 TIMES to show how different clutch fans suck up different amounts of power. You act like I'm making this stuff up, but you can't get much better evidence than actual dyno numbers. You seem to be one of those people that are just set in their ways and cant have their minds changed.

Oh wait, no...its because you have a clutch fan and want to defend it.

Facts are facts.

84 z28

Whatever you say. I dont care what your google links say and what sales pitch they give you from "dyno numbers". A fan isnt sucking up 50hp. And btw I do run a clutch fan and I have a dual electric fan setup in my garage i'm just too lazy to wire it so there goes your grand idea about my opinion. If you give my a ton of freebees to test and sponser my magazine i will tell "X" fan is the best till im blue in the face.

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

OK thats it. If you cant beat em,join em! Wheres the best place for me to get a clutch fan?!??!

84 z28

I tell ya what. Electric is better than my clutch fan and does free up "HP" just not as much as everyone claims. So we both win

twolfe

iTrader: (2)

Good information on the Radiators. I need a new one anyways. Glad champion helped out..


Oh I put the fan on backwards, and I picked up nearly 50hp on the dyno!!

y84pauloflondon

I got a 87 GTA 5.7 I've looked into getting a rad for my car. I've already put in a 160* hypertech switch, complete rad flush, added water wetter, and rewired my secondary fan to a manual On and Off switch. Car run mush cooler then before.....Not cool enough....Justin89formy, is your setup pretty much the same, minus the rad????

y84pauloflondon

So Justin87fromy I tried your link for e-bay and i couldn't find anything for 3rd gens. BUT I did find for the SAME price you mentioned, Champion Rad for an 87 PONTIAC FIERO...V8 FIEROS...? Is the rad you got????? Is this just a mistake on there (e-bay) part?

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

I run a 195 t-stat. YOu pobably shouldnt run lowe than a 180 t stat in an efi car.

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

Also, I updated the intial post with a direct link to the ebay sellers store. If you can find Fiero in his store, you should be able to find Firebird too. Its there, I just saw it.

y84pauloflondon

attually I think i have a 160* t stat right now!

y84pauloflondon

I found the new link thankx but i'm still not finding anything for the 82-91 3rd gens........(fieros never came w/V8s) that's why I think its a typo..... is your champion rad part # CC828?

y84pauloflondon

yeap... i can't find any rads... but there are 2 different prices for "Fiero V8 rads" One is for $204.95 and the other is for $214.95 which is what i think you ordered... I just need the manu. part #!.....thankx

y84pauloflondon

84 z28 did you get the same rad from champion as did justin89formy? And how did it fit? Others guys had mentioned that direct fit rads from summit and other places needed to be cut and modified. How much cutting/modifing was needed to make these other rads fit?

84 z28

I did get the same radiator as justin89formy. Alot of guys on ebay sell the champion radiator for our cars just at different prices. I just looked on ebay and looks like everyone is out of stock for the 82-92 3 row aluminum radiators. I bought mine from koolradiatorscoolingsystems for $200 and $25 shipping. The only thing I had to do was remove the rubber pieces that held the old radiator and put some dense foam double sided tape on the bottom part of the radiator so there wasnt metal to metal contact.For have the price of a be cool radiator and cools just as well I cant complain.

84 z28

These radiators come plumbed for automatics all you need to do is plug the holes your not going to use.

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

Look again, its there. Obviously a Fiero radiator wont fit, but there is a category for firebird radiators, I saw it with my own 2 eyes last night. Also, the reason this post was made was to give hints on what needs to be done to install this radiator. I would read this entire post again and take note of what everyone is saying about the installation.

The answers to all your questions have been covered in this post you just have to READ it.

454scotty454

Guys,
I know this thread is about a three core aluminum radiator, but a know of another excellent radiator. It is made by alumitech reproductions. They are hand build here in the good ol USA! They are not epoxied like some radiators. They are fully tig welded. I powdercoated mine black (for stock & stealth look)and if it were epoxied it would have fallen apart in the oven. I know it is pricey but I have one for my bb chevelle and it is the best radiator I've owned. I don't have the third gen radiator from them personally so I cannot comment on fitment, but my chevelle radiator is by far the best built, best fitting, best cooling radiator I have owned. I do not work for them and I am not getting paid to say this, just figured I would throw this in there for people to check out.
Thanks
scott

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

do they even make one for a 3rdgen? If not, your post sucks lol

454scotty454

open your eyes Camaro 3rd generation 82-92 DPI#951/1861 $525
Looks like they do
And I know it is better than that imported junk!

arrowcamaro

iTrader: (2)

This is about the 3 core rad posted, not about the company you spam for.

Justin89Formy

iTrader: (26)

$525?! Get that crap outta here, thats almost double the price of what this entire thread is about.

y84pauloflondon

Actually I have been reading this INTIRE THREAD....and justin, your the only one that I think of that mentioned what the cuts/mods were for your car(rubber), everone else just mentioned cut/mods, and not what they actually were. And Thankx to 84 z28 for your post!!! for taking the time to explain. Seems that you tried to look for me aswell... I'VE tried your link Justin LAST NIGHT.... I see the category for firebirds but for all the 70's birds... Nothing comes up for ...87 firebirds or even a category for 82-92 firebirds just like 84 z28 said, NOTHING. I'll just keep trying to look for those rads in other places. Thankx guys...p.s my eyes work just fine, but the web...lol

y84pauloflondon

hey, i've made SOME small progress, Reliable Rad ARE showing that they are OUT of stock as of JULY 10 at 1:30 am et. That's why there was no CATEGORY before when I checked the first several times in the last couple of days. But I think I now have the part# CC 951, can anyone tell if this is the right part # for the 82-92 firebirds?

84 z28

I found a champion radiator on ebay thats the same as mine just someone else selling it. here the link:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ALL-A...Q5fAccessories

I dont remeber a part number when ordering but I know its the same radiator. For some reason everyone that sells a champion radiator is out of stock for 82-92 camaros. Just keep an I out cause I paid $20 less from the place i mentioned.

y84pauloflondon

Re: 84 z28.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, Thank you very much..... Paul

jimcairns

What have you used for the rubber isolators? I went from a stock v6 to a Griffin and the isolators don't really fit properly. I go the radiator mounted, but a buddy of mine who used to work in a Radiator shop says I would have had problems in a few thousand miles due to improper mounting. Any ideas?

BadaPwned

Buy some 1/8" thick neoprene or rubber. Stick it under the rad.

I completely took my isolators out. But, the durability thing isn't really an issue for me, the car gets maybe 500 miles a year.

84 z28

I did the same thing and I only drive about 1000 miles a year . I its a daily driver you might want to see if you can shave the rubber mounts down so the raditor will fit.

visionpb16

I bought this radiator a little while ago cause my car was running around 220* (I live in Tucson, Az and at the time it wasn't even getting hot outside yet) and put a 160* thermostat in and it took a really long time to get to temperature but it kept going all the to like 240* and so I shut it off. I put the stock thermostat 195* back in and my car will not get above 195, even at idle when my intake temperatures where like 115*. I think the stock thermostat is best, cause a 160* thermostat is almost always open so it doesnt get much time for the fluid to cool in the radiator. Now when my car is running I can even tell when the thermostat opens cause it will drop atleast 15* in temperature. But i did have problems with the tranny lines like everyone else so I bought an external cooler, which I wanted anyway cause I have a higher stall torque converter.